Arenas that could host a NHL team right now

[JMROWE]

All good points but the question is which arenas are capable of hosting an NHL team, RIGHT NOW.

Market size and things like that are irrelevant to this discussion. We are just talking about actual arenas.

The FOC. can go right now since Global Spectrum runs the arena & has put money in to the building & can be used as a temporary home for an NHL. team until a new arena is built.

 

[HisIceness]

Yeah I'd love to see the Inferno return but it's not likely. At one point the team in Florence was going to relocate to Myrtle Beach, a new building was going to be placed near Broadway at the Beach shopping plaza but then it got changed to Conway, where Coastal Carolina University is, but nothing ever came about. Greensboro is another market I'd like to see get another shot, and speaking of which...

The Greensboro Coliseum is technically NHL-ready, and has hosted the NHL before on a temporary basis. For those that don't know, when the Hurricanes relocated to NC in 1997 they had a bit of a dilemma, the arena in Raleigh wouldn't be ready for 2 years so the franchise had two options. Those two options were the somewhat recently renovated Greensboro Coliseum as shown above, and having to work around the ACC and NCAA first and second round tournaments (which Greensboro hosted in 1998) plus whatever concerts the building was scheduled to host, or Fayetteville at the newly renovated but very small Crown Coliseum. For anyone that is familiar with NC, you probably are aware of Fayettevilles reputation as not being a great city to put it nicely. So the Hurricanes opted for the bigger market, in the bigger building with college hoops already set for 2 weeks in March. It didn't go well but it was the best option of a no-win situation.

As for the Greensboro Coliseum itself, it has by far the seating capacity nailed down as it seats about 20k, the luxury suites and club/restaurant levels (or lack of) and whatever else new buildings come with however is a different story.

 

[cptjeff]

Yeah I'd love to see the Inferno return but it's not likely. At one point the team in Florence was going to relocate to Myrtle Beach, a new building was going to be placed near Broadway at the Beach shopping plaza but then it got changed to Conway, where Coastal Carolina University is, but nothing ever came about. Greensboro is another market I'd like to see get another shot, and speaking of which...

Spoiler

The Greensboro Coliseum is technically NHL-ready, and has hosted the NHL before on a temporary basis. For those that don't know, when the Hurricanes relocated to NC in 1997 they had a bit of a dilemma, the arena in Raleigh wouldn't be ready for 2 years so the franchise had two options. Those two options were the somewhat recently renovated Greensboro Coliseum as shown above, and having to work around the ACC and NCAA first and second round tournaments (which Greensboro hosted in 1998) plus whatever concerts the building was scheduled to host, or Fayetteville at the newly renovated but very small Crown Coliseum. For anyone that is familiar with NC, you probably are aware of Fayettevilles reputation as not being a great city to put it nicely. So the Hurricanes opted for the bigger market, in the bigger building with college hoops already set for 2 weeks in March. It didn't go well but it was the best option of a no-win situation.

As for the Greensboro Coliseum itself, it has by far the seating capacity nailed down as it seats about 20k, the luxury suites and club/restaurant levels (or lack of) and whatever else new buildings come with however is a different story.

Yeah, the amenities aren't great. It only has a single level of suites and they're pretty far from the ice by modern standards. Concessions are fairly primitive, but that one is easier to fix. But at least they finally upgraded the jumbotron, as your middle picture shows- the old one was a relic even when new. All the media and broadcast stuff, which is another less appreciated factor in arenas, is fully up to big league standards because of the NCAA and ACC Tournaments and other major events like the now-regular US Figure Skating championships.

But as I mentioned in my post upthread, only way an NHL team is coming to the Coliseum is if something crashes into PNC Arena. I'd love to see the Canes do preseason game or two, same with Charlotte (c'mon, play an NHL game in Bojangles!) but the team has historically been loath to do that. Maybe that might change under Dundon- would certainly be a way to build up a little more of a base outside of Raleigh.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

The FOC. can go right now since Global Spectrum runs the arena & has put money in to the building & can be used as a temporary home for an NHL. team until a new arena is built.

But as it stands its not a long term NHL venue. Which was I believe, the question. Any 10,000+ seater that can fit a rink can serve as temporary venue.

