OT: Are the Leafs widely embraced by all demographics in Toronto or not?

The CyNick

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Sep 17, 2009
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TV ratings will tell you everything you need to know. I believe the average NBA game draws ten times lower viewers than the average NHL game in Canada.

I guess to the point of the thread you would need to see TV numbers for the GTA only, which isn't widely available. My guess is it wouldn't be far off the national ratio.

Blue Jays and Raptors both benefit from being the only National option for the sport in this country. So the fact that the Leafs still draw the largest TV audience speaks volumes to their popularity locally and nationally.

Jays are clearly number two to the Leafs, not the Raps, and if anything you could argue the Jays are almost as popular as the Leafs on a national basis. When the Jays were good, they were doing 1 million viewers a night. That's an impressive number.

You will see skewed numbers posted online that focus on playoff numbers, but those numbers should grow the further a team goes. I feel like the average viewership per game is a better guage of popularity.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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Aug 14, 2010
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Valid observation IMO. I haven't followed the Jays in years, how diverse is their fan base?

This thread is an interesting one, I have no idea what the demographics are but I'll guess that in terms of passion, Leaf fans are ahead by miles simply because many of us have been fans for such a long time.

I'm surprised its just kind of bubbled for several days, and not been closed. :laugh:

In terms of diversity, realistically, it goes Jays, Raps, Leafs. That's ranked from which sports crowds will actually be diverse vs. which ones will have a concentration of a single demographic\race.

Agreed, the Leafs fans are the oldest group in terms of roots, as the franchise has been around the longest. Passion is an interesting one though. You have to admire the loyalty of Leaf fans, but Raptors fans are a lively group (one of the best home courts in the league) with a core of young adult fans. Profoundly passionate. The Jays fanbase can be defined as the most fairweather, though when things are going well, they can get fairly intense as well.

As far as the TFC goes, they could be considered the most diverse if you're including non-major North American sports in the discussion.
 

Dirty Dan

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May 5, 2010
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Broad generalization (but no definite there are some exceptions obviously)

Blacks: Into NBA

Indians: Into NBA, new immigrants into cricket

Middle Eastern/Muslims: Into soccer

Asians seem more into basketball too, never really see them into hockey

Jays people will bandwagon but baseball is not a huge sport
 

Hqcan

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Apr 4, 2018
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FYI Muslims are from all over the world and not just the Middle East (speaking as a Pakistani-Canadian Muslim here :) ) .Also one thing missing in your Raps vs. Leafs analysis is that the Raps are literally the only team in Canada whereas the Leafs support in the GTA is eroded by other Canadian clubs.

Interestingly, if you go to a hockey game in another city (for instance check out an Oilers game), the crowd is incredibly diverse.
 
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Suntouchable13

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Dec 20, 2003
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In my Middle Eastern community, baseball is absolutely not even on the radar. Even when the Blue Jays are in the playoffs, very few people care. The sport does not resonate at all with people in that part of the world. The pace is a big reason.

Basketball is the most popular as well as the Maple Leafs.

I wouldn't consider myself Middle Eastern per se, but I do come from that background and I love baseball.
 

sxvnert

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Nov 23, 2015
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A) Everyone loves hockey.
B) Save the SJW narratives for politics.

Canada is one of the few places in the world where multiculturalism has worked fantastically. Reason: In Canada we don't force diversity upon people, instead we let it happen organically over generations.
First comes the tight knit 1st gen communities which closely mirror their motherland, then comes the 2nd gen which expand those communities while some move to other communities, and by 3rd gen, families are completely integrated. Leaving behind a great city in their image that all Canadians can enjoy (cuisines, traditions, etc).
Libs have tried their best to divide this country through identity politics but they've failed miserably (Thank God). My wife and I enjoy visiting the all the communities (shopping + eating mostly: indian cuisine is outstanding) and the parades in downtown toronto throughout the summer without feeling the tension from a decades long identity politics campaign.
 

Tak7

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Nov 1, 2009
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GTA or the UK
1. Jays
2. Leafs
3. Raptors
4. TFC

People overlook the Jays because of their attendance records, but when the Jays were relevant just a few short years ago, the dome was packed and it was a special place to be.

