Another expansion/relocation article with a twist

[Riptide]

To play devils advocate what other potential market besides QC already has an established fanbase and foothold in their given market? Also another team in close proximity would ease travel issues for the entire EC. I can understand your concern but Hartford is a separate market from NY it wouldn't fight over anything except for perhaps Fairfield county, MSG doesn't even broadcast their games here.

If they were looking at an eastern based team... why choose Hartford over Toronto2/Southern Ontario or QC? Both would almost certainly do better than Hartford.

Compuware founder Peter Karmanos pledged to keep the Whalers in Hartford for four years when he purchased the team in 1994. However, two years later, frustrated with lackluster attendance and little corporate support, he announced that if the Whalers were unable to sell at least 11,000 season tickets for the 1996–97 season, he would likely move the team.

Not that there were not other issues... but again... I see multiple other places that are a lot more attractive than Hartford.

 

[NHL Hartford]

Love Connecticut. Loved the Whalers... but about the building? Appetite for a new one partially funded by the taxpayer? And what of indemnities to Boston, Carolina & Philly etc? And who Champions this?

That's the million $ question. I suspect there's something in place for the near future in terms of a new arena and I suspect Global Spectrum will be playing a part in it. I just don't see why else they would sign on to operate the XLC for the final 10 years of it's life span, seems nonsensical.

2 encouraging signs have been the XLC was approved for $40 Mil in renovations without any hoo-hah at all and this:

http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/art...onomists-ct-should-put-bond-stockpile-to-work

 

[NHL Hartford]

If they were looking at an eastern based team... why choose Hartford over Toronto2/Southern Ontario or QC? Both would almost certainly do better than Hartford.



Not that there were not other issues... but again... I see multiple other places that are a lot more attractive than Hartford.

Well the fans did reach 11,000 ST's so I fail to see how that comes into play. And TV to answer your original question. I don't see the NHL having more than 8 teams in Canada right or wrong.

 

[NHL Hartford]

I bet most posters here didn't know the Whalers outdrew the Bruins 3 years in a row from 85-88. And also 1980. Fans were never the problem, 90-93 were lean years but the team sucked (like always) but worse than that management traded the only players who had a connection with the fans and hired Pierre McGuire. Hartford also boasted some of the higher ticket prices in the league while they were around.

 

[NHL Hartford]

The problems that plagued them their 1st time around: lack of t.v., no salary cap, historically lousy team can all be overcome now. Truth was that Hartford wasn't allowed to work through their troubles like other markets.

 

[Riptide]

I bet most posters here didn't know the Whalers outdrew the Bruins 3 years in a row from 85-88. And also 1980. Fans were never the problem, 90-93 were lean years but the team sucked (like always) but worse than that management traded the only players who had a connection with the fans. Hartford also boasted some of the higher ticket prices in the league while they were around.

Really, they outdrew the Bruins 30 years ago?! Then by all means, give them a team tomorrow.

As I already said there's better options in the east than Hartford. Even if you only think that Canada will get 1 more team... that 1 team is still a better option than Hartford. Territorial rights aside, Toronto/Southern Ontario could easily support 2 more teams, and there's still Quebec City.

 

[NHL Hartford]

Really, they outdrew the Bruins 30 years ago?! Then by all means, give them a team tomorrow.

As I already said there's better options in the east than Hartford. Even if you only think that Canada will get 1 more team... that 1 team is still a better option than Hartford. Territorial rights aside, Toronto/Southern Ontario could easily support 2 more teams, and there's still Quebec City.

You're right Qc is a better option and so is a TO2 team likely better than 95% of the league what's your point? If they put teams where they'd get the absolute steadiest fan support it be a league made up of the O6 and 24 Canadian franchises, but that's not the case. And I'm just using that as a reference, I guess it's ok to use figures against us from years ago but nothing highlighting our market? Seems about right.

 

[Killion]

That's the million $ question. I suspect there's something in place for the near future in terms of a new arena and I suspect Global Spectrum will be playing a part in it. I just don't see why else they would sign on to operate the XLC for the final 10 years of it's life span, seems nonsensical.

