Another Lockout

[joe dirte]

Yeah that's an understatement.

The US is where we let treatable people just die because they can't afford treatment.

Yes, the USA has issues with the way it treats its citizens. You are cattle to them.

Thats still better than most of the rest of tge world though.

And again, youre (for the most part) free to leave if you dont like it. Many parts of europe have 5 or 6 weeks vacation standard, public healthcare, and many other nice perks. Take a gander. You might like it better.

 

[txpd]

Earned the percentage ofbrevenue the league makes?

I dont think that makes sense.

The players have earned a percentage of the 100% gross revenue. Yes

 

[joe dirte]

The players have earned a percentage of the 100% gross revenue. Yes

As in their pay? Well yes of course they earn their pay.

 

[txpd]

As in their pay? Well yes of course they earn their pay.

Yes. Their pay is a percentage of the league revenue. The owners get a percentage of league revenue. Each side having earned their portion.

 

[Nino33]

The Bundesliga doesn't have owners.

You can have legues without owners, where every club is the boss. The owners did nothing except buy something from the league. They have done very little compared to the rest.

The 3rd highest payroll of 18 teams in Bundesliga paid their players just 34% of what the top team did; two thirds of the Bundesliga teams paid 20% or less compared to the top team Average Bundesliga salary by team 2018/19 | Statista

So the "Bundesliga way" results in massively less money for the vast majority of players (in the NHL this would mean 20 teams would have a payroll of 16 million or less!)

In terms of salaries it sure seems obvious that the "NHL way" is massively better for players compared to the ownerless Bundesliga way




P.S. Am I misunderstanding, or has the same team in Bundesliga really won 7 years in a row and 13 of the last 17 years? Almost doesn't seem like a real league in terms of actual competition

In terms of salaries the EPL isn't really that different to Bundesliga, with 14 of 20 teams paying less than 50% of the top team (and 8 of the teams paying less than 30%) English Premier League salary 2018/19 | Statista

 

[Torontonian]

I don't think the Owners are going to be looking for a fight and go into the lockout, hockey is a good spot right now with the two expansions teams coming in. I think the big fighting point from the players will be having the ability to go to the Olympics

 

[Nino33]

I don't think the Owners are going to be looking for a fight and go into the lockout, hockey is a good spot right now with the two expansions teams coming in. I think the big fighting point from the players will be having the ability to go to the Olympics

I don't think the vast majority of players care about the Olympics; if it was actually "a big point" to them they wouldn't have missed the 2018 Olympics

 

[Machinehead]

Yes, the USA has issues with the way it treats its citizens. You are cattle to them.

Thats still better than most of the rest of tge world though.

And again, youre (for the most part) free to leave if you dont like it. Many parts of europe have 5 or 6 weeks vacation standard, public healthcare, and many other nice perks. Take a gander. You might like it better.

I'm not free to leave. I literally can't afford to move

 

[Torontonian]

I don't think the vast majority of players care about the Olympics; if it was actually "a big point" to them they wouldn't have missed the 2018 Olympics

I guess you are right, thinking about it only a handful of players actually get to go to the Olympics, mind you pretty much all the stars of the NHL. I know players that would have been chosen for their Olympic team were not happy about missing the 2018 Olympics.

 

[joe dirte]

I'm not free to leave. I literally can't afford to move

If immigrants from africa can afford to get out, you can afford a bus ticket out.

 

[Machinehead]

If immigrants from africa can afford to get out, you can afford a bus ticket out.

I like where I live and I like my job. The system isn't working when you have to give up everything for basic rights.

 

[Eisen]

The 3rd highest payroll of 18 teams in Bundesliga paid their players just 34% of what the top team did; two thirds of the Bundesliga teams paid 20% or less compared to the top team Average Bundesliga salary by team 2018/19 | Statista

So the "Bundesliga way" results in massively less money for the vast majority of players (in the NHL this would mean 20 teams would have a payroll of 16 million or less!)

