Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by The Kitner Boy, Oct 14, 2004.
I wish they were doing something like this here. Usually during the summer they have various open-house events and they've had Q&A sessions with the GM before, but they didn't have anything like that this year.
That article brings up a lot of other good points about the economic impact this is having on local businesses and charitable groups that rely on hockey games for income. Interesting stuff.
Man, I would love to ask Karmanos some questions. What a hypocrite.
That with a payroll of only 37.8 million dollars.
Which is 31 million dollars or 55% of the revenues.
Sorry his number just dont make sense.
Its a good number.
The Sharks had their "second annual" town hall meeting in July. (Yes, the CBA expiration was mentioned.)
The Sharks have "Ice Insights" about four-six times during the season (about an hour pre-game). Guests (at various times) include the president, GM, head/assistant coach, TV commentators, retired players. It's been mentioned in the past that perhaps having a scout come might be interesting as well.
Haven't heard anything about a meeting in the upcoming months. But the Sharks are one (of at least two teams, the Leafs being the other I've heard) that are having a "regular season" AHL game at their NHL venue. (As the nearest minor league team is four hours away from the Shark Tank, this is a nice gesture.) Other teams have minor league hockey a lot closer.
no kidding - they should be negotiating a freaking deal ! -
How can Karmanos now settle for anything less than a $16mil hard cap? Or $31mil I guess if it comes with $15mil in welfare payments. Or is he saying that if had better players, he could make more money in that market? Or is he saying Toronto should be limited to spending as if they were Carolina?
I dont think you get it. He is fulling supporting the 31 million dollar cap and i quote, "will stop the losses". Yet he claims he lost 22 million dollars with a payroll under 38 million. Thats why his numbers dont make sense.
I wonder if that is includes the money (10 million for the Canes) from the so called war chest.
Not sure, but maybe they had differed payments to make, insurance costs on top of the salary, the fact that with a cap of 31 million he could have a salary mass of 20 million and be competitive, thinking that he would have a better team with a lower cap since he could sign markee players who would bring more people to the arena, etc. There are tons of reasons why a 31 million cap could help the Hurricanes stop the losses.
Oh okay, yeah he is a peice of crap, the team is in the wrong market, Carolina is just not right for hockey, contract them or move them to somewhere in Texas.
I think he means with the enhances revenue sharing, the teams red ink will stop, and they will get more competitve and more fans will watch them play, which I doubt will happen.
I wonder how many people went to there games if he lost 22 million. Damn the Flames don't sell out and we ice a roster of atleast 38 million, and we only loose 6-7 million.
Sorry i didn't think he needed a salary cap to do that. The problem isn't the Canes payroll the problem is in management.
I said maybe he is thinking that he can put a better product on the ice if there's an NHL salary cap (maybe attract a star player... I dunno...). That's something that can't really be disputed since everyone has their own theory about what would happen after a cap. I think Karmanos is free to have his own.
Who loses the star player? I thought the point was to make sure everybody kept their star players.
Everybody can't put a better product on the ice. Somebody has to lose. You can have a hard salary cap at any level, and several teams will still lose and several teams will still have problems selling expensive tickets to watch a loser.
The owners want a system where all the teams make money, even the ones who can't sell tickets. This can be done as long as you set the cap at a level the bottom feeders can afford. Of course, the teams who can sell tickets and do put a good product on the ice will make a bundle. Peg everyone to the Carolina or Florida or Anaheim revenues and how much money will the Leafs and Rangers and Flyers make?
I get it now, Since his GM cant put together a good team, he wants to be able to steal from teams who draft smart, make smart trades, and develop talent. Yeah thats fair.
I'm not Karmanos so I can't tell you what he really thinks or what he has in mind. My initial answer was to point out that there are a multiple ways why Karmanos would think the losses would stop with a cap at $31M. The rest is myself just giving answers about what Karmanos might think will let the team stop bleeding red. I'm not judging on whether it's achievable or not, since that's highly speculative.
However, a league with a cap of $31M would surely make UFA's more accessible to Carolina than the current setup.
Maybe he thinks that the reason his GM can't put together a good team is that they can't compete with the higher budget teams. The point being that maybe they won't be able to sign O'Neill, just for money reasons, and that will surely cost them a few fans. As well, they can't afford to sign any UFA unless Karmanos takes money right out of his pocket.
Who knows really how well the Canes GM could do with a hefty budget?
Then maybe he needs to find a new GM then. After all Karmanous did say he has lost on average between 12-16 million dollars a year for the last 10 years. How long has Rutherford been his GM??
We're not there to evaluate Rutherford's job. We do not have the numbers, the studies, to take those decisions ourselves. Under Rutherford, the Canes have went in the playoffs farther than many other teams, all this with a limited budget. It's not as simple as saying "just reduce the budget if you're losing money". Depending on the supply/demand curves and the inherent costs, in the current NHL market, the best the Canes can do is lose on average 12-16 millions/year. Maybe they envision that with a $31M cap, the market perspectives change and they can break even.
It is sure easy to simplify things and say this and that, but obviously as fans we're lacking the information to let out a good judgement from the outside.
P.S.: Maybe Rutherford is doing a poor job, I don't know, the whole point being that we can't find out. Montreal's GM Rejean Houle has been written off as the worse GM for Montreal, yet maybe he was doing a good job with what he had to work with (budget, aspirations, pressure from above, etc).
Interesting, Peter Karmonos is on a local radio show right now. When asked about revenue he claimed his Canes were 16th or 17th in the NHL in terms of revenue.
When asked about lowering ticket prices if the owners get their cap. He said they would "think" about and some teams can even afford to do so. So i guess they wont be lower ticket prices after all.
he also said it the players who were against revenue sharing not the owners.
i;m gonna email one of the host in hope that they put the interview on their website of atleast provide a transcript.
With a $31M cap. The Canes lose $15 Million. You can't have a salary cap without massive revenue sharing. It makes no sense.
This team made the Cup final two or three years ago, how are free agents going to helo them build attendance. If this ownership group is so inept, that it couldn't turn an EC Championship into a solid season ticket base, they should contract the team or move.
This coming from the team that offered Fedorov a 23 million dollar signing bonus?
the rangers held two town hall style meeting last week, though the focus was more on the rebuilding effort and the progression of prospects. The lockout was adressed though.
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