News Article: Are the Kings being proactive enough in their rebuild?

Herby

Now I can die in peace
Feb 27, 2002
26,230
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Mullett Lake, MI
No we just have two Stanley Cups.

Basically all the terrible moves the Kings started making happened after June 2014. The following things contributed nothing to winning the SC's, so why do we use that excuse.

- Not buying out Mike Richards
- Re-signing 32 year old Gabby for 6 years
- Re-signing Greene for 4 years
- The Lucic trade
- The Kopitar extension
- The Doughty extension
- The Sekera trade
- Not trading multiple veteran players between 2016&2018.
- Not firing Sutter
- Hiring Stevens
- Hiring Willie D

There is a reason no one criticizes things like the original Richards trade or the Penner trade, because those things contributed to SC's. The GM made a good read on the team and added the right pieces. Unfortunately the Kings haven't really had GM's make good reads on the team since.
 

kingsholygrail

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Basically all the terrible moves the Kings started making happened after June 2014. The following things contributed nothing to winning the SC's, so why do we use that excuse.

- Not buying out Mike Richards
- Re-signing 32 year old Gabby for 6 years
- Re-signing Greene for 4 years
- The Lucic trade
- The Kopitar extension
- The Doughty extension
- The Sekera trade
- Not trading multiple veteran players between 2016&2018.
- Not firing Sutter
- Hiring Stevens
- Hiring Willie D

There is a reason no one criticizes things like the original Richards trade or the Penner trade, because those things contributed to SC's. The GM made a good read on the team and added the right pieces. Unfortunately the Kings haven't really had GM's make good reads on the team since.
Do you acknowledge that DL wasn't responsible for Sekera blowing his knee three games after the trade? Or Voynov bloodying his wife at the beginning of the season? Or Mike Richards being a drug addict?
 
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Herby

Now I can die in peace
Feb 27, 2002
26,230
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Mullett Lake, MI
Do you acknowledge that DL wasn't responsible for Sekera blowing his knee three games after the trade? Or Voynov bloodying his wife at the beginning of the season? Or Mike Richards being a drug addict?

I never faulted DL for bringing in Mike Richards. It was the right move at the right time to put the team over the top. The fault on DL was not realizing that Mike Richards ceased being an NHL player sometime in the fall of 2013 and doing nothing about it, when he had every opportunity. That and the Gaborik extension just showed that DL was completely out of touch with what he had preached his previous years in LA.

The Voynov situation was bad luck, no doubt about it. But there were big issues that were going to prevent the team from competing again. They have won one playoff game since 2014, a second pairing defenseman wasn't going to change that.
 

kingsholygrail

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I never faulted DL for bringing in Mike Richards. It was the right move at the right time to put the team over the top. The fault on DL was not realizing that Mike Richards ceased being an NHL player sometime in the fall of 2013 and doing nothing about it, when he had every opportunity. That and the Gaborik extension just showed that DL was completely out of touch with what he had preached his previous years in LA.

The Voynov situation was bad luck, no doubt about it. But there were big issues that were going to prevent the team from competing again. They have won one playoff game since 2014, a second pairing defenseman wasn't going to change that.
They missed the playoffs by a couple points. Voynov could have been that difference and then who knows. Sekera could have resolved that problem if he didn't get hurt.
 

bland

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Jul 1, 2004
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Do you acknowledge that DL wasn't responsible for Sekera blowing his knee three games after the trade? Or Voynov bloodying his wife at the beginning of the season? Or Mike Richards being a drug addict?

Why is it one or the other?

Lombardi's guile and skill led a steady plan from next to nothing to two Cups and three straight conference finals, but his hubris led to over-extensions, a complete wipe out of the asset list, and a lingering malaise that will likely continue for the next few seasons.

We can both celebrate and rue his performance. Just so happens that we are still right smack in the middle of the negative aspects of his decision making.

I think it is pretty amazing that he won two Cups with a core of Kopitar, Doughty, Quick and Brown. That particular group of misfits definitely have their talents, but they were a group who had plateaued and stagnated as a first round out.

It was to Lombardi's credit that he assessed the problems with the nature of those players early on in their careers and had both the insight and ability to go and get the right kind of team-first players who could surround that talent with real professionalism and charachter at great cost to the franchise. It took several years to amass enough real leadership to supplement the lack of it in the players they had drafted and developed. And he had to bring in a hard line coach to shake the sand out of their skates.