 

[MNNumbers]

Atlanta - State farm arena (Philips arena)

Newly renovated and new owners, still has hockey layout. Don't think NHL will ever try again though :/

Could you post a link to the hockey layout. I'd love to see it.

 

[Hoser]

Ice standards, on the other hand, are relatively public. This company gives us a hint of what NHL compliance looks like:

"Recently the NHL has issued revised design parameters to improve ice sheet and arena conditions for professional hockey venues. New modern arena construction has included active desiccant dehumidification to provide 65ºF at 35% to 40% RH (Relative Humidity) conditions to optimize the ice conditions.
...
In the recreational rink market the dew-point of the rink is maintained at or below 32 ºF, This will provide an indoor condition of 55 to 60ºF at 40 to 35% RH. The National Hockey League (NHL) has now issued requirements that are similar to the recreational market. The NHL has requested a 60ºF at 35% pre-game condition and a 65ºF at 45% post game condition"

What this means on a practical basis is that the arena needs to have up-to-date humidity control* and also high-quality icemaking equipment**.

[...]

* this was an issue at the new Canes arena as well, they had to install not just a rink but also humidity-control equipment that wasn't originally part of the plans
** this is an issue at Barclay's, which was recently revealed to out of NHL compliance

Speaking as someone who actually designs buildings, generally any arena built north of the Mason-Dixon line in the last 40 years will easily meet those design conditions. They're the bare minimum to prevent fogging up the rink.

Arenas built south of the Mason-Dixon line will have a far more difficult time keeping those indoor conditions simply because of the outdoor conditions. That said your arenas will already have substantial dehumidification systems in place just to keep the space comfortable for people.

Reality is these conditions are actually a pretty low bar to entry, and pretty much any building that has ever hosted a minor-league hockey game will easily meet them.

 

[sctvman]

The Canes didn’t have many options when they moved in 1997. Crown Coliseum is a 4,500 seat arena. Imagine seeing NHL games in a arena that is smaller than some mid-major college basketball gyms. And the team would have been mocked even more for years (like they were in Greensboro with all the empty seats).

North Charleston Coliseum was probably the second best option behind Greensboro. Greenville’s arena didn’t open until 1998. The ECHL Stingrays during the mid 90s were the biggest thing in town. They always sold out 10,000 seats for weekend games, and even mid-week games would get 6-7K.

The first season (1993-94) they were averaging over 9,000 fans a game, and they won the Kelly Cup (ECHL title) in 1997.

The problem was Charleston wasn’t the booming place it is now. The Navy Base had just closed, taking 22,000 jobs, and the metro was about 500K or so (now it is about 800K). The ECHL team was beloved locally, with most of the players from the team still around now (including Rob Concannon being the President).

Taking that away for a year, even for 41 games of a NHL team, probably would have cratered the local fan base. It was also a much different economy in 1997. Paying NHL prices ($50+ a ticket in 1997 when most Stingrays tickets topped at $15 at the time) also would have been a shock to the system.

North Charleston has had playoff games in June multiple times with no ice problems, but basically, the ice sheet is melted whenever the last Stingrays game is played.

They haven’t held even a NHL preseason game since 1999 (even though Charleston is more than large enough to host one) because of that. Usually the ice isn’t made until the end of September.

 

[TheLegend]

I said it wasn't the be all end all in terms of this, but I find in a city that size the selection of a much smaller arena to stick out and couldn't find recent ice events involving the Smoothie King Center.

I don't really understand removing the ice plant, but it has certainly happened in a few arenas over the years. If you're committed to redoing your floor, I think some cut this expense out when it happens. I noticed the capacity has changed in terms of New Orleans a couple of times which might suggest some renovations, though the Katrina point is probably more accurate.

The person who told me this as a tip ran an IHL and AHL franchise and I have heard similar thoughts in terms of this from other front office personnel when they used to look for venues to move NHL games around in the pre-season to when that was more common.

For some info somewhat on this it is complex. I wish I had a more definitive time line on how often these are replaced.

Also somewhat explanation of this for Winter Classic temporary sheets



I think this is easier than installing a temporary system indoors, but that technology is used for the outdoor games I believe.