Toronto is a massive, multi-cultural city. Baseball is a very easy-to-understand sport that can be watched very casually without the craze or attention that is required in Hockey or Basketball.
 

LeafFever

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Feb 12, 2016
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The Jays are a very beloved team nationwide. I don't think there's a Canadian franchise that is that liked and not hated from coast to coast.
 

sxvnert

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Nov 23, 2015
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People overlook the Jays because of their attendance records, but when the Jays were relevant just a few short years ago, the dome was packed and it was a special place to be.
Proof that the majority are only interested when the team is doing well. Leafs are the only team in hockey and all sports canada wide whose attendance levels never drops regardless of how well the team is doing. Not to mention the amount of fans during the away games.
 

The CyNick

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1. Jays
2. Leafs
3. Raptors
4. TFC

People overlook the Jays because of their attendance records, but when the Jays were relevant just a few short years ago, the dome was packed and it was a special place to be.

Toronto is a massive, multi-cultural city. Baseball is a very easy-to-understand sport that can be watched very casually without the craze or attention that is required in Hockey or Basketball.

Leafs in the Finals would dwarf anything the Jays ever have done.
 
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WilliamInLondon

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Mar 24, 2016
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I grew up in a neighborhood outside of Toronto where ethnic minorities were the majority. They all embraced the Leafs during the Sundin era. It's not entirely the ethnic composition of the fans that is seeing the Raptors gain fanbase (possibly at the Leafs' expense) - it's various things like the cost of equipment, opportunities to play the sport (in urban areas), and how the sports are promoted/broadcasted. I find it somewhat odd that in a country as diverse as Canada, almost all of the hockey pundits are middle-aged white males. Compare that to basketball, baseball, or football in Canada (or the US), and you can feel the massive disconnect there.
 
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The CyNick

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Sep 17, 2009
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I grew up in a neighborhood outside of Toronto where ethnic minorities were the majority. They all embraced the Leafs during the Sundin era. It's not entirely the ethnic composition of the fans that is seeing the Raptors gain fanbase (possibly at the Leafs' expense) - it's various things like the cost of equipment, opportunities to play the sport (in urban areas), and how the sports are promoted/broadcasted. I find it somewhat odd that in a country as diverse as Canada, almost all of the hockey pundits are middle-aged white males. Compare that to basketball, baseball, or football in Canada (or the US), and you can feel the massive disconnect there.

It's a function of the demographic that plays the game at a high level. When PK Subban is done, he'll have a TV job waiting for him if he wants it.

Most play by play guys have been in the game for a long time. You can't just shoehorn visible minorities into jobs like that. Are you going to replace a former player like Kypper with a random minority just to fill a quota? Well maybe if the CBC still had a say it would be like that.
 

Judas Tavares

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I think another thing to consider is today's world and what people like and where they wish to be noticed/recognized. In the world of social media where people can follow everything that their fave celeb does at their fingertips, superstars rule. NBA stars are cool and a big part of pop culture. Hockey players are not. Baseball players not as much either, but more than hockey.

Also in the world of social media, it's all about what you are experiencing and to make your friends jealous. "Where is the hippest place to be and how can I associate with that." Courtside near LeBron is a lot more of a "Omg look where I am" experience than with the suits watching some guy in a helmet behind glass. Do people want to associate with Drake looking all cool at the Raptors game, or Mike Myers looking like a goof in his jersey?

The Jays games have worked recently as "The cheap place to be where I can be get tanked off my ass."
 

13pacheco31

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Jan 17, 2014
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Broad generalization (but no definite there are some exceptions obviously)

Blacks: Into NBA

Indians: Into NBA, new immigrants into cricket

Middle Eastern/Muslims: Into soccer

Asians seem more into basketball too, never really see them into hockey

Jays people will bandwagon but baseball is not a huge sport
I think you're off the mark on most of these. I'm from Brampton and I can assure you that Indians and middleeasterns alike will get behind the leafs.
 

saffronleaf

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May 17, 2011
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Toronto, ON
after raptor games, theres raptors post game show on raps tv and they show the crowd leave in the background as commentators talk about the game...if you watch the crowd leave, its literally a bit of everything, whites, blacks, men, women, asian, brown, just everything...if they did this with the leafs, or even looking into the crowd during games when camers are on it, you really dont see too much diversity

On the bright side, the Leafs arena is actually very diverse when you compare it to most other arenas, except for Vancouver.

