Another Lockout

[ZeroPucksGiven]

You're god damn right, comrade.

It's kinda funny that in the US/Canada you are free to choose your career. If you don't like the terms/wages/conditions you are free to ply your trade wherever you wish. We don't employ slaves here

God bless our freedoms we even have these choices. Better than living in a 3rd world country where education is unheard of and you're farming or doing some major laboring job

 

[Machinehead]

It's kinda funny that in the US/Canada you are free to choose your career. If you don't like the terms/wages/conditions you are free to ply your trade wherever you wish. We don't employ slaves here

God bless our freedoms we even have these choices. Better than living in a 3rd world country where education is unheard of and you're farming or doing some major laboring job

By definition, the US has a caste system.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

By definition, the US has a caste system.

I think you should look at the definition of a caste system before you make such hyperbolic statements

 

[Machinehead]

I think you should look at the definition of a caste system before you make such hyperbolic statements

"A caste system is a class structure that is determined by birth. Loosely, it means that in some societies, if your parents are poor, you’re going to be poor, too."

95% of Americans die in the class they were born in.

Almost all of that other 5% is downward movement.

 

[Esq]

If we have a lockout, all fingers point to Fehr. Players have it good right now, but he'll try to ruin it .

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

"A caste system is a class structure that is determined by birth. Loosely, it means that in some societies, if your parents are poor, you’re going to be poor, too."

95% of Americans die in the class they were born in.

Almost all of that other 5% is downward movement.

Do you have a source for that 95/5% breakdown?

Because I'm part of that 5%

 

[Machinehead]

Do you have a source for that 95/5% breakdown?

Because I'm part of that 5%

You're moving downward?

Sorry to hear that.

 

[Red Piller]

By definition, the US has a caste system.

Nah

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

You're moving downward?

Sorry to hear that.

Are you going to provide the source?
And the phrase "almost all" is something you missed (even though you typed it). But if you're curious, my parents were born extremely poor and I'm not ashamed to admit it

Also to your definition: you cannot change your caste.
Yet you pull out a statistic that indicates that yes indeed some can...anything not 0% proves your hypothesis incorrect.

 

[Machinehead]

Are you going to provide the source?
And the phrase "almost all" is something you missed (even though you typed it). But if you're curious, my parents were born extremely poor and I'm not ashamed to admit it

Also to your definition: you cannot change your caste.
Yet you pull out a statistic that indicates that yes indeed some can...anything not 0% proves your hypothesis incorrect.

Your parents were extremely poor, and what about you? C'mon give us a ballpark here.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Your parents were extremely poor, and what about you? C'mon give us a ballpark here.

Has this now delved into personal attacks or are you prepared to present evidence to support your hypothesis?
Because I've blown holes in it. I'm curious how you defend your hyperbolic statements to the rest of the class.

 

[Machinehead]

Has this now delved into personal attacks or are you prepared to present evidence to support your hypothesis?
Because I've blown holes in it. I'm curious how you defend your hyperbolic statements to the rest of the class.

I'm trying to make a point. I just want an idea of how wealthy we're talking here.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I'm trying to make a point. I just want an idea of how wealthy we're talking here.

And it's germane to the issue how?
I've explained that anything not 0% doesn't fit the definition of a caste and you've presented evidence YOURSELF that sinks the argument. 5% move castes.

So which is it: does the US have a caste system or not?

 

[Machinehead]

And it's germane to the issue how?
I've explained that anything not 0% doesn't fit the definition of a caste and you've presented evidence YOURSELF that sinks the argument. 5% move castes.

So which is it: does the US have a caste system or not?

You're warping the definition of caste and refusing to answer a simple question.

 

[Iapyi]

I am certain there will be another stoppage of some sort.

The billionaires and millionaires do not care about us fans. They are also prepared to put themselves ahead of the game itself.

I boycotted spending any money on game attendance and NHL merchandise when the last lockout occurred. Contrary to what I was told by others, who didn't know me, I have stuck to the boycott.