In terms of salaries it sure seems obvious that the "NHL way" is massively better for players compared to the ownerless Bundesliga way




P.S. Am I misunderstanding, or has the same team in Bundesliga really won 7 years in a row and 13 of the last 17 years? Almost doesn't seem like a real league in terms of actual competition

In terms of salaries the EPL isn't really that different to Bundesliga, with 14 of 20 teams paying less than 50% of the top team (and 8 of the teams paying less than 30%) English Premier League salary 2018/19 | Statista

Yes. Munich rules this league. As for the rest, it's true, but that was not the question asked.
In addition, the Bundesliga way doesn't result in that. No player would sign in Germany if they'd be paid under marketvalue. No top player wants to play on bottom feeders. Income is also extremely uneven and this league doesn't have revenue sharing. Playing in international competition gives the clubs a lot of money as well, yet only the top clubs can play there. No of this is influenced by having no owners. The EPL has owners and it is not different there, as you said.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Yes. Their pay is a percentage of the league revenue. The owners get a percentage of league revenue. Each side having earned their portion.

The players get 50% of Hockey Related Revenue, not league revenue. The owners get 50% of Hockey Related Revenue plus all other revenue.

 

[Nino33]

Yes. Munich rules this league. As for the rest, it's true, but that was not the question asked.

I agree. I took the the question asked as being in relation to the NHL/labour issues and not just does such a league exist

In addition, the Bundesliga way doesn't result in that. No player would sign in Germany if they'd be paid under marketvalue. No top player wants to play on bottom feeders. Income is also extremely uneven and this league doesn't have revenue sharing. Playing in international competition gives the clubs a lot of money as well, yet only the top clubs can play there. No of this is influenced by having no owners. The EPL has owners and it is not different there, as you said.

Yeah, IMO soccer/football simply isn't comparable because there's no single league with 99% of the world's best players with the worst of these teams still being paid 400-500 percent more than they could make anywhere else

And "the Bundesliga way does result in that" IMO as the vast majority of players in the league are making massively less than the few - the equivalent would be about 20 of the NHL teams having a salary total of less than 20 million!



In terms of salaries, if the NHL was like the top soccer/football leagues, a few teams would be NHL teams and the rest would be AHL/ECHL level (and the European/Russian Elite leagues would pay market value for top players and each league would have some teams that pay out as much for their team's players as the top NHL teams do, and players wouldn't sign if they're paid under market value).

The NHL has no competition, it's like all of the best players the EPL and Bundesliga and La Liga and more all in one league - that's the NHL. I suspect if that was the case with soccer/football, the vast majority (all?) of ownerless elite league teams would quickly have to get owners, raise ticket prices, etc (or cease to exist as an elite league team)

Seems that the best elite soccer/football leagues are filled with teams that don't really belong in an elite league (the majority pay massively less, and as you noted top players aren't signing on bottom feeders and expect to be paid top dollar, and the same teams win almost all the time...so this means the majority of teams don't actually have elite talent, don't really have a chance of winning - hockey's simply nothing like this)

 

[joe dirte]

I like where I live and I like my job. The system isn't working when you have to give up everything for basic rights.

What basic rights are you not getting???

But yeah, the USA is a mess. I wont argue that.

 

[Machinehead]

What basic rights are you not getting???

But yeah, the USA is a mess. I wont argue that.

You answered your own question.

 

[Channelcat]

I don't know, man. I am just tired of fans being treated like this. A 3rd lockout in less than a 20 year span? **** that. No league has done that.

NHL fans aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

 

[Hattrickkane88]

I have defended the NHL to everyone who says “the lockouts killed my interest” I think these are things said by casual fans of hockey who never had true passion for the game, it’s an easy out when someone brings up hockey and a guy wants to sound cool but doesent know much about the game.

Interesting thoughts, especially to me because I always thought the guys who act like it’s the end of the world and going to ruin hockey were the long term 20+ year fans because they remember when this wasn’t a every year issue and care alot about all time career stats for guys like ovechkin and his goals record chase about while it’s the newer fans who defend the nhl and think it’s normal just because it’s happened a few times recently.

Not saying your wrong or anything though.

