Are you a top 6 forward if...

[Stylizer1]

you can't score while line mates are out? Turris, Alfredsson, Michalek, Latendress, Silfverberg have been terrible without Spezza. I understand that he is the glue that bonds these players together but on their own they seem incapable of creating offense on their own. A few years back as long as we had Alfie in the line up we were okay but with his better years behind him are we going to be a 1 player team again? Not having Karlsson impacts our offense greatly but what are we really getting with this top 6? I think we would be doing fine with Karlsson but I don't think he could provide enough offense to make up for the lack of scoring not being produced by our top line. Karlsson also relies on Spezza for his points.

We definitely need to bring in 1 UFA to solidify our top 6 and have another spark plug because we are to young and inexperienced to count on the roster as it stands.

If would provide more time and space for Zibby, Silfverberg, and Turris to truly develop some chemistry together.

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[NyQuil]

Not a top 3.

Maybe a top 6.

There are plenty of complementary guys in the top 6 forwards across the league.

 

[2CHAINZ]

MM looked great before he went down again, came in and created ample space and scoring chances, that line of MM Zack Alfie was dominant. Silf, it's his first year here and now on a team decimated by top end injuries you people are expecting to much, let him develop in peace. Lats has been injured the entire time so not sure how he has looked bad, unless being inured is looking bad. Turris yes I concur not sure what's going on the guy just can't seem to find offense, but in fairness he has played a good two-way game so can't hate to much.









2CHHHHAAAAIIIIIINNNZZZZZ

 

[thinkwild]

I've always found the term 'Top 6 forward' a sort of curious one. Is it because we want to delude ourselves into thinking they could be first liners, or we want to fool others into thinking that? Why dont we just call them 2nd line forwards, is that too depressing to think of them as? Is it because we we think they could be a 'Poor mans 1st liners' as if that kind of coupon clipping success story is applicable here? Perhaps we mean a top two line scoring line forward, like Spezza or Stajan, both top 6 forwards?

Alright, perhaps that is a pretty silly pet peeve too.

It really highlights the difference though between the star players who are first liners and the rest who are basically stone hands. Perhaps that's what we mean by top 6'ers - the rest. But we are really hoping for a top 3 player playing on our 2nd line when we think of top 6'er I always thought.

I'm not sure its fair to say all our forwards have been terrible without Spezza either. Obviously less productive without its elite talent but its battling thru adversity level and raising their games level is shooting through the roof. Michalek has played well when not injured. And alfie has been getting back into form lately. Zibby and Silfv are first year players finding their way, and i'd suggest pretty well. Lats was struggling with head injury, maybe like Vermette as a junior. And Turris has been snakebit but playing well and making things happen. Hopefully Spezza's return would see him find the net more, but its no guarantee.

And if we really are young and inexperienced, is now the best time for adding that high priced ufa before we are sure how well our youth will fill roles on the team? Take 4 players on ELC's all coming up for their first RFA contract and the $16 mil floor to cap difference can be filled very quickly.

 

[Here I Pageau Again]

I feel like Silfverberg hasn't been any worse without Spezza. Neither has Alfie or Michalek. Michalek was a force in the two games he played the last week. Alfie has been fine too.

Silfverberg didn't look great with Spezza, and I would argue he is just the same without him as with him. He has things to work out, but its on the line of confidence and stuff.

Yes, our goals have gone down drastically without Spezza. But since Spezza went down we've also had our other top offensive players go down too (in Karlsson and Michalek).

I think the issue is that our talent that is left over is either in their first year of NHL play, been injured for the majority of the last few years (Lats) or an over ager, and is being spread across all 4 lines.

I do think our team is missing one or two top six players (two when Alfie retires for sure), but I feel like you cannot use this year to decide that. You can have non-star players on your top 6 (see Greening last year) but needs to be interspersed with talented top players.

 

[mcnorth]

How about - Spezza is our only legit top 3 player? Michalek is debatable, but I think he's a 'second liner'... unless his center is a Spezza (if you follow that - well done). And second-liners playing first line minutes seems like a real opportunity... until you realize they're playing against shutdown pairings etc. So yeah.