Tucson Convention Center replaced their ice plant and the ice floor just this past month to accomodate the AHL Roadrunners. Cost was $3.2 million out of a $65 million budget to upgrade the entire facility.

Rio Nuevo Approves $65M TCC Renovation Plan

 

[GuelphStormer]

Beyond facility operational infrastructure, do we know what the requirements are with respect to fancy lighting? Concessions? Entrance/exit? Wifi? Scoreboard? Is the ability to lower/raise a giant shark head now a requirement?

Perhaps NYR and Bruins folks might know what new features were incorporated into recent renovations?

 

[Voight]

Terrible stadium name but I respect the hustle of trying to squeeze two company names in one title.

In any other state it would have just been the Yum Center but with Lousiville being in KY....

 

[Boxer Courage]

The “no ice plant” argument cracks me up every time it’s brought up. Solution: install one, just like every building in the world that has ice did.

 

[TheLegend]

The “no ice plant” argument cracks me up every time it’s brought up. Solution: install one, just like every building in the world that has ice did.

I agree with this, given the OPs question on what arenas could host an NHL team.

The only limiting factors to me are the footprint of the floor and seating capacity. The rest is relatively easy to overcome with time.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

I said a new arena or renovated FOC. could be funded by the government if Hamilton is awarded the 2030 commonwealth games which stands a good chance of happening since the city is booming right now & the population the of Hamilton will be over 1 million by then .

How do you think Hamilton funding the funding for Tim Horton's Field through the government for the pan am games same thing would happen & by the way Houston , Quebec City & Southern Ontario (Hamilton) are the only cities that have interest in an NHL. team right now .

FOC will not receive 100 % public subsidies to the tune of $250 million for the sole benefit of a private individual after the games...if Hamilton even gets the games. The arena would likely receive a modest upgrade for the games from public funds with a private individual having to shell out the majority of the renovation costs if he/she thought the NHL was remotely interested in having a team in Hamilton

 

[oknazevad]

I agree with this, given the OPs question on what arenas could host an NHL team.

The only limiting factors to me are the footprint of the floor and seating capacity. The rest is relatively easy to overcome with time.

With the caveat that instsllkng an ice plant is expensive and requires digging up the concrete floor. Not exactly a weekend project.

 

[TheLegend]

With the caveat that instsllkng an ice plant is expensive and requires digging up the concrete floor. Not exactly a weekend project.

I pointed out above Tucson just replaced their plant and floor about a month ago for about $3.2 million. It was done to bring it up to NHL level since it’s for the Coyotes’ AHL franchise.

So time is the real caveat here. Thirty days is a lot of down time for most arenas but it isn’t insurmountable.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

With the caveat that instsllkng an ice plant is expensive and requires digging up the concrete floor. Not exactly a weekend project.

But it’s not exactly demolishing the building and starting from scratch.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Beyond facility operational infrastructure, do we know what the requirements are with respect to fancy lighting? Concessions? Entrance/exit? Wifi? Scoreboard? Is the ability to lower/raise a giant shark head now a requirement?

Perhaps NYR and Bruins folks might know what new features were incorporated into recent renovations?

I believe the NHL has lighting requirements for TV purposes. There are variations between different buildings, but they all hit a certain standard.

The layout and amenities aren't really an NHL concern, unless they impact the feasibility of the franchise. The only time you hear rumblings from the league office is when the building falls way behind standard (Saddledome, Nassau).

 

[Hoser]

The layout and amenities aren't really an NHL concern, unless they impact the feasibility of the franchise. The only time you hear rumblings from the league office is when the building falls way behind standard (Saddledome, Nassau).

You hear rumblings from the league when it suits the teams' purposes; whether the teams' complaints bear out in reality or not is irrelevant.

 

[Hoser]

Beyond facility operational infrastructure, do we know what the requirements are with respect to fancy lighting? Concessions? Entrance/exit? Wifi? Scoreboard? Is the ability to lower/raise a giant shark head now a requirement?

