McKenzie: Arizona looking for established young players for Hanzal (mod)

[rt]

Hanzal is a pure rental and nothing more. If we're to give up anything of value, I'd look elsewhere and make a hockey trade for a player with term.

I'd pass also.

Have you seen the passing of many deadlines? I'm not trying to be patronizing, I'm trying to better understand your perspective.

 

[Homesick]

That kid down in ARI is spending way too much time looking at spread sheets.

 

[Homesick]

Have you seen the passing of many deadlines? I'm not trying to be patronizing, I'm trying to better understand your perspective.

What does an injury prone 3C worth? His two way game just hasn't been as good in the past 2 years

 

[rt]

That kid down in ARI is spending way too much time looking at spread sheets.

Probably a customized Tableau filled with data collected by a whole team of professionals.

 

[hockeyheadlines]

Have you seen the passing of many deadlines? I'm not trying to be patronizing, I'm trying to better understand your perspective.

This is the way I see it. If the asking price is for an established player (considering Hanzal is a rental), I'd pass. Certainly not because he's of no value.

Hanzal is going to want to test free agency and I don't blame him, so we lose him after the season (he could even return to Arizona).

I think we need a hockey trade more than anything else. Center depth is awful.

 

[AZviaNJ]

Probably a customized Tableau filled with data collected by a whole team of professionals.

Yup, that silly kid who started Statletes at age 19, now a multi-million dollar company used by multiple NHL teams and impressed investors like Mark Cuban to drop $1.7m of seed money into it.

Spreadsheets, ok.....

 

[rt]

This is the way I see it. If the asking price is for an established player (considering Hanzal is a rental), I'd pass. Certainly not because he's of no value.

Hanzal is going to want to test free agency and I don't blame him, so we lose him after the season (he could even return to Arizona).

I think we need a hockey trade more than anything else. Center depth is awful.

I guess I'm trying to understand the extent of your exposure to typical deadline events? Over the last half decade, or so? Rentals are pretty popular and usually lots of value is sacrificed for them. It's the standard.

 

[hockeyheadlines]

I guess I'm trying to understand the extent of your exposure to typical deadline events? Over the last half decade, or so? Rentals are pretty popular and usually lots of value is sacrificed for them. It's the standard.

Well, recently you traded Vermette to Chicago for a first and Klas Dahlbeck. It turned out well for Chicago that year. Basically, you got a pick plus a B prospect in return.

It doesn't always have to be established players.

 

[Kaibur]

Well, recently you traded Vermette to Chicago for a first and Klas Dahlbeck. It turned out well for Chicago that year. Basically, you got a pick plus a B prospect in return.

It doesn't always have to be established players.

I would definitely take a center that's on the cusp of breaking into the NHL the way that Dahlbeck was at that deadline. He had only played a few NHL games, but had a lot of AHL development time. He came in and played the last 20 games and looked pretty good. If we could find a similar deal this deadline, but with a center as the near-full time NHL player, that would be a good fit for us.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Well, recently you traded Vermette to Chicago for a first and Klas Dahlbeck. It turned out well for Chicago that year. Basically, you got a pick plus a B prospect in return.

It doesn't always have to be established players.

And Hanzal is better than Vermette. So we'll get more than a Dahlbeck coming back if we do end up settling for the standard pick + propsect deal. Which is likely.

I think the 1st+Dano deal for Ladd is close in terms of what we could get for Hanzal.

 

[Lebowski]

And Hanzal is better than Vermette. So we'll get more than a Dahlbeck coming back if we do end up settling for the standard pick + propsect deal. Which is likely.

I think the 1st+Dano deal for Ladd is close in terms of what we could get for Hanzal.

Ladd was an established 1st liner and a team captain.

Hanzal is an often injured middle six center, to be polite. Someone might overpay due to his size, which is a valuable trait. But he's not in the same tier of player as Ladd at the time that trade was made. He's a lot closer to Vermette, both role wise and number wise.

 

[McSuper]

Chill dude... I'm not even a habs fan and on more than one occasions since last summer McKenzie have stated stuff that left be a bit puzzled...

the las one was "He (Jagr) could be seen as the 3rd best forward to ever play the game"

Agree

Gretzky
Lemieux
Jagr

So where the problem ?

 

[McSuper]

Have you seen the passing of many deadlines? I'm not trying to be patronizing, I'm trying to better understand your perspective.

Cup contenders do overpay around the trade deadline to make a cup run . But most of those players resign . Then this year you have an expansion draft and teams are already going to lose a player which makes giving up a young cost controlled player less likely .

Hanzal will probably be trade for a 2nd RD pick and a lessor prospect . It is my prediction are on the above factors

 

[Lebowski]

Agree

Gretzky
Lemieux
Jagr

So where the problem ?

Yeah, the guy will retire with the second most points of all-time while pissing away some productive seasons playing in Russia.

I mean, the guy could realistically be sitting at 2200 career points right now. I'm not one of those people that consider Howe to be in Lemieux's tier, let alone in front of him. To me the 3rd best forward of all time is very attainable for someone like Jagr.

 

[rt]

Well, recently you traded Vermette to Chicago for a first and Klas Dahlbeck. It turned out well for Chicago that year. Basically, you got a pick plus a B prospect in return.

It doesn't always have to be established players.