I still follow the NHL but they don't get any money from me.

As long as there are those who will shell out the money they will keep on taking it but there will be a point when things will hit a wall.

This whole concern about "growing the game" that so many seem so worried about has done nothing but water down the game, make it criminally expensive and does nothing but create headaches for many of us.

 

[BrokenFace]

If we have a lockout, all fingers point to Fehr. Players have it good right now, but he'll try to ruin it .

The players have it worse off than before the last lookout. Don't the owners have it pretty good too?

Nothing is so wrong in today's NHL that there needs to be a lockout, but that was true in 2012 too, yet the owners went ahead with one. I can understand a lockout to get a salary cap. That's a massive boon for the owners and the health of the league. But the owners proved in 2012 they'll resort to a lockout when the league is thriving.

 

[Machinehead]

I owe somebody sources.

You got academic journal access? Peer-reviewed, big bois only.

Economic Aspects of Caste in India and the United States on JSTOR

(This dude was literally born in India, came here, and said "this is the same thing.")

Caste in India and the United States on JSTOR

Race, Caste and Gender on JSTOR

(This one is educated in India)

Structural Change and Class Mobility in Capitalist Societies on JSTOR

Six western nations studied display "considerable rigidity of class boundaries." The study also cites just 9% of the US as actually being capitalists (i.e. owning capital) and only 1% as owning land capital.

Stratification and Meritocracy in the United States: Class and Occupational Recruitment Patterns on JSTOR

The study finds that "men are not generally sorted into class positions on the basis of meritocratic criteria." The biggest correlating factor by far? Father's occupation.

There's a lot more, but that's enough reading. the gist of it is, what we conflate with class mobility is actually occupational prestige. We wield computers while our father's wielded hammers. But we're not actually moving anywhere. Relative to inflation, we're earning less than the previous generation.

I'll cover more in my lecture about class dynamics, but I'm not offering it this semester. Hit me up in January. I will literally give you an A for listening to it. I'm sure you can afford the credits, you're wealthy.

 

[JPeeper]

You're wrong. There a tons of multi-sport athletes who have to choose between their options. Hockey is less popular, and I don't see having the lowest salaries improving that.

Your viewpoint is very naive if you think these guys are all in it for the love of the game and that they don't take their career options seriously.

Do you really think there are no athletes that were exceptional hockey and baseball/football players at the teenage level and couldn't have made any of the 3 leagues? Baseball and football are the two most common for obvious reasons.

Your viewpoint is laughable.

How many athletes has there been in history that could have made the MLB AND NFL? Since 1970, only seven athletes have done so, including Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders. In the history of the leagues less than 70 athletes have made both. Kyler Murray is a recent example and he chose football.

Name one guy who was an exceptional hockey player that could have made the NHL that could have made a MLB or NFL team. I'll wait.

 

[Esq]

Your viewpoint is laughable.

How many athletes has there been in history that could have made the MLB AND NFL? Since 1970, only seven athletes have done so, including Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders. In the history of the leagues less than 70 athletes have made both. Kyler Murray is a recent example and he chose football.

Name one guy who was an exceptional hockey player that could have made the NHL that could have made a MLB or NFL team. I'll wait.

Tom Glavine?

 

[Merrrlin]

Your viewpoint is laughable.

How many athletes has there been in history that could have made the MLB AND NFL? Since 1970, only seven athletes have done so, including Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders. In the history of the leagues less than 70 athletes have made both. Kyler Murray is a recent example and he chose football.

Name one guy who was an exceptional hockey player that could have made the NHL that could have made a MLB or NFL team. I'll wait.

Do you really think elite athletes at age 16 only have the chance to make one sport?

Do you not hear the all the reports of top recruits choosing between major sports before or during university?

I think it's a problem that our very best players get paid less than role players in other leagues, and that this affects the interest our sport holds in the minds of elite athletes.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I owe somebody sources.

You got academic journal access? Peer-reviewed, big bois only.

Economic Aspects of Caste in India and the United States on JSTOR

(This dude was literally born in India, came here, and said "this is the same thing.")

