Are the World Juniors highlighting the growing weakness in International hockey?

[Botta]

Hockey is a major sport in 10-15 countries which leaves well over 200 countries where hockey isn't, or is barely, played.
It is pretty safe to call hockey a minor sport..

There are 1,5 million hockey players in the world.I belive that just in germany there are more than 6 million football players.It is a small sport because most people live in warm places, and it is alco expensive for both people and the governments around the world

 

[mattihp]

Foreigners in sweden dont play hockey.
Seriously, name 5 foreigners from sweden who is playing hockey. Not just "hockey" but in elitelevel.
I cant think of anyone. The closest i get is Hagos and Mark in da park but they were born in Sweden.

The SEL is full of foreigners not born in sweden playing hockey.

 

[Botta]

The discussion veered away from relevance when it started to get into cricket and other commonwealth sports.

I agree soccer would have an impact. But I think its truly just a numbers game. Canada and the USA have far more players to pull from thus giving them and advanatge in a tourney like the world juniors. But as others pointed out when the pool of players is all ages the Europeans do far better.


As an aside I've always wondered why Norway has never really had much of a hockey program as opposed to their neighbors Sweden and Finland. My sister in law is from Stavangar. She has said its never really been a popular sport and was viewed by some as a sport for thugs. The more popular sports were soccer, the alpine sports and handball. I can't remember if it was my sister in law or someone on here that mentioned the big difference from Sweden/Finland was how Norway invested in their sporting infrastructure. Norway spent a good deal on the alpine sports and their development which accounts for their huge success in those sports internationally over the years. But spends very little on hockey and its development.

That`s all about politics.The crosscountry skiers are getting all the funding together with the skijumpers.Hockey is more expensive, and the government spend the money on other sports.And the media don`t cover hockey and so on.Too bad , but i expect denmark to be superior to us within 10 years.Teir programme get almost 20 times more funding from the government than we do in Norway.Besides that hockey is a woking mans sport.They built the first rinks on the east side in Oslo so they working class started playing, and the upper class rejected the sport.That also mean that only small businesses(plumers etc) sponsor the sport.In Stavanger they wanted Statoil(huge company) to fund a new arena, but they meant the sport was too ... violent maybe?

 

[Trotzig]

Foreigners in sweden dont play hockey.
Seriously, name 5 foreigners from sweden who is playing hockey. Not just "hockey" but in elitelevel.
I cant think of anyone. The closest i get is Hagos and Mark in da park but they were born in Sweden.

Oh wow, aren't you an idiot?
Fact: second, third or even fourth generation immigrants are still considered "foreigners".

Therefore; Owuya brothers, Zibanejad, Nemeth, Hagos and probably even Weinhandl and Pääjarvi too, descending from foreign heritage.

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

The SEL is full of foreigners not born in sweden playing hockey.

I'm guessing he's talking about Swedes of foreign descent.

 

[mattihp]

I'm guessing he's talking about Swedes of foreign descent.

Since he wants guys born abroad... there's often the age problem. They're too old to get into hockey (start playing or the culture) when they arrive.

They're lots of swedish born swedes of foreign descent in elite hockey; and within 5 years there'll be more because more and more immigrant families can work their way up into the middle class now.

 

[Phil McKraken]

As an aside I've always wondered why Norway has never really had much of a hockey program

You could spin that around and wonder why neither USA nor (especially) Canada have never had much of a cross-country program.

 

[Silver]

Drugs seriously? I mean, obviously there are some users out there but the vast majority of hockey players don't touch them. All the people that I know who use or have used them are baseball players, football players or weightlifters. Performance enhancers don't really exist in hockey and the NHL is proof of that. There's been what, 2 or 3 players ever caught?

I'd be careful hanging your hat on that. Lance Armstrong likes to parrot that he's never tested positive (which is false) and that he's tested all the time, but he's as dirty as Barry Bonds was.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/Junior/2010/10/20/15758381.html

With those kinds of numbers, especially no out of season testing, I'd be shocked if there weren't lots of kids on some type of PED. The stakes are too high for them not to.