2 encouraging signs have been the XLC was approved for $40 Mil in renovations without any hoo-hah at all and this:

http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/art...onomists-ct-should-put-bond-stockpile-to-work

Yes, interesting bobo. I have friends in Connecticut, its a beautiful state and theres a lot of wealth there. Despite the downturn in the economy & loss of a lot of insurance sector jobs to wit Hartford is well known nationally theyve done well. Recovered, insurance and over the past decade ht & surprisingly some film (film fx, editing, music studious etc) firms establishing themselves in the area.... but.... Global-Spectrum? Ed Sniders now what, like 132 years of age? Wants to win one last cup in Philly, GS a mere shill, catering to no-hopers in Hamilton Ontario with Copps Coliseum & ya, your building in Hartford. They'll tell you what wanna here, not what you should really know. $40M or $80M in upgrades required if "were ever going to return NHL hockey to this fine old building". Thats not Snider, that some stiff from Global-Spec.

I bet most posters here didn't know the Whalers outdrew the Bruins 3 years in a row from 85-88...

Youd be quite wrong about that. We did pay attention. Your team, the personnel, rather demanded such & right from the get-go. Keon, Howe... hello?

The problems that plagued them their 1st time around: lack of t.v., no salary cap, historically lousy team can all be overcome now.

Hartford was betrayed. Lied to. Conned. Karmano's. Kept moving the goalposts. Beware Greeks Bearing Gifts. Ive never forgiven him & tell ya what? Knew Jimmy Rutherford when he played Junior hockey in Hamilton, with Detroit etc. And Im not happy, not happy with Jimmy, far less so with Karmanos. Dont trust either one of them. Proven liars. Next?

 

[NHL Hartford]

Yes, interesting bobo. I have friends in Connecticut, its a beautiful state and theres a lot of wealth there. Despite the downturn in the economy & loss of a lot of insurance sector jobs to wit Hartford is well known nationally theyve done well. Recovered, insurance and over the past decade ht & surprisingly some film (film fx, editing, music studious etc) firms establishing themselves in the area.... but.... Global-Spectrum? Ed Sniders now what, like 132 years of age? Wants to win one last cup in Philly, GS a mere shill, catering to no-hopers in Hamilton Ontario with Copps Coliseum & ya, your building in Hartford. They'll tell you what wanna here, not what you should really know. $40M or $80M in upgrades required if "were ever going to return NHL hockey to this fine old building". Thats not Snider, that some stiff from Global-Spec.

They haven't publicly said anything to that effect, at all. Pure conjecture on most peoples part the $40 Mil is to purely keep the XLC functional and add some amenities before it meets the wrecking ball, I think if one things clear the NHL will never go back to an old arena even if it's renovated; and to add the XLC doesn't have the necessary footprint needed anyways for a 21st century arena. What I meant by having GS is that they have really partnered with the city & state through the lengthy XLC and Rentschler Field contracts the hope is that they can help bring about a new arena that they could potentially manage with an NHL tenant.

Hartford was betrayed. Lied to. Conned. Karmano's. Kept moving the goalposts. Beware Greeks Bearing Gifts. Ive never forgiven him & tell ya what? Knew Jimmy Rutherford when he played Junior hockey in Hamilton, with Detroit etc. And Im not happy, not happy with Jimmy, far less so with Karmanos. Dont trust either one of them. Proven liars. Next?

You're right which makes it an even more noble cause for some billionaire to uptake

 

[Riptide]

You're right Qc is a better option and so is a TO2 team likely better than 95% of the league what's your point? And I'm just using that as a reference, I guess it's ok to use figures against us from years ago but nothing highlighting our market? Seems about right.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. You seem upset that Hartford gets no consideration for a team (we'll ignore the no rink).
Seattle/Portland get consideration due to them being attractive places in an area with no NHL team (PNW), and potentially balancing out the conferences.
Toronto/SO gets mention because it's the hockey meca that's vastly under served.
QC gets mention because of how diehard Canadian fans are, and that it's large enough to support a team.

So again... why would the NHL look at Hartford? Sure NYC/BOS/NJ are 120 miles or whatever it is away... but there's absolutely risk there with the amount of teams in the proximity. And it's a needless risk, when there's better options.

I just don't see what they bring to the table that another city doesn't, that warrants any real consideration.