I totally agree we need at least one more legit scoring forward (and you can define that as you will, lol). I was mulling about our ideal lines if everyone was healthy and we still have a big hole on our top line.

Michalek/Spezza/(Latendresse?)
Smith/Turris/Alfie
Silfverberg/Zibanejad/Neil
Greening/O'Brien/Condra
(Kassian, Regin, Daug)

Methot/EK
Cowen/Weircioch
Phillips/Gryba

Something like that based on some current trends about who is clicking with who? I dunno, but the top line needs a boost.

 

[xking23]

Well if scoring is what matters. Greening is 46th and Michalek is 54th for left wing scoring. Alfredsson is 39th with Condra as 61 (Silfverberg is 68th). Turris is 50th.

So basically they are all in the top 60 for their position in scoring. Assuming Spezza would be as well we have 4 second liners and third liner and Spezza in our top 6.

5/6 are true top 6. Condra/Silfverberg are close.

 

[eNTe17]

Not a top 3.

Maybe a top 6.

There are plenty of complementary guys in the top 6 forwards across the league.

A Chris Kunitz comes to mind

 

[aragorn]

I've watched plenty of games where Spezza did absolutely nothing & other players scored or set up games. I've watched games where a Spezza turnover cost us the game too. Geez guys on here treat him like he was the next coming ...

Yes, he is an important player for this team but for gods sake we have plenty of very good players who are proving they can still win games & be competitive without Spezza. Maybe we don't score as much but we certainly have cut down on the goals against without him or is that just a coincidence. I would argue that Karlsson is more important to this team scoring than Spezza but both help. What I hope is that when they do return we continue to keep the goals against down as well as start scoring a few more.

 

[HockeySens]

To me a top 6 forward is someone who can create chances for himself or other players but not necessarily score high points and play against the checking line and top 4 pair of the other team. So sens have spezza michalek, alfredsson and turris but hes still young

 

[Stylizer1]

Remember how people where always arguing over if Fisher was a second line center. In Nashville he is (probably even a 1st line center) but for a championship caliber team he was not. Most can't see past team loyalty when it comes to evaluating players but our biggest problem over the years was solidifying the top line post the Pizza line era.

 

[mcnorth]

I've watched plenty of games where Spezza did absolutely nothing & other players scored or set up games. I've watched games where a Spezza turnover cost us the game too. Geez guys on here treat him like he was the next coming ...

Yes, he is an important player for this team but for gods sake we have plenty of very good players who are proving they can still win games & be competitive without Spezza. Maybe we don't score as much but we certainly have cut down on the goals against without him or is that just a coincidence. I would argue that Karlsson is more important to this team scoring than Spezza but both help. What I hope is that when they do return we continue to keep the goals against down as well as start scoring a few more.

Oh please. People are just saying that we agree he is a top-line player no matter his linemates.

 

[CanadianHockey]

Excellent anti-jinx thread.

 

[Step]

Excellent anti-jinx thread.

lol I was just about to post that.

 

[mcnorth]

Remember how people where always arguing over if Fisher was a second line center. In Nashville he is (probably even a 1st line center) but for a championship caliber team he was not. Most can't see past team loyalty when it comes to evaluating players but our biggest problem over the years was solidifying the top line post the Pizza line era.

Fisher was a very good second-line center - but he has the skillset to be a PERFECT shut-down/checking line center. And people think of that slot as the third line.

 

[Stylizer1]

Excellent anti-jinx thread.

As long as we play terrible teams the rest of the season the anti jinx is on.