 

[New User Name]

I think it goes a bit deeper then that and has more to do with the local teams in europe how they run there programs etc.Sure there are some solid programs but there just as many that are not good programs and have issues.Should the good programs get funding yes but the bigger issue is the programs that have issues saying here we will give your a ton of money thats not the way to go.Its very easy to just blame the nhl but there not the root of this probleam its much deeper then that.

I disagree.

The NHL by giving USA hockey 8+ million a year is a slap in the face to European hockey nations.

It's obvious what the NHL wants.

If it was all about being fair, the NHL would give USA hockey developmental money, not a handout that is no where near what USA hockey deserves.

I stick to my point. The NHL is more or less telling European hockey....**** you, we don't need you.

And as I said before. I'd prefer 5 or 6 strong hockey countries to what soon will be a 2 horse race between Canada and the states.

In the past, we have seen some amazing, gifted players coming from Russia, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic and the way it's going, that number is shrinking every year...and that's not good for international hockey.

 

[wjhl2009fan]

I disagree.

The NHL by giving USA hockey 8+ million a year is a slap in the face to European hockey nations.

It's obvious what the NHL wants.

If it was all about being fair, the NHL would give USA hockey developmental money, not a handout that is no where near what USA hockey deserves.

I stick to my point. The NHL is more or less telling European hockey....**** you, we don't need you.

And as I said before. I'd prefer 5 or 6 strong hockey countries to what soon will be a 2 horse race between Canada and the states.

In the past, we have seen some amazing, gifted players coming from Russia, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic and the way it's going, that number is shrinking every year...and that's not good for international hockey.

Ok lets just say the nhl gives $100 million per year to the european teams but its not used as it should be then what.With that said i would like to see a deal in place where they do get funding but only if the money is used in the right way for the devlopment of there youth system not the sr teams.Aslo there would have to be a transfer agreement between the nhl and russia you can't have funding and say not to a transfer agreement.

 

[Rogalo]

I disagree.

The NHL by giving USA hockey 8+ million a year is a slap in the face to European hockey nations.

It's obvious what the NHL wants.

If it was all about being fair, the NHL would give USA hockey developmental money, not a handout that is no where near what USA hockey deserves.

I stick to my point. The NHL is more or less telling European hockey....**** you, we don't need you.

And as I said before. I'd prefer 5 or 6 strong hockey countries to what soon will be a 2 horse race between Canada and the states.

In the past, we have seen some amazing, gifted players coming from Russia, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic and the way it's going, that number is shrinking every year...and that's not good for international hockey.

We could do wonders with 8 million dollars a year on development!

 

[UvBnDatsyuked]

I disagree.

The NHL by giving USA hockey 8+ million a year is a slap in the face to European hockey nations.

It's obvious what the NHL wants.
If it was all about being fair, the NHL would give USA hockey developmental money, not a handout that is no where near what USA hockey deserves.

I stick to my point. The NHL is more or less telling European hockey....**** you, we don't need you.

And as I said before. I'd prefer 5 or 6 strong hockey countries to what soon will be a 2 horse race between Canada and the states.

In the past, we have seen some amazing, gifted players coming from Russia, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic and the way it's going, that number is shrinking every year...and that's not good for international hockey.

More kids playing hockey so they pay for tickets when they get older. The only thing the NHL is telling the youth leagues of Europe is that they know the vast majority will never buy an NHL ticket

 

[syc]

working out makes you grow?

No but good nutrition does. It's not just NA that understand this either. The dutch government has spent millions in nutrition education and it has paid off.

http://www.google.com/search?sclien...ce=hp&q=dutch+growth+spurt&btnG=Google+Search

It's no a coincidence that the shorter people are earth are from poor countries. It's called science.

 

[New User Name]

More kids playing hockey so they pay for tickets when they get older. The only thing the NHL is telling the youth leagues of Europe is that they know the vast majority will never buy an NHL ticket

Doesn't mean the NHL should all but forget about European countries and hand out welfare to USA hockey.