I've lived in Toronto, Vancouver, Detroit and Denver. In places like Detroit and Denver, I kind of feel like I have to explain myself / prove myself as a hockey fan because I don't look it. It's a lot different in Toronto, although my experience is probably biased since most of my hockey fan friends are also visible minorities.

Just basing it off my anecdotal experiences.
 

saffronleaf

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May 17, 2011
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Toronto, ON
I think you're off the mark on most of these. I'm from Brampton and I can assure you that Indians and middleeasterns alike will get behind the leafs.

I think people would be positively surprised by how many hockey fans there are in places like Brampton and Surrey.

The Leafs being terrible for a decade-plus really hurts in some recent immigrant communities, because hockey fandom often isn't inherited from parents. So when the team sucks, there's not as much reason to get interested.
 

TheBeastCoast

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Mar 23, 2011
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I have spent a lot of time in different parts of the country including time in Toronto. I feel as though the Jays and Raptors are kind of interchangeable when it comes to which team is 2 and 3 in Toronto. But outside of Toronto it really isn't even close. The Jays are far and away the more popular team. Basketball just hasn't really gotten that popular outside of the GTA yet. But if anyone thinks either team is close to taking over for the Leafs they are crazy. The Jays benefit a lot from being the only team of the 3 playing all summer long. Meanwhile the Raptors have been better then the Leafs for a lot longer. There was a ton of apathetic fans of this team not even 2 years ago. Of course younger fans flocked to the Raptors. Give it another 3 years when the Leafs are contenders year in year out and have been for 5 years while the Raptors start falling off and the gap will only get bigger. The real order is Leafs----Jays--Raptors-TFC.
 
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Scott Malkinson

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Sep 29, 2017
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I wouldn't consider myself Middle Eastern per se, but I do come from that background and I love baseball.

I love baseball too but if you're 1st generation Canadian, I promise you your parents likely have no time for baseball if basketball, hockey or soccer are on.

At least that's been my experience my whole life.
 

Metroid

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Sep 6, 2006
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I think another thing to consider is today's world and what people like and where they wish to be noticed/recognized. In the world of social media where people can follow everything that their fave celeb does at their fingertips, superstars rule. NBA stars are cool and a big part of pop culture. Hockey players are not. Baseball players not as much either, but more than hockey.

Also in the world of social media, it's all about what you are experiencing and to make your friends jealous. "Where is the hippest place to be and how can I associate with that." Courtside near LeBron is a lot more of a "Omg look where I am" experience than with the suits watching some guy in a helmet behind glass. Do people want to associate with Drake looking all cool at the Raptors game, or Mike Myers looking like a goof in his jersey?

The Jays games have worked recently as "The cheap place to be where I can be get tanked off my ass."

That just shows people are shallow and lame.
I don't give a poop about sitting next to lebron. Drake is a clown, 6ix is the most idiotic thing ever and anyone that drinks his "whiskey" and likes it, loses any credibility when it comes to anything.

Leafs are number one because even the haters will come out of the woodwork to party and celebrate a cup win and claim they were always "fans". They most likely even be the dumb f***s that go out and break shit after and ruin it for the actual fans. (hopefully that does not happen)
 
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TheTotalPackage

Registered User
Sep 14, 2006
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The Leafs will always be number one. But I think the gap amongst the "up and coming", younger generation is much narrower amongst Leaf fans and Blue Jays/Raptors fans than it was the generations prior.

I wouldn't completely discount the Raptors and their popularity in the future. I do believe they have made serious inroads within Toronto and the surrounding area.
 

DatSnipeMatthews

Registered User
Oct 5, 2017
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Canada
Given that white people make up somewhere around 95-98% of the NHL players, and that predominately privileged white families can afford to put their kids in hockey, I'd say the Raptors are probably more popular in the GTA.
 

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