Argument against Neely being in the Hall

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Big Phil, Mar 14, 2005.

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  1. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    Look for starters, I think Cam Neely was a great player. And if healthy he would have been even better. To me I cant understand why its a crime to say he shouldnt be in the Hall. Now I've heard the arguments as to why he should. And I've heard people complain that lesser players are in over him (thats true) but its beside the point.

    This is a great comparison for me to judge him on. If he's SUPPOSED to be in there than why isnt Rick Martin in there? Not saying he should be a legit Hall of Famer but here's my comparison.

    Martin - Played ten seasons
    Neely - Thirteen seasons (a few when he was injured)

    Martin - 384 career goals, 0.56 goals per game.
    Neely - 395 career goals, 0.54 goals per game.

    Martin - 701 career points, 1.02 points per game
    Neely - 694 points, 0.96 points per game

    Martin - Two first team all-star selections, two second team all star selections
    Neely - Four second team all-star selections

    Martin's top goal seasons - 52, 52, 49, 45, 44.
    Neely's top seasons - 55, 51, 50, 42, 37

    So explain this to me. Rick Martin was on one of the best lines of all time (French Connection Line) had a short career and is shafted because of this. Had he played longer in to 80s he'd have had 500 or more goals. But Neely has 4 good seasons and its a crime to say he shouldnt be in the Hall. Neely had a shortened career too, which is hurting him, so why should he get in but Martin shouldnt?

    I know, Neely was more physical and he had that season where he hit 50 goals in 49 games and I love him and have nothing against him. But to me he inst even the most surprising Bruin to never be in the Hall yet IMO, that goes to Rick Middleton.

    Yes Don Cherry loved him, but was he any better than Rick Martin? The numbers say Martin was a better player. Add the fact that Neely was more physical and you have to even players IMO. Both were good players and both played with great players but before you say Neely HAS to be in think of Martin. Not saying Martin should have been a shoo-in but he's no worse off than Neely.
     
  2. ForsbergForever

    ForsbergForever Red Rocket

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    Some qualities a player brings to a team or a game cannot be measured in points or goals per game averages. Yes his horrific injury robbed of the best years of his career, though did not prevent him from scoring 50 goals in 44 games. He was as intense as they come and had an unending desire to win. One thing you did not mention is that the Bruins thought enough og him to retire his number 8, one of only nine players to have been given such an honour by the team in their almost 80 year existance. He was everything an NHL player should aspire to and showed how much he loved the game by playing when others would have retired.
     
  3. revolverjgw

    revolverjgw Registered User

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    Yeah a great case can be made for Martin, who put up those great numbers in a lower scoring era than Neely. And if Neely goes in, Lindros has to make it, too.

    I love Neely, but... geez, there's SO many guys with dented careers that also deserve a long look if he gets in. How about Tim Kerr?
     
  4. both very good players, both miss the hall of fame cut. Neely was a dominant goal scorer, probably would've made the hall had he not gotten hurt. they both fall in the rick vaive/steve thomas category. good but not good enough.

    how about Brian Bellows? hall worthy?
     
  5. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    No I dont think Bellows is. Only once had 50 goals. I agree with the possibility of Tim Kerr though. If Neely gets in so should he. Kerr actually put up bigger and better numbers than Neely season per season.
     
  6. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    As a Flyers fan, there is no way that Kerr should get in before Brian Propp and Mark Howe, the two best players of the mid-80's Flyers (perhaps the best team of all-time to not win a Cup)
     
  7. monkey_00*

    monkey_00* Guest

    The Year the Flyers lost in the Finals to the Edmonton Oilers TIM KERR was on the DL........if he was in their lineup the Flyers would have defeated the Oilers.
     
  8. Wisent

    Wisent Registered User

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    We could throw Clark Gillies out of the Hall, then we wouldn't have this problem. ;)
     
  9. bleedgreen

    bleedgreen Registered User

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    neely doesnt go to the hall of fame? why dont you kick his dog while you're at it.
     
