Any Doubt who the GOAT is?

[Quid Pro Clowe]

His team winning a defensive battle is hardly proof he's the goat. That was done in the past.

Rams had a great plan on defense and he's lucky his team did, too.

 

[Terry Yake]

BB will always deserve more credit for the pats success than brady

 

[Voight]

This is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard Brady does more with less...yet we just saw them win the SB with the other team scoring 3 points and their offense hardly did anything and Brady didn't even come close to winning MVP in that game...hes had a dominant offensive line every year of his career and their running game was dominant the whole playoff run as well."OUTSIDE OF RANDY MOSS" is absolutely hilarious considering Moss is probably the 2nd best receiver in the history of the game yet you claim he hardly had anybody which makes this basically a joke. He's had better receivers than any other QB but the 49ers duo...and Welker was also just as good when he played with Manning when Manning broke the TD record in Denver.

Yea... he had Randy Moss for what, 3 seasons? That was literally the only time in his 18 year career that he had one of the best receivers in the NFL. He has played with cast off after cast off and managed to not only win 6 championships, but compile the most wins ever and could retire with the most yards/TDs of all time. As for the running game -- hes also never had a featured RB on his team.... pretty sure Michel was the first RB Belichik ever used a 1st round pick on. He's always gone for later picks like Lewis & White or signed guys like Blount.

Lol better receivers than any other QB.... are you for real? Manning, Brees and Warner all had much better weapons and thats just 3 QBs from his era.

Welker was a scrap heap pick up. The Fins didnt want him, Belichik traded for him and Brady made him into a very good receiver, one who parlayed his time with Brady into a nice free agent deal with the Broncos. Obviously he was just as good with Manning... Peyton is also an elite/all time great.

 

[berklon]

People keep pointing to Brady having Moss, but guess what... they only made the SB once with Randy Moss... and they lost that game.

Brady/Patriots didn't have a stud WR in the 6 seasons they won the SB.

 

[YEM]

Brady is so obviously the best that it's fairly absurd to argue otherwise
he does nothing but win, through a few different eras now & he owns virtually every team in the league outside of the Giants

 

[tony d]

Nope, it is him. It was him after the Super Bowl win in 2017. Anything he does now only adds to his greatness. To think he was an injury replacement in 2001. If that injury doesn't happen who knows what happens?

 

[Panthaz89]

Yea... he had Randy Moss for what, 3 seasons? That was literally the only time in his 18 year career that he had one of the best receivers in the NFL. He has played with cast off after cast off and managed to not only win 6 championships, but compile the most wins ever and could retire with the most yards/TDs of all time. As for the running game -- hes also never had a featured RB on his team.... pretty sure Michel was the first RB Belichik ever used a 1st round pick on. He's always gone for later picks like Lewis & White or signed guys like Blount.

Lol better receivers than any other QB.... are you for real? Manning, Brees and Warner all had much better weapons and thats just 3 QBs from his era.

Welker was a scrap heap pick up. The Fins didnt want him, Belichik traded for him and Brady made him into a very good receiver, one who parlayed his time with Brady into a nice free agent deal with the Broncos. Obviously he was just as good with Manning... Peyton is also an elite/all time great.

Brees had "much better weapons" like who? Colston? Saints had one of the top offenses in the league but they didn't exactly have a great WR for most of Brees career. I definitely hate the Saints but Brees has had way less than Brady especially when it came to the defense considering they had the worst defense in so many seasons of his career where they would go 8-8 despite having one of if not the best offense in the league.

 

[Panthaz89]

People keep pointing to Brady having Moss, but guess what... they only made the SB once with Randy Moss... and they lost that game.

Brady/Patriots didn't have a stud WR in the 6 seasons they won the SB.

Cool its more important to have a great D, dominant offensive line than it is to have a stud WR............at least towards winning that is. Brady wasn't putting up any gaudy numbers til he got good receivers so its not exactly rocket science but its much easier to win in the NFL with a dominant O-line and defenses that receivers.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Brees had "much better weapons" like who? Colston? Saints had one of the top offenses in the league but they didn't exactly have a great WR for most of Brees career. I definitely hate the Saints but Brees has had way less than Brady especially when it came to the defense considering they had the worst defense in so many seasons of his career where they would go 8-8 despite having one of if not the best offense in the league.

Brees IS the weapon.....and he would've likely done far more damage than the meager amount we saw from Goff last night.

 

[CHfan1]

Steve Young replaced him and the 49ers didnt miss a beat.

Replace Brady and lets see how many Lombardi's the Pats win (0).

Do you really think that if Peyton Manning was on the Pats, with Belichick at the helm still, that they wouldn’t have won any Super Bowls?

 

[Blitzkrug]

Brees had "much better weapons" like who? Colston? Saints had one of the top offenses in the league but they didn't exactly have a great WR for most of Brees career. I definitely hate the Saints but Brees has had way less than Brady especially when it came to the defense considering they had the worst defense in so many seasons of his career where they would go 8-8 despite having one of if not the best offense in the league.

Brees did have Jimmy Graham for two seasons, who was otherworldly. But outside of that, Michael Thomas is the only other big money target he's had. Brees made a lot of average to below average WRs look a hell of a lot better than they were.

