Any McDavid/Crosby level prospects out there? For 2018 or beyond?

[MBauer]

Do you say this from their full games or only points?

Well when he scores more points at 16 than Eichel did at 17 it probably means the kid has some serious skill .He has the potential to be the best American born prospect ever in my opinion and people are really selling him short.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Well when he scores more points at 16 than Eichel did at 17 it probably means the kid has some serious skill He has the potential to be the best American born prospect ever in my opinion and people are really selling him short.

He also plays on the most stacked team the USA has probably ever had in that age group.

I think he's very good, but not as valuable to a team as Eichel.

 

[Dominance]

Europe is not so much followed. Here are my 2 picks:

Danil Gushchin - CSKA Moscow U17 (2020 draft)
Next Ovechkin.


LD Aron Kiviharju - TPS, FIN JRS (2024 Draft)
Originally Posted by FinProspects
Laine, Granlund, Puljujärvi stood out at very, very young age. Everyone in Oulu-area knew Granlund at age of 11. Puljujärvi was 11 when they wrote the legendary article of him scoring 8 goals in the SM-Bandy final, which ended 8-7. At age of 13 Pulju moved to Oulu and started in C-juniors, and everyone here already knew him. Ville Nieminen said that Laine was noticed when he was under 10y old, because he was scoring goals all the time.
if you are special, age doesn’t really matter.

Didn’t Laine play goalie at that time? I remember reading that somewhere.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This strict definition of generational is incredibly silly. So if the next Gretzky and the next Lemieux were taken in back to back drafts the next Lemieux won't be generational? But If he's drafted 15 years later he will be? The way generational is used is as a signal of all time great playing quality and players shouldn't be penalized in that context for their date of birth.

 

[lilmaxo]

What about quinton byfield ?

 

[Hfbsux]

This strict definition of generational is incredibly silly. So if the next Gretzky and the next Lemieux were taken in back to back drafts the next Lemieux won't be generational? But If he's drafted 15 years later he will be? The way generational is used is as a signal all time great playing quality and players shouldn't be penalized in that context for their date of birth.

Couldn't agree more. I roll my eyes everytime there is an argument about player X being generational or not.

 

[Mikael123]

I don't follow prospects much, so I'm genuinely asking.

Crosby/McDavid are the 2 best prospects in the hockey world in the past 20 years (maybe throw Ovi in there too, though i think he was slightly less hyped).

Are any prospects legitimately looking to be in the same tier as those guys? Is Dahlin? Anyone else in 2018 or in 2019 and beyond?

I know we've had a lot of very strong prospects the past couple of years (Eichel, Matthews, Laine) but none of them were on the same tier as McDavid as a prospect. If given a chance 30 teams out of 30 pick McDavid first at the draft.

Curious to see what everyone thinks. I know it's a bit harder to project for players stilll 1-2 years out of draft year, but you typically get a sense early on for those things.

By "same tier" - it should mean that if McDavid and said prospect would be available in the same year, it's a 50/50 chance who a team would select between the 2.

 

[rho]

McDavid played more than half this season as a 15 year old. Lafreniere played six games. It's not the same.

Sure, but isn't the other comparison (McDavid's 2013-14) even worse? McDavid was born in January, Lafreniere in October. Using McDavid's 2013-14 as a comparison gives him a 10 month age advantage, versus just 2 months for Lafreniere this way.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Sure, but isn't the other comparison (McDavid's 2013-14) even worse? McDavid was born in January, Lafreniere in October. Using McDavid's 2013-14 as a comparison gives him a 10 month age advantage, versus just 2 months for Lafreniere this way.

Not when you compare them physically. Lafreniere was bigger and more filled out than McDavid in his second season, let alone his first season. Size is arguably more important than skill or intelligence in junior hockey, so the fact McDavid put up those numbers while being a boy physically is more impressive.

There’s no perfect comparison, but it’s artificially giving Lafreniere hype (that he couldn’t possibly live up to) to compare them. Lafreniere had an extra season of playing hockey, regardless of them being within ~80 days of each other at the same time.

 

[StiffSquid]

2042 draft pick Matthew Patrik McCrosby. Write the name down. He's going to be something else. Uber-generational.

He's the love child of Sidney and Dion.

 

[Dominance]

2042 draft pick Matthew Patrik McCrosby. Write the name down. He's going to be something else. Uber-generational.

He's the love child of Sidney and Dion.

Good one.

2022 really isn’t that far away. Smart money is that the #1 overall pick, for example, is already pretty well recognized as a top player of his birth year.

 

[Fogelhund]

A generational player is one that typically happens, once every generation.... not once every two years.

 

[ijuka]

LD Aron Kiviharju - TPS, FIN JRS (2024 Draft)

On this - Awarded the TPS E-junior of the year for the second year in a row:
https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=b1a30df03a053ad4964777537508689f&oe=5BBE56C4
At WSI u-12 and WSI u-13 this year, C of both teams, made both tournaments' all star teams, scoring history at WSI:
u-12 at u-10: 4+6=10 in 7 gp
u-12 at u-11: 2+10=12 in 7 gp
u-12 at u-12: 5+6=11 in 7 gp
u-13 at u-12: 2+7=9 in 9 gp
Holds the top 3 all-time point scoring records for a defenseman at WSI u-12s.