 

[Eisen]

I agree. I took the the question asked as being in relation to the NHL/labour issues and not just does such a league exist




Yeah, IMO soccer/football simply isn't comparable because there's no single league with 99% of the world's best players with the worst of these teams still being paid 400-500 percent more than they could make anywhere else

And "the Bundesliga way does result in that" IMO as the vast majority of players in the league are making massively less than the few - the equivalent would be about 20 of the NHL teams having a salary total of less than 20 million!



In terms of salaries, if the NHL was like the top soccer/football leagues, a few teams would be NHL teams and the rest would be AHL/ECHL level (and the European/Russian Elite leagues would pay market value for top players and each league would have some teams that pay out as much for their team's players as the top NHL teams do, and players wouldn't sign if they're paid under market value).

The NHL has no competition, it's like all of the best players the EPL and Bundesliga and La Liga and more all in one league - that's the NHL. I suspect if that was the case with soccer/football, the vast majority (all?) of ownerless elite league teams would quickly have to get owners, raise ticket prices, etc (or cease to exist as an elite league team)

Seems that the best elite soccer/football leagues are filled with teams that don't really belong in an elite league (the majority pay massively less, and as you noted top players aren't signing on bottom feeders and expect to be paid top dollar, and the same teams win almost all the time...so this means the majority of teams don't actually have elite talent, don't really have a chance of winning - hockey's simply nothing like this)

Well, there were some plans leaked this year (or was it last year already) that the top clubs would form their own league in which Munich was going to be a part of. I heard nothing of ownership, though. And I really don't know if it would be an advantage. All he would do is take away from the profits of the club. And it's not like they are cash strapped. Here is a small graphic showing the financial situation of them. They can play with the big guys.

 

[Nino33]

Well, there were some plans leaked this year (or was it last year already) that the top clubs would form their own league in which Munich was going to be a part of. I heard nothing of ownership, though. And I really don't know if it would be an advantage. All he would do is take away from the profits of the club. And it's not like they are cash strapped. Here is a small graphic showing the financial situation of them. They can play with the big guys.

This isn't a soccer/football thread; I'm referring to things in relation to the NHL (so a whole league of teams)

And as I said earlier, IMO soccer/football simply isn't comparable to the NHL because there's no single league with 99% of the world's best players with the worst of these teams still being paid 400-500 percent more than they could make anywhere else

I'm not sure Bayern Munich would have the same financial success when they played in a league with actual competition (where they don't win the league 50% of the time over 55 years, and where all the league's teams are financially competitive instead of almost all being ridiculously noncompetitive financially). And a team that would lose way more often probably wouldn't see the same sponsorship/TV dollars either

 

[Warden of the North]

As wired as this sounds I actually hope there is another lockout, because if it means Bettman finally gets fired I'm all for it.

His lockouts earned the owners a massive amount of cash. Why on earth would they fire him?

 

[Saltcreek]

His lockouts earned the owners a massive amount of cash. Why on earth would they fire him?

I am also of the opinion that without Bettman we may not even have the NHL right now (or it would be in a much weaker state). The players were bleeding the league dry until the lockouts however, I cannot see a good reason for another one to happen.

 

[Bougieman]

As wired as this sounds I actually hope there is another lockout, because if it means Bettman finally gets fired I'm all for it.

That honestly is kinda weird. I don't care about Bettman so much that I'd opt for the league to miss an entire year of hockey just to not have to see him again. That's a large amount to care about that one guy.

 

[Thedogo]

That honestly is kinda weird. I don't care about Bettman so much that I'd opt for the league to miss an entire year of hockey just to not have to see him again. That's a large amount to care about that one guy.

I didn't say miss a full year. I meant like how 2012/13 was.

 

[Leafs87]

There’s going to be one for sure. Contracts are out of hand. RFAs getting too much. Vets getting shafted. Owners not making profits. No Olympics as of now and players still want more.

They really need to do something about the cap in all honesty. It’s increasing very slowly and a lot of teams can’t even reach the floor while others have multiple stars with no cap. So many loopholes also. I don’t see who is helping really at this point.