The Macho King
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Glendening would never help anyone do anything. He's an awful player. Kapanen is a very very good player. I can't really understand what level of delusion it takes to think Glendening would ever help anyone win more than Kapanen.
newfy
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Glendening is a really good fourth line center. A lot of Leaf fans talked like this last year when they got BOyle and saw how much he actually solidified the bottom 6, timely faceoff etc. Glendening is that similar calibre, under contract for a while and younger. Check the league face off leaders, Glendening is top 3 or 4 in the entire league
BinCookin
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BinCookin
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Glendening isn't close to Boyle, who has an extremely long history of very good possession results. I wanted Boyle real mad, and was thrilled we got him without giving up a first, and was mad we didn't bring him back.
Number1RedWingsFan52
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Yup he's suppose to be back Tuesday in time for the Wings Preds game at LCA.
Number1RedWingsFan52
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Well your Coach Mike delusional Babcock seems to feel differently then you i guess.
The Macho King
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yes and i want to fire mike babcock and call up sheldon keefe or literally anyone who doesn't think ron hainsey and roman polak are good at hockey.
newfy
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Glendening is close to Boyle, theyre very similar players. Especially when Babcock used Glendening which will probably be the biggest factor in this potential trade. Youre getting a really good fourth line center who is third in the league on faceoffs, PKs and provides a bit of grit. Also solid offensively (by fourth line center standards).
He fits in age wise with Torontos core, is signed to a reasonable deal so that Toronto wont have to keep trying to solve that issue. Youll feel the same way about Glendening once/if he ends up in Toronto when hes winning key draws late in games in the playoffs and pissing off other team's star players
Boyle's teams do better when he's on the ice, and Glendening's teams do worse. $1.8MM is not even close to reasonable. He's not an NHL player. I don't want Glendenning. I don't care about faceoffs, or grit. He sucks at hockey.
newfy
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And guess who isnt going to agree with that assessment? Mike Babcock. The fact that you say hes not an NHL player shows that advanced stats still have a long way to come. He was always deployed in very difficult minutes with Babcock, lining up against other teams stars. He isnt a big scorer or possession guy but he always has a better high danger corsi for percentage than he does your regular corsi. He plays hard minutes and will often frustrate other teams stars by letting them mess around the outsideand try to get good chances, instead they arent getting as many high danger opportunities.
I dont think hes Crosby but hes definitely an NHL player, and a useful one at that to the right team. Babcock used to match him up with Crosby and I'm sure he'll make sure Lou and Shanahan know that. And if Babcock does trust Glendening to just be a pain and not let a top guy on another team get a lot of high quality chances, that frees up Kadri or Matthews to score more come playoff time not going head to head. They get a third or second line match up instead
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Oddbob
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A team full of Kapanen's would probably be less successful come playoff time against a team of Glendening's, then vice versa. As already stated Glendening isn't going to TO for Kapanen, no one thinks this, but in the NHL, bottom 6 guys need to bring what a team needs to the table, and not necessarily be the most skilled players ever. Even the best teams, need guys who can agitate and shutdown the top opposition's offensive guys, and Kapanen (more of a scorer) isn't going to excel at that, which is why he has to fight for a top 6 spot, versus a bottom 6 spot in the NHL.
Well, for one, Kapanen is pretty solid defensively and kills penalties, and for two, the Red Wings get like 46% of the shot attempts and 36% of the goals when Glendening is on the ice, so I don't know what kind of "shutting down" he's actually doing. Also, like, you can't win a game 0 to -1. You have to score. I'd rather a tam of offensive guys trying to win 7-6 than a team of defensive guys who can't score. The point is to score more than the opposition, if you're scoring more, how many you allow isn't really important. There's obviously value in good defensive guys, because you need guys who take the puck from people, and that's why I love Zach Hyman. Glendening isn't very good at that, and Kapanen improves his team's share of the goals, while Glendening makes his team's share worse. It's also frankly a lot easier to find a guy who nobody realizes is good defensively than it is to find scoring talent. If you're so willing to admit Glendening is not bringing back Kapanen, why the desperate need to compare the two? Also, I'm just saying: no, it would not blow my mind if Kapanen for Glendening happened. Weird shit happens, and this isn't Kyle Dubas's team yet.
