Another 1st round loss, but I'm happy with the players and coaching

Buds17

Registered User
Nov 29, 2015
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I thought this series represented the best chance to win/advance out of the four tries over the past four years. The lack of a first rounder further adds to the disappointment. There are still things to be upbeat about though (the age of key players and the fact that they are at least under contract). Keefe is obviously very young in terms of NHL coaching experience as well.
 

Gabriel426

Registered User
Jun 30, 2015
16,522
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The team is way beyond- good effort, it was close, could have gone either way....

The players didn’t show up when it matters. That’s something to do with their mentality.
Not going to use the 5 games series as an example but they are not as good as they think. Ray Ferraro once said he scored 40 goals in his career but he is not a 40 goals scorer and I think that’s best described the current Leafs, they can be dominate like Game 2, part of Game 3 and about 4 mins in Game 4 but they are not a dominate team.
This is the message these players need to understand, they are not as good as they think they are.
I don’t think they get the message bc if they do, they would still be playing.

One if not all of Marner, Willie and Andersen should be traded for players and cap space. The team need a cultural change and these players need to know that giving your best once a while is not enough.
 

Arthur Morgan

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Jul 6, 2016
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I'm not even mad at the Leafs, I'm just disappointed. I know changes are coming. Let's just hope it's positive changes because I lost almost all hope with them at this point. This loss was bad so much worse than losing to Boston.
I don't care if every player is moved other than Matthews at this point.
 

Lightsol

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
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Babcock's game plan is actual quite conventional. Balanced scoring lines, pairing of grinders with skill guys, heavy forecheck, playing with pace, a strong blueline as the general backbone of the team to puck possession bump back to, stretch pass as the mechanism for a quick transition. A lot of teams generally play that way, especially in the West.
Except that the Leafs under both Lou and Dubas have really lacked the grinders necessary to play this way, and Babcock was determined to fit a square peg into a round hole.

What I got out of this series is that the Leafs really, really could use a 21st century version of the old Zezel-Pearson-Osborne line that was HELL for opposing teams to play against most nights. They have lots of skill, but they really need that grinding line that wears down the opponent over time.
 

Suntouchable13

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Dec 20, 2003
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Toronto, ON
Quite frankly, we are lucky the shutdown happened and we got this 1 qualifier series. I don't think we would have made it had the shutdown never happened.
 

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
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Except that the Leafs under both Lou and Dubas have really lacked the grinders necessary to play this way, and Babcock was determined to fit a square peg into a round hole.

What I got out of this series is that the Leafs really, really could use a 21st century version of the old Zezel-Pearson-Osborne line that was HELL for opposing teams to play against most nights. They have lots of skill, but they really need that grinding line that wears down the opponent over time.
It’s blue collar skill you describe which is what we lack in detail.
 
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Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
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Except that the Leafs under both Lou and Dubas have really lacked the grinders necessary to play this way, and Babcock was determined to fit a square peg into a round hole.

What I got out of this series is that the Leafs really, really could use a 21st century version of the old Zezel-Pearson-Osborne line that was HELL for opposing teams to play against most nights. They have lots of skill, but they really need that grinding line that wears down the opponent over time.

Agreed. When you look at a young team like the Canucks getting through to the playoffs, they have a bunch of "overpaid" guys like JT Miller, Pearson, Roussel who can give them a grinding dimension that Toronto has ignored.

When I look at Johnsson, Kapanen, Kerfoot, I see 3x middle six to top nine guys who can skate well, handle the puck, and generally do what the Big 4 do at a lower level. Then when you look at their AHL tweeners, you have a glut of less skilled players who are also skating, puck handling, offensively oriented guys like Malgin and Petan. But in terms of versatile guys who can play higher up in the lineup, we only have Hyman and maybe Mikheyev. But where are the all the role players, lunchpail guys, diggers, bruisers, etc?

