Confirmed Trade: [ARI/CHI] Hossa, Hinostroza, Oesterle, 2019 3rd for Kruger, Entwistle, Maletta, Campbell, 2019 5th

[Sergei Shirokov]

Benning: "ThErE ArE nO CaP DuMp DeAlS AvAiLaIbLe"

Why on earth would we have wanted to make this trade?

Take on 5+ mill for 3 years just to add a bottom 6 W & a bottom pair/depth D when we already have a logjam in both those areas. This would have been a terrible deal for the Canucks.

 

[me2]

So your theory is that the Blackhawks and the National Hockey League (for reasons only you know I suppose) conspired together to defraud an insurance company who, in turn, hired an incompetent doctor to verify the claim even though millions of dollars hung in the balance?

That's your theory?

Are you serious with this?

Insurance Fraud | Chicago Criminal Defense Lawyer David L. Freidberg

Punishment for Insurance Fraud in Illinois

Insurance fraud is punished by the value of the property obtained or attempted to be obtained from the insurance company. If you defraud or attempt to defraud the insurance company of $300 or less, it is a class A misdemeanor, punishable by up to one year in jail and a fine of $2,500. Fraud between $300 and $10,000 is a Class 3 felony, punishable by a minimum of two years in prison and up to five years, along with a fine of up to $25,000. If the insurance fraud exceeds $100,000, it is a Class 1 felony. Class 1 felonies are serious offenses, punished by a minimum of four years in prison and a maximum of 15, along with fines of up to $25,000.

I'm sure everyone from Bettman to the doctors to Hawk's management and staff to Hosea really want to get in on some of that class 1 felony action. Makes no sense.

 

[me2]

I don't understand why people hate on Chyaka for these cap moves. He's making the most of what he has and has obtained a ton of assets now without really giving anything up. Sure it's not some high 1st rounder but I don't think teams are giving that up to take on cap.

A lot of people aren't judging these moves correctly. Arizona is a money starved franchise, they need to pick their cap trades carefully. It would hurt Arizona more to take a $3m cap/$2m salary player (Kruger) more than it would hurt them to take $5m cap/$200k player. Arizona is all about bang for the buck on these trades. Chicago paid Arizona $2m (eating Kruger's salary) + hinostroza + Oesterle to take $600k (Hossa's) in debt off their hands. From Arizona's PoV they just made money and got paid for making it, and solved any future cap floor problems. People just need to look at the $$$/return ratio to see how Arizona works, how it has to work.


From Chicago's PoV they just gained a bunch of cap, for them the cash is the price of business and they can afford it. They could even look to move Kruger to someone like (Van, Min etc) that can afford cap and cash. Rich teams can charge more than Arizona for their cap space because they can take cash hits along with it. I can't see Arizona being able to Callahan ($4.7m/y real money iirc), a rich team with cap can exploit contracts like that.

GM's like Jim Benning should be ringing up Chicago and seeing what they will give up to make Kruger's cap hit to away. They should be looking to offer to retrain in 3-ways (ala Vegas at the deadline). "Don't have enough cap room for Karlsson, how about it we eat 50%?"

From Arizona's PoV this trade is winner.

 

[TheLegend]

They should rename the team to the Arizona Cleaners, because they are really good at cleaning up other teams' dead bodies.

Lots of room out here in the desert...

 

[rt]

Lots of room out here in the desert...

Lotsa holes predug, yadig?

 

[GeeoffBrown]

Arizona building one hell of a HUT lineup

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

Well it all just seems really convenient for everyone involved but if that's the story and people believe it that is their right.

Yeah losing a guy who scored 26 goals in 73 games while playing great defense and mentoring their young players was super convenient for the Hawks. It really worked out great for them last season!

 

[pokey10]

Arizona building one hell of a HUT lineup

If this was 2010, yes.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

It wasn't sudden. He had been dealing with the condition for years, but it got worse over time. Like it did for Tom Reid.

The Gunk: a Virulent Oozing Rash

Thanks for posting this info. Its something I have wondered about in the past.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

This is an interesting thread.

The Coyotes were already above the cap floor. This was not a cap floor trade. They simply have excess cap space. They used it to acquire an asset (Hinostroza) and some depth (Oesterle).

There are fans from other teams (Ottawa, Vancouver, Montreal) with an excess of cap space showing up to lament the inability of their own GMs to capitalize in the same way.

Then there are fans from other teams (Toronto, Edmonton) showing up to lament the existence of the Coyotes because they dared to utilize excess cap room to gain an asset and some depth. Citing the lack of success of the team as proof that they should be oustered from the league altogether. Ironically, the last six years have gone roughly the same for those teams as they have for the Coyotes in terms of results on the ice.

There are even fans of indeterminate loyalty showing up who are just extremely confused by what any of this means and are expressing this confusion with anger.

This has been a very fun little slice of the internet right here. Thanks to everyone for bringing their unique views to this thread. It’s been a pleasure so far.

Interesting thoughts about the various different perspectives wrapped in a jacket of objectivity. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Jay haller]

Wait, so YOU guys actually think that the year his salary goes from 4 mil to 1 mil, and he is 38 years old, that he says he has an "allergy" to equipment he has been wearing since he was four years old is legit?

p.s. Insurance fraud happens all the time every day and really isn't super hard to pull off.