What really closed the window was losing all of the charachter and leadership of Richards, Williams, Stoll, Greene and Mitchell without gaining even a measly 7th rounder in return. Losing those players, and giving out too many extensions to the wrong players, combined with trading away every stinking asset left the team locked into a lousy roster who could never assimilate that leadership and the inability to afford it from the outside thru free agency or trade for it with nothing to offer.

Lombardi did that. And I think that his poor judgement was so widely known that it has kept him from returning to that position elsewhere.
 

bland

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I never faulted DL for bringing in Mike Richards. It was the right move at the right time to put the team over the top. The fault on DL was not realizing that Mike Richards ceased being an NHL player sometime in the fall of 2013 and doing nothing about it, when he had every opportunity. That and the Gaborik extension just showed that DL was completely out of touch with what he had preached his previous years in LA.

The Voynov situation was bad luck, no doubt about it. But there were big issues that were going to prevent the team from competing again. They have won one playoff game since 2014, a second pairing defenseman wasn't going to change that.

Richards very well may not have been available to be bought out. Nobody can talk about it openly except Richards due to HIPAA and the CBA, but it is likely that a player actively enrolled in the Wellness Program could be considered similarly to an injury and not eligible for buyout.
 
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kingsholygrail

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Why is it one or the other?

Lombardi's guile and skill led a steady plan from next to nothing to two Cups and three straight conference finals, but his hubris led to over-extensions, a complete wipe out of the asset list, and a lingering malaise that will likely continue for the next few seasons.

We can both celebrate and rue his performance. Just so happens that we are still right smack in the middle of the negative aspects of his decision making.

I think it is pretty amazing that he won two Cups with a core of Kopitar, Doughty, Quick and Brown. That particular group of misfits definitely have their talents, but they were a group who had plateaued and stagnated as a first round out.

It was to Lombardi's credit that he assessed the problems with the nature of those players early on in their careers and had both the insight and ability to go and get the right kind of team-first players who could surround that talent with real professionalism and charachter at great cost to the franchise. It took several years to amass enough real leadership to supplement the lack of it in the players they had drafted and developed. And he had to bring in a hard line coach to shake the sand out of their skates.

What really closed the window was losing all of the charachter and leadership of Richards, Williams, Stoll, Greene and Mitchell without gaining even a measly 7th rounder in return. Losing those players, and giving out too many extensions to the wrong players, combined with trading away every stinking asset left the team locked into a lousy roster who could never assimilate that leadership and the inability to afford it from the outside thru free agency or trade for it with nothing to offer.

Lombardi did that. And I think that his poor judgement was so widely known that it has kept him from returning to that position elsewhere.
What would you have gotten for them? Who was going to take them? I don't know why we dwell on decisions made 3-5 years ago when the organization didn't even feel they needed a rebuild until this year.
 
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Johnny Utah

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Santa Monica, CA
Why are they are focused on Carter - he is the least of our worries.

These should be the Kings priorities...

Moving Kovy, figuring out what to do with Toffoli, trading Lewis, re-signing Clifford should be the priorities.

Figuring out what to do in goal with Quick and Campbell.

Finding a D partner for Doughty.
 

kilowatt

the vibes are not immaculate
Jan 1, 2009
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Why are they are focused on Carter - he is the least of our worries.

These should be the Kings priorities...

Moving Kovy, figuring out what to do with Toffoli, trading Lewis, re-signing Clifford should be the priorities.

Figuring out what to do in goal with Quick and Campbell.

Finding a D partner for Doughty.

I mostly agree. I think it would be a real win if we could get assets for Kovalchuk, Toffoli, and Campbell this season. No one wants Quick or Lewis. Martinez and Carter have value, so moving them shouldn’t be difficult. If we can end up with an extra first, second, and third this year, that would be great.
 

deaderhead28

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Jul 3, 2010
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Not af fan of writers who repeat the same debunked rumors.Carter came out and denied he was going to retire if traded.:facepalm:
 
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Statto

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I mostly agree. I think it would be a real win if we could get assets for Kovalchuk, Toffoli, and Campbell this season. No one wants Quick or Lewis. Martinez and Carter have value, so moving them shouldn’t be difficult. If we can end up with an extra first, second, and third this year, that would be great.
Carter looks to me like he might come out of it and he certainly isn’t hiding, so I think he may still have value by the TDL, right now I don’t see anyone wanting him. If he really would retire if he were traded though, it’s never going to happen. However, I cannot think of a single team that Martinez helps, certainly not one that pulls the trigger on a deal that nets us assets.

