Are the Flames Overrated? (Warning: Post 75 & OP)

[Saltcreek]

The main one is that the bottom 6 was good last year and now only bad because of adding a Lucic and Reider. The throw in that it was Flames arrogance that caused this was an added hilarious bonus pile of crap.

The paper tiger comments are also full of crap.

Finally the idea that there is inferiority complex from Calgary towards Edmonton when it is clearly the other way round always makes me laugh.

Adding Lucic and Reider definitely looks like a step back and you will find fans from all teams saying that. You can argue people had to be moved but the addition of those two is probably not going to help. They were terrible in Edmonton and they will probably be terrible in Calgary.

As for the inferiority complex, well, I am not sure where you are getting that from.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

They are definitely overrated, and over-performed big time last year. They are essentially a one line team, and that line is essentially a one man line.

Colorado exposed this weakness and the league is taking notice.

 

[RegDunlop]

The main one is that the bottom 6 was good last year and now only bad because of adding a Lucic and Reider. The throw in that it was Flames arrogance that caused this was an added hilarious bonus pile of crap.

The paper tiger comments are also full of crap.

Finally the idea that there is inferiority complex from Calgary towards Edmonton when it is clearly the other way round always makes me laugh.

Seriously??
Either you're new, young, or very misinformed.

Adding a player that has totally lost his game for 2 1/2 years at a ridiculous salary - and forced to play that player because of it - absolutely weakens your bottom 6. FACT

What else could it be picking up Reider and Talbot when so many others - more competent - available for cheap? Arrogance.
Maybe not fact but ootics are there.

Paper Tiger I don't think came from an Oil fan.

Inferiority? FACT.

 

[Baxterman]

Adding Lucic and Reider definitely looks like a step back and you will find fans from all teams saying that. You can argue people had to be moved but the addition of those two is probably not going to help. They were terrible in Edmonton and they will probably be terrible in Calgary.

As for the inferiority complex, well, I am not sure where you are getting that from.

The Flames bottom 6 last was a major problem. Switching Lucic for Neal and Reider for Hathaway are lateral moves. Neither guy is good enough but they aren’t downgraded on what we had last year.

Hopefully Dube replaces Lucic soon. I am fine with Reider in the 4th line he isn’t great but isn’t terrible either in a 5 min ES time and 2nd unit PKer role.

 

[Saltcreek]

The Flames bottom 6 last was a major problem. Switching Lucic for Neal and Reider for Hathaway are lateral moves. Neither guy is good enough but they aren’t downgraded on what we had last year.

Hopefully Dube replaces Lucic soon. I am fine with Reider in the 4th line he isn’t great but isn’t terrible either in a 5 min ES time and 2nd unit PKer role.

I can see Reider being a lateral move but unless Lucic somehow finds his game again he will always be a downgrade from Neal. I do agree that Neal had to be moved but not for Lucic. Either way, you have already stated you hope Dube can fill his slot which will put that to rest when it happens.

 

[McDNicks17]

They are definitely overrated, and over-performed big time last year. They are essentially a one line team, and that line is essentially a one man line.

Colorado exposed this weakness and the league is taking notice.

And unfortunately that player is basically just a $6.75M cap hit once it gets to playoff time.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

And unfortunately that player is basically just a $6.75M cap hit once it gets to playoff time.

I think any player that gets shadowed / double teamed in a playoff series is going to struggle to produce. We saw the same thing with McDavid vs Anaheim.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

I addressed the garbage about the bottom 6 above.


Paper tiger 100% came from an Oiler fan.

And the inferiority complex is definitely an Edmonton thing. Not just in hickey but life overall. I don’t blame them it is a completely understandable feeling that they have.

You have zero idea what you're talking about. And bringing non hockey things into it is pathetic.

To everyone else, this is the same poster that thought there were 5 players who had better seasons than Ovechkin in his Art Ross, Hart, Pearson, and Richard season. Also the same poster who said a couple days ago that the Flames have 20 (twenty) players better than James Neal.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

They are a good team. Even when they lose they still put up a good battle (don't get massively out shot). I don't have them as one of the elite teams, but they should make the playoffs no problem.

That Lucic trade is awful though.

 

[Baxterman]

They are definitely overrated, and over-performed big time last year. They are essentially a one line team, and that line is essentially a one man line.

Colorado exposed this weakness and the league is taking notice.

One man line?

Lindholm and a Gaudreau are clearly not as good as Monahan but it is far from a one man line. Now that they got rid of the deadwood that’s was Ferland it is one of the best lives in hockey that has all 3 guys working well together.

You are rarely going to get 3 evenly matched guys but Monahan is not so far ahead of the other two that it is a one man line.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

One man line?

Lindholm and a Gaudreau are clearly not as good as Monahan but it is far from a one man line. Now that they got rid of the deadwood that’s was Ferland it is one of the best lives in hockey that has all 3 guys working well together.

You are rarely going to get 3 evenly matched guys but Monahan is not so far ahead of the other two that it is a one man line.

Indeed

 

[Puckluck13]

They are definitely overrated, and over-performed big time last year. They are essentially a one line team, and that line is essentially a one man line.