And Boston wouldn't have any interest in a half price Hanzal for a guy like Spooner? Or San Jose in a half price Hanzal for Tierney? Or Detroit in a half price Hanzal for somebody like Sheahan? This are younger and somewhat established NHL "centers" that would technically check the boxes that Arizona is rumored to be looking for and also might not be pieces who's values vastly exceed a half price Hanzal to a team look to wins cup right now this summer.

 

[hockeyheadlines]

Cup contenders do overpay around the trade deadline to make a cup run . But most of those players resign . Then this year you have an expansion draft and teams are already going to lose a player which makes giving up a young cost controlled player less likely .

Hanzal will probably be trade for a 2nd RD pick and a lessor prospect . It is my prediction are on the above factors

This would also be my prediction.

 

[rt]

Cup contenders do overpay around the trade deadline to make a cup run . But most of those players resign . Then this year you have an expansion draft and teams are already going to lose a player which makes giving up a young cost controlled player less likely .

Hanzal will probably be trade for a 2nd RD pick and a lessor prospect . It is my prediction are on the above factors

Guys don't always re-sign with their teams before the end of the first week of July.

 

[rt]

This would also be my prediction.

He's going to return better than the equivalent of a late 2nd and fairly meaningless prospect (relative to Arizona's existing prospect pool) if he stays healthy between now and the day he's traded. I have no doubt about that.

He's a much more special player than someone like Vermette who was mentioned earlier. Hanzal brings a truly unique blend of skills to a playoff team. Not only is he huge but he's mean as ****. Not only is he a good passer and playmaker, but he's also a great net-front presence. He's excellent both at maintaining possession in the offensive zone and also at winning face-offs. He's also been very effective at shutting down other top centers. There aren't other players like this. Of course he's got warts. He can be inconsistent and his injury troubles are very real and very well documented. But in terms of potential impact on a playoff run, he absolutely blows a guy like Vermette(a couple of years ago) out of the water.

What will he return if heathy? At least the equivalent of a late first.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Cup contenders do overpay around the trade deadline to make a cup run . But most of those players resign . Then this year you have an expansion draft and teams are already going to lose a player which makes giving up a young cost controlled player less likely .

Hanzal will probably be trade for a 2nd RD pick and a lessor prospect . It is my prediction are on the above factors

Most don't... I don't think anyone resigned last year.

Teams know they're paying for a rental, and every season teams dish out 1sts. Franson, Sekera, Vermette, Ladd... And others like Polak and Staal went for multiple 2nds. And other bottom 6, bottom pairing guys have went for 2nds before too.

Thinking Hanzal is only going to go for a 2nd and mediocre prospect just doesn't make sense.

 

[hockeyheadlines]

He's going to return better than the equivalent of a late 2nd and fairly meaningless prospect (relative to Arizona's existing prospect pool) if he stays healthy between now and the day he's traded. I have no doubt about that.

He's a much more special player than someone like Vermette who was mentioned earlier. Hanzal brings a truly unique blend of skills to a playoff team. Not only is he huge but he's mean as ****. Not only is he a good passer and playmaker, but he's also a great net-front presence. He's excellent both at maintaining possession in the offensive zone and also at winning face-offs. He's also been very effective at shutting down other top centers. There aren't other players like this. Of course he's got warts. He can be inconsistent and his injury troubles are very real and very well documented. But in terms of potential impact on a playoff run, he absolutely blows a guy like Vermette(a couple of years ago) out of the water.

What will he return if heathy? At least the equivalent of a late first.

I think that would be reasonable.

 

[rt]

I think that would be reasonable.

And when I hear "established young NHL center" my mind doesn't immediately leap to a player who's value far exceeds that of a later 1st. I think about a guy like Spooner or maybe Tierney or someone like that.

 

[Seachd]

All of those are decent young players. They've got warts. So does Hanzal.

Everyone does. If those are the options, why wouldn't he rather have picks?

 

[rt]

Everyone does. If those are the options, why wouldn't he rather have picks?

The Coyotes have to bridge the gap. We're fasting approaching a time when we not only had to move on from our Hanzal, Boedker, Yandle rebuild core but we're going to have to start moving on from the OELs Murphys of the world, and that's just not acceptable. We have to become a passable NHL product before Domi and Duclair end up as deadline bait in a few years. The backslide has to be stopped as soon as possible.

Stockpiling picks is no longer a viable option for he franchise. I think we need to trade the picks we do have. The pool we've accumulated to this point will have to be enough. Obviously supplementation is required. Supplementation via UFAs like Goligoski and trades like Spooner/Tierney and hopefully bigger trades like a top five pick and some other assets for other youngish help like Stepan or Duchene.

The Coyotes aren't a team who's starting their rebuild. The Coyotes are team who's rebuild is failing. Again.

 

[Stuzchuk]

Agree

Gretzky
Lemieux
Jagr

So where the problem ?

eeeee.... Howe, by a mile (Belliveau, Hull Sr, Richard, Esposito)!

 

[Palmer2Fitz]

I think that would be reasonable.

Do you honestly think no team will outbid that at the deadline for a 6"6 center that can matchup against the best centers in hockey? Hanzals value is much different for a playoff stretch then it is in free agency. To some teams he might even have more value as a rental then he would with a long expensive contract. Hanzal is exactly what conetenders are dying to add for a cup run. Luckily for the Coyotes, Hanzals value is worth far more to gms trying to win this year then posters who judge his value based on point totals.