Hockey Outsider
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- Jan 16, 2005
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Bergeron47 said:I found your first 2 points extremely weak:
Bergeron, you know I respect you, but I will respond to your points…
Bergeron47 said:Then I guess Gilbert Perreault, Dale Howerchuk, Alex Delvecchio, Norm Ullman, Peter Stastny, Michel Goulet, Darryl Sittler, Jari Kurri, Bert Olmstead & Steve Shutt shouldnt be in the Hall of Fame by your logic.. Oh, but a few of them have Calders, so I guess thats their ticket in, right?
If a player doesn’t have any personal awards (including all-star selections), I would (with very few exceptions) hesitate to put him in the HOF.
I disagree with most of your example because all of them (except Stastny) were all-stars. Most of them were routinely among the league leaders in scoring in the regular season and playoffs; some were MVP finalists; most were better defensively. Andreychuk never earned an all-star selection, no awards, and was among the league’s leading scorers only once in 22 years.
Perreault—More awards than Andreychuk and more important to his franchise. Also a better scorer. 2 all-star selections and a Lady Byng; often placed among the league’s leading scorers; was basically the face of the Sabres franchise for nearly two decades
Hawerchuk—Much more dominant. All-star and MVP runner-up. Routinely among the league leaders in points and assists for the better part of a decade.
Delvecchio—More awards, better defense. All-star, three Lady Byng’s, Lester Patrick. Probably would have won the Selke if it was around back then.
Ullman—Much more dominant than Andreychuk. Two-time all-star, at time he was a dominant scorer. Led the league in goals once, twice led the playoffs in scoring.
Stastny—One of the few players who never won an award who deserves to be in Hall. Far more dominant offensively than Andreychuk; in fact it’s not even close. Stastny was a top ten scorer 6 times; Andreychuk was a top ten scorer once. Andreychuk was never higher than 9th; Stastny finished 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 6th.
Goulet—also not even close to Andreychuk. Five-time all-star. Andreychuk was a goal-scorer but finished 4th and 9th; Goulet finished 2nd, 4th, 4th, 5th, 6th and 9th. So Goulet was better, and played at a higher level longer.
Sittler- Closest player to Andreychuk on this list, but was an all-star once and had a few dominant seasons.
Kurri- Much more dominant offensively and defensively than Andreychuk, and has more awards. Led the league in goals once and was among the league leaders in goals and points for close to a decade; led the playoffs in goals four times; excellent defender. Five-time all-star, plus a Lady Byng.
Olmstead—Again, much more dominant. Led the league in assists twice in each the regular season and playoffs. Two-time all-star.
Shutt—three-time all star and led the league in scoring. Played an important part on probably the greatest dynasty in history (ie: he wasn’t just along for the ride, he made major contributions to the team as well).
Bergeron47 said:What did you expect? Who did in the 80s and early 90s besides Lemieux and Gretzky?
The fact that Gretzky and Lemieux were so dominant doesn’t change the fact that Andreychuk was never close to being a dominant scorer. After all, he can still finish 3rd! Even if we ignore Gretkzy and Lemieux, there are still 8 more spots in the top ten every year. Andreychuk simply wasn’t close to being the best scorer in the league, whether you include Gretzky or not. Besides, stars like Yzerman, Trottier, Goulet, Hull, Savard, Stastny, Hawerchuk, Robitaille, etc, were able to consistently score goals and points despite also playing behind Gretzky and/or Lemieux.