Colorado exposed this weakness and the league is taking notice.

A one line team made the flames the 2nd highest scoring team last year?

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

No way they are as good as last year's point total. That said, I didn't really see a lot of Flames hype in the offseason, so hard to call them overrated. They should still be a playoff team in the Pacific.

 

[TrueTT]

They overachieved a bit last year but I still think they're a playoff team. They just have to stop playing the Oilers castoffs and they'll be fine. If Gio declines rapidly then they might be in trouble too, I suppose.

They didn’t overachieve last year. They were a top-5 team in nearly every category of advanced stats determining whether or not a team is playing winning hockey: All-strengths Corsi, Fenwick, SF, xGF, SCF and HDCF.

This year is the exact opposite in most of their games. By the numbers they actually haven’t played like a good team until this weekend when their goaltending has shat the bed.

 

[TrueTT]

How many of their core players had career-years? Four?

With the exception of Giordano, that makes perfect sense though.

Their big-4 forwards are all young/just wading into their primes. It’s not aberrant the way it would be had they been like all north of 30.

 

[Puckluck13]

They didn’t overachieve last year. They were a top-5 team in nearly every category of advanced stats determining whether or not a team is playing winning hockey: All-strengths Corsi, Fenwick, SF, xGF, SCF and HDCF.

This year is the exact opposite in most of their games. By the numbers they actually haven’t played like a good team until this weekend when their goaltending has shat the bed.

So the opposite of what the advanced stats are saying about the Oilers first 5 games.

 

[TrueTT]

So the opposite of what the advanced stats are saying about the Oilers first 5 games.

Actually the Oilers were categorically the worse team across the board against the Canucks and Devils.

They were definitively the better team against the Islanders and Rangers, marginally the better team against the Kings although that’s debatable as we all saw how much Mike Smith nearly cost them that game.

So 3/5 good games is not the same as 5 deserving wins. Edmonton is lucky as hell they aren’t 3-2 right now. Thank Smith and Koskinen and some fortunate bounces.

 

[Suntouchable13]

last year they got at least 15 wins with last minute comebacks. They'd get a goal in the last minute that bounced off of four shoulders two legs and a stick laying on the ice to end up behind the goalie. They already did it once or twice this year. They were lucky last year, but that kind of luck cannot possibly continue. They take a step back this year without question.

What's a step back, though? If they don't win the division/Western Conference in the regular season but advance in the playoffs, wouldn't that be considered a step forward?

 

[Saltcreek]

Actually the Oilers were categorically the worse team across the board against the Canucks and Devils.

They were definitively the better team against the Islanders and Rangers, marginally the better team against the Kings although that’s debatable as we all saw how much Mike Smith nearly cost them that game.

So 3/5 good games is not the same as 5 deserving wins. Edmonton is lucky as hell they aren’t 3-2 right now. Thank Smith and Koskinen and some fortunate bounces.

Every team wins games that they should have lost and the Flames are no different. There is no point in bringing this up as it really proves nothing.

Also, complaining about Oilers fans commenting on a thread on the main boards is pretty rich considering there are a couple Flames fans that troll every Oiler thread.

 

[TrueTT]

Every team wins games that they should have lost and the Flames are no different. There is no point in bringing this up as it really proves nothing.

Also, complaining about Oilers fans commenting on a thread on the main boards is pretty rich considering there are a couple Flames fans that troll every Oiler thread.

No shit.

My point is about the sustainability of that cycle. The wins that the Oilers had over the Kings and *especially* the New York teams is indicative of sound structure and execution. That is sustainable provided they don’t suffer injuries to their core players and Tippett continues to coach the way he has.

But their wins against the Canucks and Devils are not, precisely because neither Smith nor Koskinen can tend the pipes at like a Bobrovsky, Price, etc level for 65+ games.

 

[Whiston532]

With Lucic’s tenacity/60 we should all consider ourselves luck to even be in the same league as Calgary.

 

[CanadienShark]

Middle of the road team. Not the top team that some thought they were last year.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

A one line team made the flames the 2nd highest scoring team last year?

Essentially, yes. Their top line had 97 goals and 259 points, and they had 5 players (all on their first PP unit) with more than 70 points.

 

[bronco73]

What's a step back, though? If they don't win the division/Western Conference in the regular season but advance in the playoffs, wouldn't that be considered a step forward?

That's how I'm thinking anyways. A worse regular season, I can't see them winning the conference or the division this season, and I see them barely squeaking into the playoffs. I see that as a step back from a conference champion acing a playoff spot weeks before season end and walking int the playoffs as a SCF favorite. They've replaced better players with worse ones, losing Valamaki hurts, trading Smith for Talbot is a downgrade, both Jankowski and Bennett seem to be begging for the pressbox, and bringing in Lucic to suddenly be the teams "enforcer" while the entire roster aside from him and maybe one other run away screaming from any physicality is not going to make them any better to weather the storm in the playoffs.

 

[BHD]

This thread isn't going to have fanbases (for lack of a better word) flaming each other or other posters adding fuel to the fire. The next person to do so will be handed an infraction and a thread ban.