As I’ve said, I’m ok with moving any of the players you mention but so far no one can identify a market for them. Certainly not one that returns any meaningful assets. Right now it’s wishful thinking at best. At the very least we have to wait and be patient and hope a couple of them start showing some sort of form. As things are right now we won’t be moving any of them this side of Christmas.
 

KingsFan7824

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Dec 4, 2003
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I never faulted DL for bringing in Mike Richards. It was the right move at the right time to put the team over the top. The fault on DL was not realizing that Mike Richards ceased being an NHL player sometime in the fall of 2013 and doing nothing about it, when he had every opportunity. That and the Gaborik extension just showed that DL was completely out of touch with what he had preached his previous years in LA.

The Voynov situation was bad luck, no doubt about it. But there were big issues that were going to prevent the team from competing again. They have won one playoff game since 2014, a second pairing defenseman wasn't going to change that.

It didn't put them over the top. How many moves had to made after getting Richards to put the team over the top? Had to fire the coach, and bring in a friend to coach the team, which wasn't the plan. Without King and Nolan, the depth isn't as good as it was, and neither guy was really on any radar. Then they had to get Carter on top of that, because they weren't able to replace the depth lost with Simmonds(Schenn and Richards cancel out in terms of roster position) because Gagne got hurt.

Why are they are focused on Carter - he is the least of our worries.

These should be the Kings priorities...

Moving Kovy, figuring out what to do with Toffoli, trading Lewis, re-signing Clifford should be the priorities.

Figuring out what to do in goal with Quick and Campbell.

Finding a D partner for Doughty.

The order of priorities is equal to the ease with which something can be done. Finding a partner for Doughty isn't even on the list, because you're not going to do it. It's going to have to come from within, and that takes time. Carter isn't going anywhere. Kovalchuk isn't going anywhere, but maybe at this time next year. Maybe gets bought out in June. Quick's not going anywhere. He will either get bought out, or Campbell will be traded eventually. Before the summer, but certainly before next season starts. Toffoli and Lewis will be dealt at the deadline. Clifford should be as well.
 

FrozenKing18

Goongala! Goongala!
Aug 11, 2009
6,818
1,266
SoCal
Christ, are we really still talking about what we "lost" on the Mike Richards and Jeff Carter trades? Some of you guys really just can't let it go huh? TWO f***ING Stanley Cups. That's what we got from those trades. Were you dwelling over the depth that we lost while the whole team were lifting those two cups over their heads? You would rather keep your precious depth than those two cups? You guys are ridiculous sometimes.
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
32,320
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Christ, are we really still talking about what we "lost" on the Mike Richards and Jeff Carter trades? Some of you guys really just can't let it go huh? TWO ****ING Stanley Cups. That's what we got from those trades. Were you dwelling over the depth that we lost while the whole team were lifting those two cups over their heads? You would rather keep your precious depth than those two cups? You guys are ridiculous sometimes.
I don't think anyone has raised an objection to the original trades for Carter and Richards.
 

Bandit

Registered User
Jul 23, 2005
32,435
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Unemployed in Greenland
Basically all the terrible moves the Kings started making happened after June 2014. The following things contributed nothing to winning the SC's, so why do we use that excuse.

- Not buying out Mike Richards
- Re-signing 32 year old Gabby for 6 years
- Re-signing Greene for 4 years
- The Lucic trade
- The Kopitar extension
- The Doughty extension
- The Sekera trade
- Not trading multiple veteran players between 2016&2018.
- Not firing Sutter
- Hiring Stevens
- Hiring Willie D

There is a reason no one criticizes things like the original Richards trade or the Penner trade, because those things contributed to SC's. The GM made a good read on the team and added the right pieces. Unfortunately the Kings haven't really had GM's make good reads on the team since.
Don't care. Two cups.

Also, I don't need "excuses" for anything. This is entertainment. It's not my job and I'm not responsible for what happens in any way shape or form. Some of you take this crap WAY too seriously and need to find a way to LET IT GO.
 

Choralone

Registered User
Oct 16, 2010
5,003
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Burbank, CA
Not af fan of writers who repeat the same debunked rumors.Carter came out and denied he was going to retire if traded.:facepalm:

Well, Carter denying doesn't necessarily mean it was "debunked." The author responded in the comments:

@Ken C. Publicly stated yes ... but I do trust the info that was given to me. Also I don't think the retirement rumor came out of thin air. Plus the journalists who reported it are generally very careful.
 

kingsboy11

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Dec 14, 2011
11,516
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USA
The whole Carter retiring thing was probably a rumor put out there by his agent trying to protect his client who doesn't have a NTC/NMC
 

KINGS17

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Apr 6, 2006
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Why would he retire? Any location he's traded to is a better team than what he's leaving
It probably depends on where the Kings tried to trade Carter, and whether or not his plan is to retire in Southern California. He has a wife and child now and he may not be to keen on relocating his family.