I don't remember the NHL-specific broadcast standards offhand (and it's not my specialty, I'm not an electrical engineer) but from what I recall they're around 1000 lux (~100 foot-candles) minimum (vertical and horizontal), with a minimum acceptable variation. It's nothing special, honestly. CHL and NCAA hockey, NBA, even MLB and pro football standards are all about the same. With LED lighting becoming more and more popular as time goes on the cost to retrofit older arenas is dropping like a rock, and the LED fixtures are capable of many more lumens per watt so you don't have to upgrade the circuits feeding the lighting. Any rink designed to accommodate broadcast TV—i.e. pretty much any arena with more than a few thousand seats in it—will meet the minimum thresholds.

Entrances and exits will be dictated by applicable building codes, which may vary slightly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Same with the number of toilets and urinals, public drinking fountains, etc.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You hear rumblings from the league when it suits the teams' purposes; whether the teams' complaints bear out in reality or not is irrelevant.

You're not wrong that the rumblings are self-serving. But it's still valid to say that buildings like Saddledome and Nassau are unsustainable as far as keeping pace with revenue generation in the modern NHL. If they don't have the suites, they don't have the suites. If they don't have the advertising space, etc.

These are the only cases I'm aware of in which the NHL has taken a publicly-stated interest in arena architecture. Otherwise, as you said in the other post, it's up to local building code and the desires of whoever's paying the contractor.

 

[cptjeff]

I don't remember the NHL-specific broadcast standards offhand (and it's not my specialty, I'm not an electrical engineer) but from what I recall they're around 1000 lux (~100 foot-candles) minimum (vertical and horizontal), with a minimum acceptable variation. It's nothing special, honestly. CHL and NCAA hockey, NBA, even MLB and pro football standards are all about the same. With LED lighting becoming more and more popular as time goes on the cost to retrofit older arenas is dropping like a rock, and the LED fixtures are capable of many more lumens per watt so you don't have to upgrade the circuits feeding the lighting. Any rink designed to accommodate broadcast TV—i.e. pretty much any arena with more than a few thousand seats in it—will meet the minimum thresholds.

Entrances and exits will be dictated by applicable building codes, which may vary slightly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Same with the number of toilets and urinals, public drinking fountains, etc.

They do have certain standards for the targeting of the lighting, though. MSG, for a very long time, liked to keep the lights on the ice and only the ice, a la broadway shows, with the crowd in relative dark. The NHL, for TV purposes, wants to be able to get the crowd on camera, so they required MSG to adjust the angles so the first several rows of seats were lit, not just the ice. MSG accommodated that for hockey games by installing a second set of lights and kept the original setup for basketball.

Don't know if they kept that through the renovation, but it was a thing for a while.

 

[Hoser]

Lighting the first few rows of seats up is just incidental, they end up somewhat illuminated just as a function of keeping the ice surface itself lit evenly. Like I said, proper lighting means meeting some bare minimums for uniformity. Otherwise the rink has light and dark 'spots' and that makes it a bit uncomfortable to watch (both live and on TV).

Here's what a photometric plan of a typical NHL rink looks like:

Lighting isn't pointed at the crowd, it just spills over and reflects off the ice. It's not done on purpose. Whatever changes were made to Madison Square Garden would have been because the ice rink itself was unevenly lit, not "to get the crowd on camera". Believe me: they don't care about showing schlubs like you and me on TV.

 

[Hoser]

You're not wrong that the rumblings are self-serving. But it's still valid to say that buildings like Saddledome and Nassau are unsustainable as far as keeping pace with revenue generation in the modern NHL. If they don't have the suites, they don't have the suites. If they don't have the advertising space, etc.

Again, it's less to do with the reality of having "too few suites" than controlling a perception of "too few suites". Just how many is "too few"? It's very telling that they never talk concrete numbers.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Again, it's less to do with the reality of having "too few suites" than controlling a perception of "too few suites". Just how many is "too few"? It's very telling that they never talk concrete numbers.

I mean, there is an actual reality to having too few suites.

 

[Hoser]

I mean, there is an actual reality to having too few suites.

Sure; what's the threshold? How many is 'enough'?



(I know you don't know. And I hope I don't come across as though I'm picking on you, it's a rhetorical question.)