Plays 2 years above his age group in Finland - Playing in C2 AAA-juniors next season. Very few Finnish players have played 2 years above their age group at this age(and this level) - Jesse Puljujärvi is the closest one that comes to mind. Defensemen - none in forever.

On play style:
PP quarter back, puck-possession defenseman. Actually responsible defensively, often lowest D and seems to play it very safe - quite good awareness defensively. However, the actual defending itself requires quite a bit of work. Very good in the defensive zone with the puck. Confident with the puck in general and capable of making plays.

On attributes:
Where to begin? Skating is amazing and he can make a difference with it even against players 2 years older. Acceleration is especially fantastic. Hands are otherworldly. Shot is great. IQ very high. Vision excellent. Passing very good - accurate, hard. Captain material - leadership.


The next season will be extremely interesting to follow because 12-year-old players just don't play in C2 AAA upper level in Finland(where his team is), especially defensemen. And he doesn't just hang around but actually is a proper 1D for the team and carries A or C.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

When a thread turns into a discussion about the word generational

 

[teravaineSAROS]

if you are special, age doesn’t really matter.

Thats why Sean Day was selected #1 in the draft and Jamie Benn never had an NHL career?

 

[alko]

Thats why Sean Day was selected #1 in the draft and Jamie Benn never had an NHL career?

No, thats way Crosby was selected as Nr 1.. Thats way Lemieux was selected as Nr. 1. Thats way McDavid was Nr. 1.

You should understand, we speak here about something special. Doubt, that Benn was mentioned in his 14 years.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

No, thats way Crosby was selected as Nr 1.. Thats way Lemieux was selected as Nr. 1. Thats way McDavid was Nr. 1.

You should understand, we speak here about something special. Doubt, that Benn was mentioned in his 14 years.

Lol, Sean Day was supposed to be generational, as was Alexander Daigle.

"Doubt, that Benn was mentioned in his 14 years."
that's my point, the player you are at 14 doesn't have to have anything to do with how good you are as an adult.

 

[vippe]

Not that I'm aware of..

I'd love to see what Dahlin would have done in the OHL. He'd be on a different level in that league.


I dont think he's on a Crosby/McDavid level but a notch below, but he's definately a notch higher than any prospect outside of those since.

 

[mammothCacti]

What about quinton byfield ?

Honestly we probably gotta see how he is in the OHL. Gotta keep in mind he's 6'4 at age 15 while at a level that no kid can or really knows how to deal with that size.

 

[kelsier]

I have to say that Kiviharju's numbers are nothing short of outstanding and that you can pretty much check every box what comes down to skills or attibutes when compared to peers. I've only seen some footage of his games and he's looked dominating on the ice. Personally the sample size is still too small for me to jump in the hype train this early and with defenceman it's always a bit tricky. All I can say is that he has talent for sure and that I can't but keep fingers crossed for him to keep on this trajectory. But yeah, with the big talents in the past, they've been in the local radars/circles since the very early years and oftentimes for a reason as history has shown us.

 

[ZEBROA]

This strict definition of generational is incredibly silly. So if the next Gretzky and the next Lemieux were taken in back to back drafts the next Lemieux won't be generational? But If he's drafted 15 years later he will be? The way generational is used is as a signal of all time great playing quality and players shouldn't be penalized in that context for their date of birth.

And its even more silly when comparing D with forwards (but not goalies strangely enough). You can defenitly be generational in your position.

Sorry for the spelling im extra swede today...

 

[ijuka]

I have to say that Kiviharju's numbers are nothing short of outstanding and that you can pretty much check every box what comes down to skills or attibutes when compared to peers. I've only seen some footage of his games and he's looked dominating on the ice. Personally the sample size is still too small for me to jump in the hype train this early and with defenceman it's always a bit tricky. All I can say is that he has talent for sure and that I can't but keep fingers crossed for him to keep on this trajectory. But yeah, with the big talents in the past, they've been in the local radars/circles since the very early years and oftentimes for a reason as history has shown us.

To me, what's perhaps the most interesting thing is how large a repertoire he has in general. I've watched plenty of games in this age category(D1) and he's just about the only one I've seen who regularly even uses "dish" or lob passes as a standard option. And there are tons of little tricks and fakes that also is something that I very very rarely see anyone doing.

This is one example(he's #11):


Just how good is that?

Other attributes(skating, hands, vision), example:


It's true that C2 AAA is a level we have a lot more data on and therefore the next season will be significantly more telling.

 

[JBose7]

This strict definition of generational is incredibly silly. So if the next Gretzky and the next Lemieux were taken in back to back drafts the next Lemieux won't be generational? But If he's drafted 15 years later he will be? The way generational is used is as a signal of all time great playing quality and players shouldn't be penalized in that context for their date of birth.

I agree. I always hear people say Malkin and Crosby are generational talents so based on that logic Crosby is but Malkin is not? I also think Dahlin is generational but we usually don't think of defenseman that way. Also is Eichel really in this conversation with Matthews? But I think the next dominate player will be in ten years

 

[dellzor]

Jack Hughes (beating Matthews, Eichel, and Keller's numbers at their respective ages), Lafreniere (almost scored as much as Zadina despite being in his D-2) and Matthew Savoie (I think, not really sure)

 

[ZEBROA]

We in Sweden go for "lagom" good players. This generational crap we leave to the other countries. Its harder to win that way so thats good... If its to easy to win (like the sedin WHC gold) it doesent count or something like that...

Just had to get that passive aggressive jealousness out... thanks