Speculation: Are Sabres a worse team as of now, then last season?

[HaNotsri]

I'm dumb! Haven't watched hockey since 78. But you're in the know. .... Look out Montreal !! Stanley Cup parade incoming!! You gHOW ot Joel Armia!!

They got him for nothing. We traded ROR for a return that didn’t have Joel Armia level players. That is terrible any way you turn it. Sobotka/Berglund level olayers could’ve been added while receiving draft picks for taking the cap dumps on.

 

[Kyndig]

We are way worse. We could’ve added Riley Nash+Grabner instead of Berglund+Sobotka. Then we would’ve been faster.

Our young players improving could lead to a better season but this is worse than the Hall/Larsson trade. At least Chia targeted a need.

They tried to sign Grabner but he didn't want to come here. Idk about Nash. People slot in all these UFAs as if they want to come here.

 

[sabresfan129103]

What are people expecting from Mittelstadt next season? The way some people talk around here you would think they are penciling him in for 60+ points. if he scores 40-45 I'll be thrilled.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

They tried to sign Grabner but he didn't want to come here. Idk about Nash. People slot in all these UFAs as if they want to come here.

Maybe they would have come here if our bum GM didn’t spend negotiations tipping his hand that he was trading O’Reilly for scraps.

 

[Panthaz89]

They tried to sign Grabner but he didn't want to come here. Idk about Nash. People slot in all these UFAs as if they want to come here.

why the heck would anybody want to come here? We've finished last 3 out of the past 5 years and we trade away the hard workers on long term contracts for skittles.

 

[CaptPantalones]

Optimistically, I think they end up better. They're still deep at center with adding Berglund and Sobotka. Thompson I really feel will be a big time winger in this league...

And i really think there's another move coming. You now have 3 1st round picks and some depth guys to chase another winger..

Or maybe, just maybe, Botts has his eye on the RFA market.. does he try to poach Willie Nylander? Ottawa is supposedly having bad talks with Mark Stone... opens up a lot of possibilities

 

[HaNotsri]

They tried to sign Grabner but he didn't want to come here. Idk about Nash. People slot in all these UFAs as if they want to come here.

Yeah, but there are many players as good or better than Sobotka/Berglund that we could sign instead of taking on cap dumps. Replace Grabner with Rieder or some SHL winger that we could’ve signed before the 15th of june.
Complete suicide-trade by Botts.

 

[old kummelweck]

Um - it is impossible to be worse than last year, not unless the league has a surprise expansion in 2018/19.

• goaltending - including org depth looks better
• defense - including org depth looks better
• center - they still have jack, and essentially you swap out ROR for Mittelstadt and bring in some depth vets. Asplund and Pu will be developing and pushing from the farm. Reinhart looks like he will get another look - this is a gamble, but could really pay off.
• lw - they lose Kane here, but they also gain by subtraction. I loved Evanders grit, and they will miss that, but he was a possession nightmare and had a tough time plugging into your top centers. His style also is prone to injury. They definately got deeper at LW, and shored up that position with Sheary, Sobotka and Bergun, who all can play that position. They need some of the young guys to step up here in the org (looking at Nylander). This position just got more defensively responsible, but also has more scoring punch.
• rw - this is a push. essentially the same as last year, but there is an x-factor in this kid they brought over from STL. They did not improve or get worse here.
• The PP does not need ROR. It was almost an obligation that they had to play ROR on the PP to justify his price tag. Now they have Dahlin. The PP looks better
• The PK will be worse if a specialist does not emerge from the org that can help at the dot in the defensive zone. Maybe this is where we see someone like Malone. Not sure where the other two acquisitions from STL fit into the whole PK. The rest of the cast of characters don't change. BUF was 22 out of 31 teams on the PK last season, so I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep over the loss of ROR here.

As a whole, I don't see this roster as worse, but I will admit it is going to be a tough road if the goals against start piling up at even strength against their #1, #2 and #3 centers.

 

[debaser66]

After JB made us worse and got nothing worthwile back to replace ROR not much.

 

[truthbluth]

Doesn't look great on paper, but hockey isn't played on paper. Who had LVK as a playoff team last year, much less finalists?

The analytics community thought Vegas was a playoff team.

 

[truthbluth]

Slept on it, but i still can’t find my rose colored glasses. I think I need to check out for the rest of the summer. The roster managed to get slower, older and less skilled. I’d rather not drop Mitts into a top 6 role, but if you don’t, good grief that is easily the worst top 6 in the league despite having one of the very best young stars in the game. I can’t keep thinking about this.

 

[Sabre Dance]

What are people expecting from Mittelstadt next season? The way some people talk around here you would think they are penciling him in for 60+ points. if he scores 40-45 I'll be thrilled.

Around 40. He may get more 1st unit PP time now though with O'Reilly gone.

 

[Zip15]

I think the more appropriate question is "Are the Sabres a better roster than before they traded ROR?" I'm a firm no on that question.

 

[Sabre Dance]

I think the more appropriate question is "Are the Sabres a better roster than before they traded ROR?" I'm a firm no on that question.