 

[Voight]

Do you really think that if Peyton Manning was on the Pats, with Belichick at the helm still, that they wouldn’t have won any Super Bowls?

9x one-and-done Manning probably would have won at least one with Belichik at the helm but would he have been able to produce with the modest group of players he'd have compared to what he had on the Colts?

Theres a good chance Manning would have won at least once if he replaces Brady but then again Manning wasn't really that great or impressive in any of his 3 Super Bowls.

 

[Newsworthy]

GRONK IS NOT THE GREATEST TE ALL TIME. NOT BY A LONG SHOT.

 

[Newsworthy]

Brees did have Jimmy Graham for two seasons, who was otherworldly. But outside of that, Michael Thomas is the only other big money target he's had. Brees made a lot of average to below average WRs look a hell of a lot better than they were.

They both played with Cooks. Last year Pays made AN with Cooks and this year Cooks on Rams.
Colston was a great receiver also.
Also NO has had some really good runningnacks.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

BB will always deserve more credit for the pats success than brady

Yesterday's game and this season in general is the definitive case against that theory.

Brady was mediocre at best yesterday, and mainly played the role of a caretaker QB this season. Would anyone have ranked the Pats D as more than a middle of the pack unit from a talent perspective? This title - along with their first against the Rams - are mostly Belichick's.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

Nope, it is him. It was him after the Super Bowl win in 2017. Anything he does now only adds to his greatness. To think he was an injury replacement in 2001. If that injury doesn't happen who knows what happens?

The Mo Lewis hit on Drew Bledsoe is etched in sports folklore, but Brady wouldn't have stayed on the bench for very long. Bledsoe's contract was up at the end of that season, and there were already rumblings early that season that Bledsoe's starting job was in jeopardy.

 

[CHfan1]

9x one-and-done Manning probably would have won at least one with Belichik at the helm but would he have been able to produce with the modest group of players he'd have compared to what he had on the Colts?

Theres a good chance Manning would have won at least once if he replaces Brady but then again Manning wasn't really that great or impressive in any of his 3 Super Bowls.

So you think Belichik’s success is only because of Brady and he never would have won anything without him?

 

[Roboturner913]

They both played with Cooks. Last year Pays made AN with Cooks and this year Cooks on Rams.
Colston was a great receiver also.
Also NO has had some really good runningnacks.

The Saints offense until recently was about having a large quantity of pretty good but not great players who filled a niche. Even when some guys put up superstar level numbers they weren't elite players. They were elite within the niche they filled but not overall. Like Graham may have been a great pass-catching TE but he was never a great overall TE. Colston was a great jump ball and possession WR but was never a great overall WR. Pierre Thomas was great at screens and blitz pickup but not a great overall RB. Etc. etc. Arguably Thomas and Kamara are the first guys Brees has played with since he came to the Saints that have a legitimate claim to being top 5 players at their positions - maybe Graham, but I was always a little more down on Graham than a lot of people even when he was putting up monster numbers.

Kinda the same with Brady, he had Gronk and Moss but overall he's been making names for guys like Edelman, Amendola, Branch, Troy Brown, Welker, etc. who are great when they're in a great situation but don't have a talent level to be as productive in another situation.

 

[Bocephus86]

The only argument that I need anymore to defend Brady as the GOAT is to point to the "counter arguments" that are being posted in this thread. They are so desperate, so myopic, so contradictory, that anyone who reads them will say: "Well, if that's what they got against it, he has to be the GOAT. "

I appreciate all the help guys.

And he was solidified after ATL. This years run just adds icing to the cake (I'd point to the KC game over this one, but he, again, did enough to deliver the win while, again, taking the Pats on a game winning 4th quarter drive).

 

[GordonGecko]

Yesterday's game and this season in general is the definitive case against that theory.

Brady was mediocre at best yesterday, and mainly played the role of a caretaker QB this season. Would anyone have ranked the Pats D as more than a middle of the pack unit from a talent perspective? This title - along with their first against the Rams - are mostly Belichick's.

Brady was hardly a 'caretaker' vs KC. He is declining, no doubt, but remember the guy is 41 lol - yet one more ring.

 

[Blitzkrug]

If 4300+ yards and 29 is considered declining for a 41 year old, we're gonna waiting a good while before the ***er finally retires.

 

[c9777666]

BB will always deserve more credit for the pats success than brady

If the Pats had Kirk Cousins or Derek Carr, BB still could have guided the Pats to a title this year

 

[Crossfire Hurricane]

If the Pats had Kirk Cousins or Derek Carr, BB still could have guided the Pats to a title this year

Because either of those guys would have gotten past KC.

There have been a lot of seriously dumb takes on this board since yesterday.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

Brady was hardly a 'caretaker' vs KC. He is declining, no doubt, but remember the guy is 41 lol - yet one more ring.

Not using that as any kind of slight. I've watched the Pats since Brady's first start, and this season was much closer to the Brady of 2001-04 than what we've seen recently. 'Caretaker' may be too strong, I'm not saying he was Chad Pennington or Alex Smith. But far less was placed on his shoulders than in the past.

 

[Fantomas]

Wow, an entire 4-page thread about how Brady is GOAT without a single (apparent) mention of either Jim Brown or Jerry Rice. A buncha real historians here.