 

[NHL Hartford]

I'm not sure what you're getting at. You seem upset that Hartford gets no consideration for a team (we'll ignore the no rink).
Seattle/Portland get consideration due to them being attractive places in an area with no NHL team (PNW), and potentially balancing out the conferences.
Toronto/SO gets mention because it's the hockey meca that's vastly under served.
QC gets mention because of how diehard Canadian fans are, and that it's large enough to support a team.

So again... why would the NHL look at Hartford? Sure NYC/BOS/NJ are 120 miles or whatever it is away... but there's absolutely risk there with the amount of teams in the proximity. And it's a needless risk, when there's better options.

I just don't see what they bring to the table that another city doesn't, that warrants any real consideration.

Top 30 t.v. market, top 5 most disposable income in NA, creates goodwill with fans returning to where they left, eases travel for the entire EC, renewed rivalries, resurrection of a top 10 brand (brand recognition is what leagues are built on after all). Let's say I'm right about never going over 8 Canadian teams what happens if say the Panthers ever need to be relocated? Who besides Hartford is left? Milwaukee? I've never mentioned Hartford as an expansion destination and I think maybe that's what you're mixing up. SEA & QC are the clear choices for expansion and Portland/TO2 are light years ahead of Hartford, but I'm looking down the road into who the clear front runners for relocation are if it needs to occur in the next decade. I'd be confident in saying Portland for the Coyotes and Hartford in case of an EC team failing are your best choices.

 

[Killion]

I just don't see what they bring to the table that another city doesn't, that warrants any real consideration.

Geographically in terms of footprint Hartfords really up against it so no, based on that criteria that cities up the creek, no paddle. Bunch of other "things" running against it as well... Bummer though. I love Hartford.

 

[gstommylee]

Top 30 t.v. market, top 5 most disposable income in NA, creates goodwill with fans returning to where they left, eases travel for the entire EC, renewed rivalries, resurrection of a top 10 brand (brand recognition is what leagues are built on after all). Let's say I'm right about never going over 8 Canadian teams what happens if say the Panthers ever need to be relocated? Who besides Hartford is left? Milwaukee? I've never mentioned Hartford as an expansion destination and I think maybe that's what you're mixing up. SEA & QC are the clear choices for expansion and Portland/TO2 are light years ahead of Hartford, but I'm looking down the road into who the clear front runners for relocation are if it needs to occur in the next decade. I'd be confident in saying Portland for the Coyotes and Hartford in case of an EC team failing are your best choices.

Not going to happen. Who ever doesn't get expansion Portland or QC will get the coyotes in my opinion. Portland and Seattle are top 25 tv markets seattle specifically #13 in the tv market

 

[Killion]

Not going to happen. Who ever doesn't get expansion Portland or QC will get the coyotes in my opinion.

Islanders possibly... maybe total disloyalty in The Triangle, Carolina moves.... maybe IceArizona pulls the building & franchise out of the ditch, and I hope they do.... maybe Aliens land & plant me in a Pet Bed with my name across the headboard & Im happy, finally... God knows tommy...

 

[gstommylee]

Islanders possibly... maybe total disloyalty in The Triangle, Carolina moves.... maybe IceArizona pulls the building & franchise out of the ditch, and I hope they do.... maybe Aliens land & plant me in a Pet Bed with my name across the headboard & Im happy, finally... God knows tommy...

Didn't islanders sign a 25 year lease? My opinion of the coyotes is based on what's going on now they are not staying in 5 years. Now rather that opinion remains the same is yet to remain seen

 

[Killion]

Didn't islanders sign a 25 year lease? My opinion of the coyotes is based on what's going on now they are not staying in 5 years. Now rather that opinion remains the same is yet to remain seen

Sure did. And Wangs got it Sweet. $20M a year in local TV revs. But will it be enough? That arenas a mess for hockey unless your in a Suite drinking Single Malts. And lots of them.

 

[Tackla]

Hartford is seriously an underrated market. The teams in NY and Boston only help it in my opinion. I'd put a team there way before Seattle, Portland or Houston.

 

[mitolo8]

I cannot agree with this enough!!!! Bring back the Whalers, I was devastated when they left Hartford. Given that Bettman did nothing to keep them in Hartford it makes me mad that Bettman moved heaven and earth to keep the Coyotes in Glendale.