They are much better. They have Eichel, Reinhart, Mittelstadt, and Dahlin.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

They are much better. They have Eichel, Reinhart, Mittelstadt, and Dahlin.

And you could have that entire group + O’Reilly instead of garbage and futures.

 

[DapperCam]

Worse on paper. If Lehner, ROR, and Kane were really that bad for the “culture” maybe they’ll be better on the ice.

 

[Sabre Dance]

And you could have that entire group + O’Reilly instead of garbage and futures.

For whatever reason the decision makers traded O'Reilly I don't think we'll ever know why. But this roster has pieces to build around. The trade almost takes pressure off of the young players and puts it on Botterill. No one will blame them for losing. Everyone will blame Botterill.

 

[Zip15]

They are much better. They have Eichel, Reinhart, Mittelstadt, and Dahlin.

We had those guys yesterday, too, before the ROR trade. This is going to be the running battle for the remainder of the offseason: framing the roster versus last season, or viewing it against what it could've been with the additions we had in place along with ROR. We are worse than we were at 3pm yesterday.

 

[haseoke39]

It's a team that's going to rely on rookies. In net, on D, at C. Their theory for improvement is they're going to be led by rookies. So there's a huge range for how well that could go, especially with Dahlin. But the safe bet is all of them start by getting small minutes. All of them make a handful of mistakes that cost games. All of them show their promise and all of them are better in March than in October. But I would expect the team to start very cold.

They lost two of their top scorers from last year, so I do expect scoring to decline. They added Dahlin, but lost their top defensive center. They did upgrade goaltending, which will be a bigger impact than many think.

I think overall it's a gamble on how fast those rookies make an impact. Anytime you're built around youth the team is hard to predict with certainty.

But if I had to pick a most likely outcome, I think in the 60s for points and bottom 5 is the safest.

 

[Sabre Dance]

It's a team that's going to rely on rookies. In net, on D, at C. Their theory for improvement is they're going to be led by rookies. So there's a huge range for how well that could go, especially with Dahlin. But the safe bet is all of them start by getting small minutes. All of them make a handful of mistakes that cost games. All of them show their promise and all of them are better in March than in October. But I would expect the team to start very cold.

They lost two of their top scorers from last year, so I do expect scoring to decline. They added Dahlin, but lost their top defensive center. They did upgrade goaltending, which will be a bigger impact than many think.

I think overall it's a gamble on how fast those rookies make an impact. Anytime you're built around youth the team is hard to predict with certainty.

But if I had to pick a most likely outcome, I think in the 60s for points and bottom 5 is the safest.

Eichel, Reinhart, and Ristolainen need to take over the team. Rookies will have to contribute but it's on those 3 to decide where the Sabres go from here.

 

[1972]

I honestly don’t know what to think, sometimes the team looks worse of paper and gets much better on the ice, sometimes it’s the opposite. None of us know if this is going to work or not.

 

[ninepaces]

how do we feel we stack up against the leafs now?

 

[Dreakon13]

I'm cautiously optimistic. We're worse on paper, but I feel like a lot of this offseason has been to cultivate a better locker room environment... and IMO, that's been the biggest issue facing this team the last few years. Even moreso than talent (or the lack thereof).

We have a TON of young talent joining the Amerks next year (Thompson included now most likely) and they're going to start quickly finding their way onto the Sabres as contracts end and guys get moved the next year or two. Especially with Dahlin and Mittelstadt this year, who are two huge pieces going forward, it was critical Botts isolate whatever the problems in the room might be.

Losing Kane and Lehner was a great start IMO. Maybe ROR was a part of that. That's not to say ROR was some sort of menace or cancer, but just as a fan speculating... while he seems like a really hard working guy and obviously a great talent, I could see a situation where he takes the "loser mentality" a little too far. Especially if he just gave up to start the year as it was alluded to. You can work hard and still be a negative influence with the wrong attitude when the going gets rough. Who knows.


EDIT: It is kinda funny how quickly Botts dismantled literally all of Murray's biggest trades. Not necessarily 'ha ha' funny, but interesting enough for a curious chuckle.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Ha, certainly seems that way unless Dahlin comes as advertised straight out of the gate.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I think a better move would have been to give a 2nd to STL for Berglund and Sobotka (these guys are hardly world beaters but certainly weren't dog shit last year); keep RoR and all his 'issues' then try to deal him next year. Sign Peca from Tampa (at more than Montreal gave him), and start next season with a rebuilt third line. This would have also allowed Eichel, RoR, Middle, Reinhart to play in some combination with each other. Now they'll be spread out.

Thompson could go either way, slow wingers with great hands can have a few good years, but they can also fall off shockingly quick. I don't know what's the likelihood of teaching a 20 year old how to skate faster; but probably poor.

With a change in the net Buffalo could see better results regardless of the front 12. Their goaltending was horrific last year.

The defense could go either way. Scandella and Risto will still be overplayed. But the second & third pairings will improve.

It's too bad Buffalo couldn't have filled in for Montreal on the WPG trade. Armia would look good on Buffalo's 3rd or 4th line. And Mason could have been buried in Rochester.