 

[New User Name]

Ok lets just say the nhl gives $100 million per year to the european teams but its not used as it should be then what.With that said i would like to see a deal in place where they do get funding but only if the money is used in the right way for the devlopment of there youth system not the sr teams.Aslo there would have to be a transfer agreement between the nhl and russia you can't have funding and say not to a transfer agreement.

huh? Why say something like that?
The European hockey organisations aren't run by the mob.

I don't see any conditions that the NHL put on USA hockey.

There's no transfer agreement with USA hockey.

 

[RyanMac]

It's cyclical. Canada is always near the top.. but over the last decade other strong contenders include Sweden, Russia and the United States.

 

[Canuck21t]

China population: 1,331,460,000
India population: 1,155,347,678

% Indochinese NHL players: 0%


What you need to look at is the number of licensed junior players, not the populations.

Indochinese doesn't include neither Chinese nor Indians. Indochina comprises the territory of the former French Indochina: Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam.

The term is used in reference to the countries of mainland Southeast Asia that received cultural influence from China and India. Cambodia and Laos are influenced mainly by the culture of India with a smaller influence from the culture of China, whilst Vietnam is heavily influenced by Chinese culture with minor cultural influences from India.

Sorry for going OT, but the mistake bugged me a little too much to let it go.

 

[HockeyH3aven]

I don't get the issue people have with USA hockey getting so much money. 24 of the NHL's 30 teams are in the United States. It makes sense they want to do as much as possible to grow the game there.

Why would they give more money to Hockey Canada? Canadians live and breathe hockey, there really isn't any "growth" to be had.

It is fair? No. Do I like it? Not at all, I love international competition in hockey, I wish South Africa had a team that could win the gold medal. Does it make complete business (The NHL is one) sense? Absolutely.

 

[ppaul092]

Sorry for going OT, but the mistake bugged me a little too much to let it go.

i forgive you.. good input

 

[The Red Helmet]

Isn't Rugby bigger aswell? Huge in South-Africa, New Zealand, Australia, Brittain, Ireland, France etc.

What about baseball? I'm not much of a fan but that is pretty big worldwide.

 

[Dosing]

What about baseball? I'm not much of a fan but that is pretty big worldwide.

The sport michael jordan played in spacejam? yea its huge

 

[EbencoyE]

Again in some countries it is but to say over all junior hockey is minor is not true.

So in what country besides Canada is junior hockey a big deal?

Not even limiting it to junior hockey, but ALL hockey it's not even a big deal anywhere but Canada. In Europe, soccer trumps hockey easily and in the U.S. it's baseball, basketball, and football.

It's unfortunate, but true. Nobody cares about junior hockey. It's a very tiny niche of an already tiny niche.

 

[seanlinden]

Honeslty... I really don't see a lot changing. Canada, USA, Russia, Sweden have always been the powerhouses. Finland, Slovakia & Czech Republic have sort of come and gone. Some years they'll compete with the big boys, other years they'll be a step below them.

Canada-Russia played a pretty close game. USA-Finland went to overtime. Sweden & Russia played a pretty close game aswell. The Czech's and Slovak's haven't had a very strogn tournament, but junior hockey tends to amplify the differences between the two countries. Factor in the NHL ice surface and it gives a slight advantage to the North Americans.

 

[UvBnDatsyuked]

Doesn't mean the NHL should all but forget about European countries and hand out welfare to USA hockey.

Ok Agree. They should stop giving money to USA Hockey. I have no problem with that. Makes more sense than you saying to just give to Euro countries for no other reason than to not forget about them.

 

[leafsfuture]

Another key factor is that we have seen that European players take longer to develop. This stems mainly from the fact that many 18 and 19 year olds are playing 4th line duty in their countries top leagues. Thus, when they play at the WJC, they arent as refined as Canada. Then as they become 20, 21, 22 and begin to get ice time on their teams, they bloom.

This is why many European late round picks turn out to be gold. Also its why we hear of many 23 - 25 year old Europeans making big leaps in play (Gustavsson, Brunnstrum, Cervenka etc)