Carter has three years remaining on his contract including this season. He is going to make $3M, $2M, and $2M in the remaining three years of his current contract, which is sure to be his last. Carter has already collected over $51M of his $58M contract.
 

Mats26

Vet Movement - What's the Maatta?
Sep 16, 2005
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The article is missing the biggest reason why we are in this mess to begin with. Our drafting during the cup years was atrocious. From 2011-2016, 6 years of drafting our best draft pick that could of helped this team today is Cernak, and he was traded before he had a chance to prove himself. Pearson was good for a few years now gone. The rest Kempe,Wagner, Roy, Amadio are fillers. No impact player, not one, in 6 years of drafting. It seems we got caught up in the cup runs that we simply forgot to scout and draft talent.

So who are the transitioning players (24-27 year olds) on this team? We don't have any. Blake had to go the NCAA route to try to sign some.

The point is we are left with Vets who play the mentor roles while trying to produce. Production should of been eased into these transitional players and let the vets mentor and provide leadership to the new prospects.
 
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deaderhead28

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Well, Carter denying doesn't necessarily mean it was "debunked." The author responded in the comments:
If theres no proof, it's a accusation that has never been proven and is consider fake news.The player has since came out and debunked or disputed these cliams.
 
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kingsholygrail

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Imagine if it went down like asking Carter what he'd think about being traded back to Columbus and him saying "I'd retire" then that being turned into "If Carter is traded, he'll retire."
 

Legionnaire

Help On The Way
Jul 10, 2002
44,253
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LA-LA Land
The article is missing the biggest reason why we are in this mess to begin with. Our drafting during the cup years was atrocious. From 2011-2016, 6 years of drafting our best draft pick that could of helped this team today is Cernak, and he was traded before he had a chance to prove himself. Pearson was good for a few years now gone. The rest Kempe,Wagner, Roy, Amadio are fillers. No impact player, not one, in 6 years of drafting. It seems we got caught up in the cup runs that we simply forgot to scout and draft talent.

So who are the transitioning players (24-27 year olds) on this team? We don't have any. Blake had to go the NCAA route to try to sign some.

The point is we are left with Vets who play the mentor roles while trying to produce. Production should of been eased into these transitional players and let the vets mentor and provide leadership to the new prospects.

Agree. Those two trades cost us guys who would seriously have helped. No real top six or top 4 dmen since Pearson. Different team with Klefbom and Connor.
 

kings11

Registered User
Sep 29, 2011
6,209
4,016
Las Vegas
Basically all the terrible moves the Kings started making happened after June 2014. The following things contributed nothing to winning the SC's, so why do we use that excuse.

- Not buying out Mike Richards
- Re-signing 32 year old Gabby for 6 years
- Re-signing Greene for 4 years
- The Lucic trade
- The Kopitar extension
- The Doughty extension
- The Sekera trade
- Not trading multiple veteran players between 2016&2018.
- Not firing Sutter
- Hiring Stevens
- Hiring Willie D

There is a reason no one criticizes things like the original Richards trade or the Penner trade, because those things contributed to SC's. The GM made a good read on the team and added the right pieces. Unfortunately the Kings haven't really had GM's make good reads on the team since.

Let me adjust this for you Herby....
- The Kopitar and Doughty extension were always going to happen, period. They were good moves and are not the reason this team has bottomed out.
The following moves dramatically hurt the Kings for various reasons..

- Re-signing 32 year old Gabby for 6 years - Should have been allowed to move on, instead it pushed JDub out... Key Figure in teh Leadership dept..
- Re-signing Greene for 4 years - Should have been allowed to move on
- The Lucic trade - Miller would have replaced ^^, the pick could have been Connor by all reports and Martin would have returned a nice pick from some team out East
- Not trading multiple veteran players between 2016&2018... Not moving Carter, Toffoli, Muzzin and/or Marty before the expansion draft where values plummeted really hurt the teams ability to rebuild on the fly
- Not firing Sutter - Fractured the lockerroom and leadership of this team. He also played Kopitar and Doughty into the ground
- Hiring Willie D - The guy was a F-ing idiot..
 

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