It’s more legit than lupul’s Hip injury that was so bad he couldn’t play hockey but could easily snowboard

 

[rt]

Interesting thoughts about the various different perspectives wrapped in a jacket of objectivity. Thanks for sharing.

That’s bit stealing. You stole my bit.

 

[Seanaconda]

Insurance Fraud | Chicago Criminal Defense Lawyer David L. Freidberg




I'm sure everyone from Bettman to the doctors to Hawk's management and staff to Hosea really want to get in on some of that class 1 felony action. Makes no sense.

.no reason to even use hossa as one of your insured players when he's only making a million. Pretty sure the nhls insurance deal is they choose the ten highest paid guys per year or something is Hossa even covered

 

[azcanuck]

For once I'd like Arizona to get something more than peanuts for accepting these deals.

They barely got anything for eating the Datsyuk contract.

they were able to move up and get Jeff Chychrun. The kid is good and will get better.

 

[hbk]

.no reason to even use hossa as one of your insured players when he's only making a million. Pretty sure the nhls insurance deal is they choose the ten highest paid guys per year or something is Hossa even covered

Hossa's deal costs AZ $200K/year ($600K total). 80% insured. They saved more than that on the contracts given up in the deal. AZ walks out of this with improving roster, improving a draft pick, and reducing actual expenses.

 

[voyageur]

It's embarassing that there is a franchise operated and financed arms length that is just a place to dump contracts, and d&d forever. The NHL head office wants to be sure that this team never makes the playoffs, as it takes revenue from the franchise's that are subsidizing it. Meanwhile there is a brand new arena in Quebec City and an ownership group willing to buy in. Winnipeg, a city of the same size. the franchise that went to the desert, before getting a 2nd life, just had street parties all spring, bringing passion to the sport. The great Berlin Wall of the Eastern time zone, East of Eden, however, keeps hockey in the desert so that insurance companies can pay its players after their career. Hossa's salary is more than the Coyotes equity payments so I guess it's fair game.

 

[93LEAFS]

they were able to move up and get Jeff Chychrun. The kid is good and will get better.

Jakub Chychrun, Jeff is his dad.

 

[Alberta Yote]

It's embarassing that there is a franchise operated and financed arms length that is just a place to dump contracts, and d&d forever. The NHL head office wants to be sure that this team never makes the playoffs, as it takes revenue from the franchise's that are subsidizing it. Meanwhile there is a brand new arena in Quebec City and an ownership group willing to buy in. Winnipeg, a city of the same size. the franchise that went to the desert, before getting a 2nd life, just had street parties all spring, bringing passion to the sport. The great Berlin Wall of the Eastern time zone, East of Eden, however, keeps hockey in the desert so that insurance companies can pay its players after their career. Hossa's salary is more than the Coyotes equity payments so I guess it's fair game.

All I read was blah blah. Can you re-phrase with fewer words please?

 

[Heldig]

It's embarassing that there is a franchise operated and financed arms length that is just a place to dump contracts, and d&d forever. The NHL head office wants to be sure that this team never makes the playoffs, as it takes revenue from the franchise's that are subsidizing it. Meanwhile there is a brand new arena in Quebec City and an ownership group willing to buy in. Winnipeg, a city of the same size. the franchise that went to the desert, before getting a 2nd life, just had street parties all spring, bringing passion to the sport. The great Berlin Wall of the Eastern time zone, East of Eden, however, keeps hockey in the desert so that insurance companies can pay its players after their career. Hossa's salary is more than the Coyotes equity payments so I guess it's fair game.

The Jets just traded a player and picks in order to dump a contract. If it is ok to dump salary then it is ok to be the team getting paid in picks/prospects to take on a contract, no?

 

[voyageur]

The Jets traded cap space in value for buyout against future cap space. That's the product of drafting good players. Arizona is a place where retired NHL players collect insurance money and the team can get over the cap floor with dead cap space as it can not maintain current operating costs. Apples and oranges my friend.

 

[voyageur]

All I read was blah blah. Can you re-phrase with fewer words please?

Nope it's the truth. As written.

 

[Price is Wright]

Meanwhile there is a brand new arena in Quebec City

If I lived in Quebec I would be piping mad about my taxpayer money wasted on a fancy tomb that won't be used by an NHL team. Get angry at the city and province for wasting your money on a wish.

 

[Alberta Yote]

The Jets traded cap space in value for buyout against future cap space. That's the product of drafting good players. Arizona is a place where retired NHL players collect insurance money and the team can get over the cap floor with dead cap space as it can not maintain current operating costs. Apples and oranges my friend.

The Coyotes have never needed a single dead player contract to reach the cap floor. Not once. Look it up. Or better yet just blindly follow the uninformed HF masses.

 

[rt]

If the Coyotes move out of Arizona it’ll be to Houston anyway. I’d prefer Quebec, but all indications are that ain’t happening.

Anyway, this is a trade thread. The Coyotes improved their roster while cutting salary and upgrading a pick. All it cost them was last year’s 3rd. Good job.

 

[hbk]

The Jets traded cap space in value for buyout against future cap space. That's the product of drafting good players. Arizona is a place where retired NHL players collect insurance money and the team can get over the cap floor with dead cap space as it can not maintain current operating costs. Apples and oranges my friend.

AZ has never actually needed the cap hits to reach the cap floor. Not once. They traded cap space they weren’t utilizing as a rebuilding team for assets to improve their roster.