Are Brodeur&Kipper the most overplayed starting goalies ever in the NHL?

[Artorius Horus T]

Kipper: 7 x (in a row) 70+ game seasons (Kipper had 4 in a row where he played 76 games a season)
Marty: 10 x (in a row) 70+ game seasons, 12 x 70+ game seasons
(Marty played 5 times, 77 games or more a season)

Click to read more...

 

[Nick Hansen]

What do you mean overplayed? If they could do it, they could do it.

Glenn Hall completed every single game for seven straight seasons.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

What do you mean overplayed? If they could do it, they could do it.

Glenn Hall completed every single game for seven straight seasons.

That was the 60's though...
Games are way harder now for a goalie what it were in the 60's.

Not that i'm diminishing Hall's achievements.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

Marty's style of play combined with his supporting cast (Stevens, Nieds, Dano) allowed him to play 70+ games consistently. Could he have been given a few more games off? Sure. Did it have a big effect on the season? Probably not. I can't recall a time (in the prime of his career) where he looked tired in the playoffs.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

That was the 60's though...
Games are way harder now for a goalie what it were in the 60's.

because.... reasons?

^ his practice mask

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

What do you mean overplayed? If they could do it, they could do it.

Glenn Hall completed every single game for seven straight seasons.

which was 70 games per year.

In his 7 year stretch of 70+ starts, Brodeur started 31 more games than Hall
In his 7 year stretch, Kipper started 24 more games than Hall

...not counting playoffs


there is also a strong case that overplayed goalies burn out in the playoffs...see Price, Carey

 

[Nick Hansen]

which was 70 games per year.

In his 7 year stretch of 70+ starts, Brodeur started 31 more games than Hall
In his 7 year stretch, Kipper started 24 more games than Hall

...not counting playoffs

You can only play as many games as there are.

Even still, I don't understand the question. If they could do it, they weren't overplayed.

 

[Doctor No]

If they could do it, they weren't overplayed.

Not necessarily. I mean, technically you or I could play every game of an NHL schedule in goal.

Two relevant questions:

1. Were Brodeur and Kiprusoff (and Hall) a better option for their teams at each point in time for their current status of rest and health than the teams' next available option?
2. Did Brodeur and Kiprusoff (and Hall)'s workload impact them negatively in the playoffs?

 

[blood gin]

I wish Brodeur would've played less games. There were plenty of season s he'd go 70+ and look tired and slow in the playoffs.

But he just flat out wanted to play. Every day, all the time

 

[Nick Hansen]

Not necessarily. I mean, technically you or I could play every game of an NHL schedule in goal.

Two relevant questions:

1. Were Brodeur and Kiprusoff (and Hall) a better option for their teams at each point in time for their current status of rest and health than the teams' next available option?
2. Did Brodeur and Kiprusoff (and Hall)'s workload impact them negatively in the playoffs?

1. How are you going to find out? We can't know for sure. One can guess and have a more or less reasonable opinion. Maybe a guy like Brodeur wants to play a ton and that makes him better in the long run. We can't know for sure.
2. That's something that can be delved into, I think, though. Atleast it should be possible to find a statistical pattern of some sort.

 

[Doctor No]

I'm primarily pointing out that your statement "If they could do it, they weren't overplayed" obfuscates the actual question being asked.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

That was the 60's though...
Games are way harder now for a goalie what it were in the 60's.

Not that i'm diminishing Hall's achievements.

You mean its harder wearing a mask and cushioned equipment?

Not Glenn Hall, but....

Terry Sawchuk - The face of a hockey goalie before masks became standard game equipment, 1966

 

[Doctor No]

And Martin Brodeur might "want to play a ton", but if his backup is rested and he's played so much that he's exhausted, then the backup's playing.

Part of the situation is that, because the Devils had Brodeur, they prioritized resources in places other than having a strong backup goaltender.

 

[Canadiens1958]

And Martin Brodeur might "want to play a ton", but if his backup is rested and he's played so much that he's exhausted, then the backup's playing.

Part of the situation is that, because the Devils had Brodeur, they prioritized resources in places other than having a strong backup goaltender.

In junior, St. Hyacinthe, coached by Norman Flynn, Brodeur played less.

Martin Brodeur (b.1972) hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com

Hard to create rhythm and momemtum. Devils under Lemaire, realized this and adjusted accordingly as a team and organization.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Not necessarily. I mean, technically you or I could play every game of an NHL schedule in goal.

tbf i would probably die long before game 82

 

[Doctor No]

tbf i would probably die long before game 82

For every problem, there is a solution:

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

You mean its harder wearing a mask and cushioned equipment?

