Another Cup or Passing Gretzky

[Sam Spade]

First of all this is somewhat hypothetical because I don't think it is really possible for Ovechkin to catch Gretzky (894).

Now that the Caps have won it all would you be ok without another Cup in the Ovie era if the trade off was he would be the all time goal leader at the end of his career?

So a Washington Capital player would be the undisputed greatest goal scorer of all time.

Click to read more...

 

[Raikkonen]

Get lost

I will settle for both

 

[Midnight Judges]

Even the most obvious things are disputed. Earth being round is disputed. Consensus is probably a better descriptor.

Anyway, I think Ovechkin can become the consensus without challenging Gretzky in raw totals (which is a nonsensical comparison anyway seeing as how Gretzky played almost exclusively in the highest scoring seasons ever and Ovechkin is playing his whole career in a DPE).

IMO Ovechkin is already firmly in the discussion for greatest goal scorer based on peak seasons, seasons leading the league, his gargantuan lead over everyone else in that time frame (46%), and his GPG lead during that time frame.

Things that would put him over the top and into the consensus IMO:

2 more Rockets

-or-

the post season goal scoring record (20 goals)

-or-

Tops Gretzky in adjusted goals (but not Gordie Howe).

 

[Midnight Judges]

Anyway, I'll say another Cup because Ovechkin is on his way to becoming the GOAT goal scorer regardless, and all-time raw stat records are not meaningful given the massive 40%+ fluctuations in league scoring.

 

[Sam Spade]

I tend to agree MJ, but undisputed is undisputed. I think if he gets to maybe 840-850 he will be seen that way, otherwise I don't know. Lot of "numbers are numbers" people out there.

 

[Silky mitts]

Even the most obvious things are disputed. Earth being round is disputed. Consensus is probably a better descriptor.

Anyway, I think Ovechkin can become the consensus without challenging Gretzky in raw totals (which is a nonsensical comparison anyway seeing as how Gretzky played almost exclusively in the highest scoring seasons ever and Ovechkin is playing his whole career in a DPE).

IMO Ovechkin is already firmly in the discussion for greatest goal scorer based on peak seasons, seasons leading the league, his gargantuan lead over everyone else in that time frame (46%), and his GPG lead during that time frame.

Things that would put him over the top and into the consensus IMO:

2 more Rockets

-or-

the post season goal scoring record (20 goals)

-or-

Tops Gretzky in adjusted goals (but not Gordie Howe).

817 will probably pass Howe in adjusted goals, 670ish would pass Gretzky according to href
Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

My math has Gretzky 2nd to Howe and Ovy needing more like 804 to pass Howe and like 729 for Gretzky.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Passing Gretzky is actually do-able.

Here is a plausible projection IMO:

Goals needed to pass Gretzky - 288 (894-607 +1).

Age 33: 48 goals
Age 34: 46 goals
Age 35: 40 goals
Age 36: 38 goals
Age 37: 33 goals
Age 38: 32 goals
Age 39: 27 goals
Age 40: 24 goals

Granted, he would have to be quite productive at age 39. But this does it.

 

[kicksavedave]

This thread's existence ensures that neither happen, so for that reason:

 

[Khomutov]

Another Cup for sure

 

[Hivemind]

Yes.

 

[Foots]

Another Cup for sure.

 

[txpd]

My view is that if Oh can back up last season with another 50ish goals, that he can catch Gretzky.

At the same time if he scores like that I would think they would be legit for another cup

 

[sycamore]

Another Cup. I don't like the fact we're in the "one Cup club" with a bunch of expansion teams (Carolina, Tampa, Anaheim).
We're better than they are, and we need another Cup to prove it.

 

[artilector]

I'll take two more Cups in a row, and then Ovi can retire.

 

[Corby78]

I vote for him passing Gretzky in cups won.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I’m greedy, I want both, but voted Cup.


I believe Gretzky’s raw totals matter. Beat him straight up or you don’t.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

It sucks Ovie missed a season and a half from lockouts in his prime. If he had those 70-80 goals he would be a lot closer to the record

 

[Sam Spade]

It sucks Ovie missed a season and a half from lockouts in his prime. If he had those 70-80 goals he would be a lot closer to the record

Agreed. Also, if Mama Ovechkin could have simply went into labor TWO DAYS SOONER he would have played in 2003.

Lots of people on the mains continue to point out that Laine basically has an 80 goal head start on Ovie.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I tend to agree MJ, but undisputed is undisputed. I think if he gets to maybe 840-850 he will be seen that way, otherwise I don't know. Lot of "numbers are numbers" people out there.

I am one of them...insofar as 2 Cups are better than 1 Cup.

What’s with these Ovy vs Caps polls lately?

 

[Sam Spade]

I am one of them...insofar as 2 Cups are better than 1 Cup.

What’s with these Ovy vs Caps polls lately?

I have never made a poll in my life so if they are out there I haven't seen them.

I actually had a dream last night that I was at a ceremony for Ovechkin becoming the all time leading goal scorer. It was all so vivid I thought I would find out how others feel.

I also knew what the result would be.

 

[Calicaps]

It sucks Ovie missed a season and a half from lockouts in his prime. If he had those 70-80 goals he would be a lot closer to the record

This X10000. He was cheated.

 

[Hivemind]

This X10000. He was cheated.

The counterpoint to this is that Gretzky also missed a season due to playing in the WHA before the WHA/NHL merger.

edit; After further reading, this is more dubious that I thought. I knew the NHL didn't allow players under 20 before the merger, but apparently Gretzky signed as a 17 year old.

 

[HunterSThompson]

The counterpoint to this is that Gretzky also missed a season due to playing in the WHA before the WHA/NHL merger.

And the 94 lockout

 

[trick9]

I love Ovechkin propably more than any hockey player that's ever played but another Cup for sure.

 

[Calicaps]

The counterpoint to this is that Gretzky also missed a season due to playing in the WHA before the WHA/NHL merger.

edit; After further reading, this is more dubious that I thought. I knew the NHL didn't allow players under 20 before the merger, but apparently Gretzky signed as a 17 year old.

I don't know where you landed on this... which is dubious?