When Luke Glendening is on the ice, the Red Wings get 48% of the high-danger Corsis, and 46% of the scoring chances. The HD Corsis are a valid point that I admittedly hadn't looked into, but we also largely look at shot attempts rather than goals because the sample of them builds faster and because an individual has a greater influence on their team's results in terms of shot attempt-share than things like scoring chances and high-danger attempts (I think largely because chances in close are more likely to be the result of a defensive miscue than the average shot attempt, which means your opponent plays a bigger in your chances against than attempts against - the offensive team has a much bigger influence on how many attempts are taken than the defensive team), and forwards in particular don't have a great ability to influence the danger level of shot attempts against. His previous season-by-season results in terms of HD Corsis are 44%, 46%, 49%, and 47% - and that includes three playoff teams. When there's a range of 5% over a 5 year sample, and it's not really obviously trending one way or another, that doesn't look like something an individual has a strong ability to influence.
As for the difficulty of his minutes: of the 16 Red Wings forwards to play at least 50 minutes of 5on5 this year, eight (Mantha, Helm, Larkin, Nielsen, Nyquist, Zetterberg, Abdelkader, and Tatar) have played opponents who get more time-on-ice than Glendening. I just don't get this idea that he's playing particularly tough matchups (though he historically has gotten pretty tough zone starts). My observation has been that generally, not many players actually are all that glued to the opposing team's top lines, and I generally think it's a mistake anyway, because I think that leaves a group that you rely on defensively pretty damn gassed by the end of the game. Also worth pointing out that his most common linemate is Frans Nielsen, who a) has a great history of driving play, b) does much better without him, and c) he does even more terribly without.
I'd love the center you're describing. I wanted Brian Boyle last year, I'm mad he's gone. If we could get a guy on the fourth line who's good at pushing the puck up the ice, regardless of result, that'd be great, in particular because with Boyle, while he himself is offensively fairly limited, his ability to get the puck into the opposition zone meant that Kasperi Kapanen had more opportunities with the puck in the offensive zone (Martin/Boyle/Kapanen looked real solid together, closest Martin has looked to an NHLer in Toronto). But Glendening ain't that guy. He's never been that guy, and I don't really care if Mike Babcock disagrees. All that said, I have terrible timing with this thread cuz I *am* willing to admit, he had a pretty good game last night.
We don't do top 6, bottom six, we have Bozak and jvr on our third line, worst defense on the team and plays easiest and most offensive minutes. We sprinkle in those types of players on every line. I dont mind the combo, grit tenacity just with better offensive awareness then hymen and this version of komo. Hopfully grunstrom, or ķorskov will be that for us. Also I don't think many teams do that line structure anymore. It's just not a league where you need 6 guys like glendening in your lineups. So I definitely disagree with your statement of a team of glendenning will do better in the playoffs. Like they say "talent always rises to the top". In a 7 game series my money be on team kap.
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You have no clue what you are talking about. Glendenning is a good 4th line center, one of the better ones in the league.
Brian Boyle is a good depth player as well but he is being paid 2.55 million. You do not pay a 4th line center 2.55 million.
The fact you think Glen isn't an NHL showd your level of hockey knowledge.
Yes but one is 6 ft 7 250 the other is 5 ft 11 197. Boyle is a giant version of glendening so no their not the close. There no denying size matters and if two guys are similar but one is 6 ft 7 guess who babs/gms value more, thats why their not close. Also you don't need to be adding a 4th liner just to fit with your core that's just bad management. They come and go and preferably developed with late picks
Why even humor Leafs fans with this argument? I don't get it. We all know that every single prospect they have is untouchable and whatever you're offering is trash. When you have a core that is built to win now, you leverage futures for assets that help now. If Babcock thinks Glendening helps them win now he will get Glendening, any Leafs fan delusional enough to think that they aren't giving up a "blue chip prospect" or whatever it takes to get Babs what he wants is in for a rough deadline. You can continue to hoard your futures and toil in mediocrity or you can get the guy who has two more Stanley Cups than the entire Leafs organization in the expansion era what he wants. I'm not saying Glenny is worth Kapanen, I don't know anything about Kapanen. Futures don't win Stanley Cups.
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Glendening getting injured actually is what saved Tampa a few years back when Detroit blew the 7 game series the first time around.
Glendening is a really good hockey player. He is a monster on the PK and in the faceoff dot. He plays playoff hockey very well too as he constantly goes to the net and battles in corners. I wouldn't move him for less than a second rounder. I know Kapanen being floated is bad for Leafs fans, but Luke Glendening is a good hockey player that can be trusted in a ton of situations. I have never seen Babcock love a player like he did Glendening, I think he would make that deal in a second. I don't expect it to happen, but Babs would be elated if they acquired Glendening. Leo and Hyman would have to figure out what to do with Golden Boy status lost the second that trade went through.
Eventually the Leafs are going to have to move some of their prospects for real help on their team if they want to win. Tampa and Boston are better and they will be better if the Leafs don't materially change their roster makeup. Yes, some of the young pieces you like are going to be on the move eventually.
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