Not Glenn Hall, but....

Terry Sawchuk - The face of a hockey goalie before masks became standard game equipment, 1966

even the equipment notwithstanding, marty fly to games on private jets. glenn hall flew coach and people were allowed to smoke on airplanes.

kiprusoff prepared for games by lying on a table and having his personal physical therapist massage his muscles. glenn hall barfed into a bucket.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

For every problem, there is a solution:

crossed with

(would be an awesome grant fuhr-esque right hand glove save btw)

 

[Doctor No]

+1 would watch this movie.

 

[Gilles Meloche]

I think Kipper is the most underrated goalie in NHL history.

 

[Gilles Meloche]

Lol and I had that profile pic before this thread

 

[Doctor No]

I think Kipper is the most underrated goalie in NHL history.

I'd probably go with Gilles Meloche.

 

[Gilles Meloche]

I'd probably go with Gilles Meloche.

Great choice too

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yeah, chalk me up to the "overplayed, huh?" thing...and also the notion that goaltending was easier in the 1960's...that's confusing sentiment...

Also, when Doc said he had a solution and posted Milhouse, I immediately thought of crossing it with Weekend at Bernie's...so there's about three people in the world that would be at that premier, and they're all present here...you're judged by the company you keep, and needless to say, this is my last day on the board...

Brodeur GP -> playoff success
2007 (78 GP) -> ECSF loss
1996 (77 GP) -> Failed to qualify
2008 (77 GP) -> ECQF loss
2010 (77 GP) -> ECQF loss
2004 (75 GP) -> ECQF loss
...
[removed sub-40 game throwaway season, let's go full-time starter]
1997 (67 GP) -> ECSF loss
2012 (59 GP) -> SCF loss
2011 (56 GP) -> Failed to qualify
1994 (47 GP) -> Wales Conf. Final loss
1995 (40 GP) -> Stanley Cup Champ

He went to the SCF five times...those seasons he was: 6th, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd and 14th in GGP...

He led the league in GGP six times...in those six playoffs, he won a combined one round. He beat Johan Holmqvist in a playoff series.

Around the league, a lot of coaches like the number 63 for their workhorse goalie these days.

Stanley Cup winning goalies in GGP since the big sleep...
Holtby - 17th (54)
Murray - 27th (49)
Murray - 67th (13)
Crawford - 16th (57)
Quick - 21st (49)
Crawford - 21st (30)
Quick - 4th (69)
Thomas - 16th (57)
Niemi - 34th (39)
Fleury - 8th (62)
Osgood - 30th (43)
Giguere - 18th (56)
Ward - 47th (28)

Maybe 70 games isn't the answer these days...

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Yeah, chalk me up to the "overplayed, huh?" thing...and also the notion that goaltending was easier in the 1960's...that's confusing sentiment...

Also, when Doc said he had a solution and posted Milhouse, I immediately thought of crossing it with Weekend at Bernie's...so there's about three people in the world that would be at that premier, and they're all present here...you're judged by the company you keep, and needless to say, this is my last day on the board...

Brodeur GP -> playoff success
2007 (78 GP) -> ECSF loss
1996 (77 GP) -> Failed to qualify
2008 (77 GP) -> ECQF loss
2010 (77 GP) -> ECQF loss
2004 (75 GP) -> ECQF loss
...
[removed sub-40 game throwaway season, let's go full-time starter]
1997 (67 GP) -> ECSF loss
2012 (59 GP) -> SCF loss
2011 (56 GP) -> Failed to qualify
1994 (47 GP) -> Wales Conf. Final loss
1995 (40 GP) -> Stanley Cup Champ

He went to the SCF five times...those seasons he was: 6th, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd and 14th in GGP...

He led the league in GGP six times...in those six playoffs, he won a combined one round. He beat Johan Holmqvist in a playoff series.

Around the league, a lot of coaches like the number 63 for their workhorse goalie these days.

Stanley Cup winning goalies in GGP since the big sleep...
Holtby - 17th (54)
Murray - 27th (49)
Murray - 67th (13)
Crawford - 16th (57)
Quick - 21st (49)
Crawford - 21st (30)
Quick - 4th (69)
Thomas - 16th (57)
Niemi - 34th (39)
Fleury - 8th (62)
Osgood - 30th (43)
Giguere - 18th (56)
Ward - 47th (28)

Maybe 70 games isn't the answer these days...

Indeed.