Caste in India and the United States on JSTOR

Race, Caste and Gender on JSTOR

(This one is educated in India)

Structural Change and Class Mobility in Capitalist Societies on JSTOR

Six western nations studied display "considerable rigidity of class boundaries." The study also cites just 9% of the US as actually being capitalists (i.e. owning capital) and only 1% as owning land capital.

Stratification and Meritocracy in the United States: Class and Occupational Recruitment Patterns on JSTOR

The study finds that "men are not generally sorted into class positions on the basis of meritocratic criteria." The biggest correlating factor by far? Father's occupation.

There's a lot more, but that's enough reading. the gist of it is, what we conflate with class mobility is actually occupational prestige. We wield computers while our father's wielded hammers. But we're not actually moving anywhere. Relative to inflation, we're earning less than the previous generation.

I'll cover more in my lecture about class dynamics, but I'm not offering it this semester. Hit me up in January. I will literally give you an A for listening to it. I'm sure you can afford the credits, you're wealthy.

So now you're backing off your original stance: "By definition, the US has a caste system"???

Interesting articles and those don't alter my generic viewpoint of: people who are born poor, tend to end up the same way. Poverty is typically generational, but again not everyone is locked in as your original take, the true definition of a caste.

I took exception to your hyperbolic claim about the caste system. Because by DEFINITION (your word, not mine) the US is not, neither is Canada. So if you would have left it in general terms like I elaborated above we could have avoided your silly questions about my status

 

[PuckInTheNards]

My guess is that there will be another lockout but that the players will get hosed here. The players' leverage comes from taking a unified approach and I bet that'll be much more difficult this time around - as the elite. top end salaries have gotten larger and taken a higher percentage of the cap, the mid and lower tier salaries have largely stagnated (I think). That'll have to create some hard feelings in the NHLPA meetings.

Time will tell.

 

[Niten Ichi Ryu]

The Olympics is paramount imo. It's not fair to the young players of this generation. While all their idols participated on the grandest stage in sports, and experiencing the glory of the most coveted medals in the athletic universe, today's young players don't get that opportunity and are forced to treat this garbage 'world cup of hockey' as the Olympics.

Like when people compare Crosby to McDavid. People who support Crosby always say 'He won 2 Olympics gold medals, how many has McDavid won?' They will continue to say that for the next 15 years, and it's just not fair at all to the future talents of the hockey world (NHL, KHL, SEL etc.)

I hope the NHLPA has a firm stance regarding the Olympics, and if it costs a portion of the season to come to an agreement on the matter, it's worth the delay

 

[Machinehead]

So now you're backing off your original stance: "By definition, the US has a caste system"???

Interesting articles and those don't alter my generic viewpoint of: people who are born poor, tend to end up the same way. Poverty is typically generational, but again not everyone is locked in as your original take, the true definition of a caste.

I took exception to your hyperbolic claim about the caste system. Because by DEFINITION (your word, not mine) the US is not, neither is Canada. So if you would have left it in general terms like I elaborated above we could have avoided your silly questions about my status

You obviously don't understand how a caste system works.

You think an official caste system has 100% frozen social mobility? You don't think there are exceptions just like there are here?

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

You obviously don't understand how a caste system works.

You think an official caste system has 100% frozen social mobility? You don't think there are exceptions just like there are here?

Do you want to argue with Websters?

caste

noun
\ ˈkast also ˈkäst \
Definition of caste
1: one of the hereditary social classes in Hinduism that restrict the occupation of their members and their association with the members of other castes
2a: a division of society based on differences of wealth, inherited rank or privilege, profession, occupation, or race
b: the position conferred by caste standing : PRESTIGEart and religion have lost caste— F. L. Baumer
3: a system of rigid social stratification characterized by hereditary status, endogamy, and social barriers sanctioned by custom, law, or religion
4: a specialized form (such as the worker of an ant or bee) of a polymorphic social insect that carries out a particular function in the colonysoldier castes for fighting enemy ants