 

[Xspyrit]

I don't see the point of these threads, but again, for the 10th thousand time :

Turris : is it a joke? Turris has been awesome, 18 pts in 28 games is good for a 23 y/o asked to play a much bigger role than he should be at this point in time. He had a 4-5 games stretch where he struggled a bit but show me players that don't get hot and cold.
Alfredsson : top-6 forward but not in his prime anymore so just don't expect 100 pts seasons
Michalek : top-6 forward, no matter how you slice it
Zibanejad : top-6 forward developing. Thing is he is only 19 y/o, just started playing in the NHL
Latendresse : would be a top-6 forward easily if he could remain healthy for a while
Silfverberg : will be a top-6 forward but need more time adjusting to the league. Player that need to be surrounded by more talent


Of course, if you want your top-6 forwards to produce, you need them to play with talented players so it's a bit dumb to expect the 2nd youngest team in the NHL (rebuilding team too) to score at will without their best talent (Karlsson/Spezza/Michalek/Cowen/Latendresse have missed a lot of games)

I'd say they are doing very very very well under the circumstances


That being said, I'd be all for bringing a veteran top-6 forward, a guy that will produce no matter what

you can't score while line mates are out? Turris, Alfredsson, Michalek, Latendress, Silfverberg have been terrible without Spezza. I understand that he is the glue that bonds these players together but on their own they seem incapable of creating offense on their own. A few years back as long as we had Alfie in the line up we were okay but with his better years behind him are we going to be a 1 player team again? Not having Karlsson impacts our offense greatly but what are we really getting with this top 6? I think we would be doing fine with Karlsson but I don't think he could provide enough offense to make up for the lack of scoring not being produced by our top line. Karlsson also relies on Spezza for his points.

As far as I know... they are still scoring goals?

It's just that losing Spezza and Karlsson (and Michalek) is impossible to replace. They basically lost 0.5 to 1.0 goals per game.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

As long as we play terrible teams the rest of the season the anti jinx is on.

Well we're playing the East for the rest of the season so yes, that will do.

 

[Stylizer1]

As far as I know... they are still scoring goals?

It's just that losing Spezza and Karlsson (and Michalek) is impossible to replace. They basically lost 0.5 to 1.0 goals per game.

out of our 14 loses how many have been by that 1 goal you speak of?

1 goal means a lot.

 

[Indrew]

I'm a top 6 forward on my 11 person ball hockey squad.

 

[derriko]

To me a top 6 forward is someone who can create chances for himself or other players

I don't agree with that definition. There are plenty of players out there that never handle the puck, arent great passers, yet are top 6 guys.

I think you're just defining a playmaker unless im interpreting it wrong. Watch Latendresse. He gets the puck, passes it immediately to his line mate, then goes to the net / tries to get open.

 

[Magix]

I've watched plenty of games where Spezza did absolutely nothing & other players scored or set up games. I've watched games where a Spezza turnover cost us the game too. Geez guys on here treat him like he was the next coming ...

Yes, he is an important player for this team but for gods sake we have plenty of very good players who are proving they can still win games & be competitive without Spezza. Maybe we don't score as much but we certainly have cut down on the goals against without him or is that just a coincidence. I would argue that Karlsson is more important to this team scoring than Spezza but both help. What I hope is that when they do return we continue to keep the goals against down as well as start scoring a few more.

Cant have 3rd liners that you covet so much in your top 6. No cups would be coming to Ottawa if you were the gm. With your ideal gritty "top line" of greening-smith-michalek.

You need to stop living in the past with your "observations" of spezza as well. The guy is an elite center.

 

[R2010]

The only top line forward on our team is Spezza.

 

[Stylizer1]

The only top line forward on our team is Spezza.

True dat!

You would think the ideal scenario would have Spezza playing with top end talent during his prime and not waiting for The youth movement to catch up. If we want to win we need another 1st line player. This will only help our young players develop and learn from players better than them. If Silfverberg or Zibby were the types who "got" the NHL from the get go this would be a different conversation.

 

[HockeySens]

I don't agree with that definition. There are plenty of players out there that never handle the puck, arent great passers, yet are top 6 guys.

I think you're just defining a playmaker unless im interpreting it wrong. Watch Latendresse. He gets the puck, passes it immediately to his line mate, then goes to the net / tries to get open.

well by going to the net he is trying to create a chance for himself, a top 6 forward will do it more effectively than a bottom 6. Say like a holmstrom who was a top 6 forward compared to a bottom 6 who just screens the goalie