  10. acr*

    acr* Guest

    If you could get into the HoF on Heart alone, Neely would make it, but with the numbers he has compared to a large amount of players who aren't in with similar or better numbers, he's probably not going to get in.

    Neely gets the public support because he's such a sentimental favorite, and the kind of guy everyone wanted on their team. He was a great player, one of the best true power forwards of all time at his peak. He suffered some terrible injuries and fought his way back to the top of the league before finally being unable to continue on after too many of them. And he's just a great human being too, he does so much work for cancer charities and youth hockey, you can't not respect the guy.

    He's probably not going to make it in, but there are reasons why a lot of people support him.
     
  11. reckoning

    reckoning Registered User

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    Here`s the problem that i have with Cam Neely as a person: when he was with the Bruins one year they had some sort of a year end banquet/party and Neely had a few drinks. Anyways Neely steps up onstage and starts a obscenity-laced tirade against Ray Bourque. Why was he mad at Bourque? Because Bourque hadn`t demanded more money from the Bruins or tested the free agent market and was settling for less than he was worth and Sinden was using his salary (as Boston`s best player) as a comparable when negotiating with the players to keep their salaries down. I just think it was totally low-class on Neely`s part. If he wasn`t satisfied with his own contract he should`ve complained to Sinden or his agent; if he truly felt it was Bourque`s fault then he should`ve questioned him about it in private like a man instead of relying on liquid courage and dragging it out in front of the entire team.

    He may have been a great hockey player but he was also a first class jerk (wasn`t there also an incident on an airplane?) Doing charity work is all well and good, but Trevor Linden does a lot of charity work as well and look at the horrible things people have said on here about him over the last few months.

    As far as the Hall of Fame goes: yes, Neely is more deserving than a few of the players there; but there`s also better players than Neely who have been passed over ( i.e. Mark Howe, Rogie Vachon, Rick Middleton)
     
  12. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    Neely isn't in the Hall because of longevity/health. That's it. He essentially lost two seasons in 1992 and 1993, and played barely more than half the year in 1994, and still scored 50 goals. If he would have played full years from 1992-94, and retired after the 1996 season, he'd be in, because he's a guy who would have scored 500 goals in about 850 games, equivalent to nearly a 50-goal pace per year, despite scoring only 51 goals in his first three years combined.

    Now here's the difference: Martin was a scoring forward. He never posted more than 100 PIMS. At his peak, when he was putting consistent PPG seasons, he was over a PPG in the playoffs once, in 1976. Neely was one of the first true "power forwards." He could dominate with skill, size, strength, physical play, or, when necessary, his fists. From 1987 to 1991, he was over 36 goals and 98 PIMs each year, even though he never played more than 76 games. He was the Bruins' top playoff scorer in their march to the final in 1990, and had 16 goals in 19 games in the 1991 playoffs, until Samuelsson took him out.

    PS: Neely entered the league at 18, while Martin was 20. Plus, Martin played with much better talent early in his career with Buffalo than Cam did in Vancouver. Rick Martin had a great career. Neely had a great career that would have been a HHOF/top-75 all-time player career if not for injuries that hindered and then cut him short.
    PPS: Tim Kerr a Hall of Famer? Not likely. A power play specialist who was not much of a factor at even strength. Great hands, strong as a horse, excellent shot and scoring instincts, agreed, but not HHOF calibre.
     
  13. revolverjgw

    revolverjgw Registered User

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    Never said he was, I was just bringing him up because his case was sort of similar AND he even has similar career numbers to Neely (better PPG). And that looks like what it's coming down to... numbers, or the lack of them. They're not HOFers because they don't the career numbers (and their PPGs aren't as elite as someone like Forsberg, who might also be a cursed player). Whether or not Kerr would be a HOFer anyway is debatable anyway, I agree. But his goal total might have been hard to ignore if those horrible things didn't happen to him.

    I agree with John Flyers Fan that Mark Howe was better than Kerr and Reckoning that Howe was better than Neely.
     
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