 

[Killion]

I cannot agree with this enough!!!! Bring back the Whalers, I was devastated when they left Hartford. Given that Bettman did nothing to keep them in Hartford it makes me mad that Bettman moved heaven and earth to keep the Coyotes in Glendale.

Welcome to hf Atw... bit of a problem with your logic. Wasnt Bettman. Karmanos. Thats your Enemy. Bettmans merely a plug, a dispensable Lawyer.

 

[gstommylee]

Hartford is seriously an underrated market. The teams in NY and Boston only help it in my opinion. I'd put a team there way before Seattle, Portland or Houston.

Why? It will not help the NHL by making it more lopsided west vs eastern teams than it already is. NHL and portland never had teams so why should the next US NHL city be Hartford over portland and Seattle it doesn't make sense and no way NHL will more out of the next TV contract.

 

[SpecialK139]

as somebody living in Vancouver, I can honestly say you should never use the Province's writers as sources for any credible information. That paper is pretty much a tabloid, and all of the media trolls in our city seem to work for them when it comes to sports. If the article is written by Botch, Wiles, or Gallagher you can bet your lunch money they're pushing their own agenda or spewing lazy narratives to try and get readers

The Sun might be slightly better due to a few writers/bloggers I like (MacIntyre, Mooney/Wagner at passittobulis... that's pretty much it) but if you're looking for the inside scoop on anything it would probably be better to just pretend our media doesn't exist and listen to Mackenzie or other insiders.

Hope my post isn't out of line with the board rules, I just hate seeing people assume that some of our writers actually have any credibility or accountability for what they say...

 

[TheTakedown]

Anaheim's won a cup. Bettman has fought tooth-and-nail to keep teams that have won cups in the markets they won in. Look at NJ back in 1995 when Nashville was knocking, Edmonton during the days of the weak Canadian Dollar, Bettman doesn't move winners.

PHX has.... what, one division title?

real winners

 

[TheTakedown]

Hartford is seriously an underrated market. The teams in NY and Boston only help it in my opinion. I'd put a team there way before Seattle, Portland or Houston.

Just like the Rangers help the Devils and Islanders draw...

So again... why would the NHL look at Hartford? Sure NYC/BOS/NJ are 120 miles or whatever it is away... but there's absolutely risk there with the amount of teams in the proximity. And it's a needless risk, when there's better options.
I just don't see what they bring to the table that another city doesn't, that warrants any real consideration.

The positive is that those teams ARE within 120 miles of it... followed by what bobo said before (below)... Furthermore, what "other options" are there?

Top 30 t.v. market, top 5 most disposable income in NA, creates goodwill with fans returning to where they left, eases travel for the entire EC, renewed rivalries, resurrection of a top 10 brand (brand recognition is what leagues are built on after all). Let's say I'm right about never going over 8 Canadian teams what happens if say the Panthers ever need to be relocated? Who besides Hartford is left? Milwaukee? I've never mentioned Hartford as an expansion destination and I think maybe that's what you're mixing up. SEA & QC are the clear choices for expansion and Portland/TO2 are light years ahead of Hartford, but I'm looking down the road into who the clear front runners for relocation are if it needs to occur in the next decade. I'd be confident in saying Portland for the Coyotes and Hartford in case of an EC team failing are your best choices.

Seattle/Portland get consideration due to them being attractive places in an area with no NHL team (PNW), and potentially balancing out the conferences.

Really? attractive because there is NO fanbase, a brand new market, no current arena at this time, and only claims of potential owners...

 

[gstommylee]

Really? attractive because there is NO fanbase, a brand new market, no current arena at this time, and only claims of potential owners...

We have a hockey fanbase. Arena is being worked on as we speak and its going through the EIS process. NHL wants to be in the PNW and wants seattle. Its the last of the major top 15 markets that has not been touched. Hansen and Mcginn have talked to the NHL.

 

[Tackla]

If I'm a franchise owner, I would put it in Hartford before other US markets. They love hockey already, have money, low travel costs, no competition in the market, other teams' fans will come to my arena and buy tickets. The NHL may want to spread the game to the northwest, but as an owner I would do what's best for my bottom line.