I've never been specifically about nationalities, but I think we could use a line consisting of those general purpose working class Ontario players like a Tanner Pearson to give us a bit more of that nastiness and edge but at a higher skill level than a Kyle Clifford.
 

Socreges

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Oct 10, 2013
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After a day to digest this minor setback father has laid out why this Leafs team is right on the cusp of great things!

1. Sheldon Keefe will have a full season to work with this team and he's a magic man. Pencil him in for the Jack Adams next season.

2. Dubas knows exactly what went wrong with this and he never makes the same mistake twice. He'll make some major moves this offseason and the team will be 50% better than this past season.

3. Auston Matthews will win the Art Ross, Rocket Richard and Selke Trophy this next season. Father has said it's his time.

4. Nick Robertson will be in the running for the calder. He's that good.

5. Overall growth from many players. Sandin, Liljegren will take major steps and other guys like Engvall, Dermott, Mikheyev, Marner, Nylander will continue to get even better

All in all I'm so stoked about 2021!!! :handclap::handclap::handclap::handclap::handclap:
 

A1LeafNation

Obsession beats talent everytime!!
Oct 17, 2010
27,284
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Defence needs to be fixed; Dubas has no more excuses. There is no top pairing Dman in the system.

Sign AP and sign/trade for assholes like Simmons and Manson.

Mikheyev Matthews Nylander
Robertson Tavares Hyman
Korshkov Kerfoot Kapanen
Clifford Engvall Simmons
Spezza

Rielly Pietrangelo
Muzzin Manson
Dermott Holl
Sandin Liljegren

Andersen
Campbell
 

Faltorvo

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Feb 18, 2008
21,067
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Sure, but we were highly likely to actually make the playoffs this year, sans-COVID, and this was a playoff series. We did face an easier opponent than we otherwise would have, likely would have ended up 3rd in the division and faced 2nd place Tampa, but it was still a playoff series against a good team. FWIW, it does count as a playoff series in the record books.

Watching this team under Keefe, both in the regular season and playoffs, I thought we were a clear step ahead of any of the Babs-coached Matthews/Marner/Nylander-era teams. Wish we could have gone deeper in the playoffs, but IMO this year was still a small step forward, not a regression.
highly likely???

where do you come up with this crap?
Panthers just 3 points behind us with a game in hand

we drop to the wildcard and we are in a mosh pit with Caro/NYI/NYR/Columb

typical leafs hubris to say "highly likely"
 
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Faltorvo

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Feb 18, 2008
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I'm the least positive about Dubas, he's made some good moves but also some significant mistakes. Now, the flat cap is really very hard to predict. Since it was introduced 15 years ago, it has gone up literally every single year, other than the year it was knocked back due to CBA negotiations (2012/13 lockout). A rising cap was a reasonable assumption, but now that we have a flat cap for the next few years due to COVID, I do think Dubas will likely need to deal one of Marner/Nylander (Matthews is our franchise player, and JT has an NMC). Which sucks, but if he gets the right return it could be OK.
i have to ask

what good moves?
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
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My hope is that Keefe, being Dubas's man, can communicate in a way where they co-operate with each other rather then like Babcock who sometimes seemed hell-bend on making decisions just to prove a point that Dubas's decisions were wrong.
like what? using hyman in the top 6?
Marincin as our 7th D?
 

Big Muddy

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Dec 15, 2019
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I agree we need to be careful with making moves & changes. Knee-jerk reactions or over-reacting could be dangerous.

Having said that, I can't see how anybody would be, or should be pleased with very much in this year's regular or playoff seasons.

Personally, I think our problems could start at the very top with Shanahan. But, to make the wholesale changes now will be very difficult now even they may be needed given the group of players we've already assembled and the way they like to play (fancy, skill game).
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
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It's definitely decision time on who to keep out of Dermott/Sandin/Liljegren. We can't keep running a bottom-5 RD and dressing Marincin in the playoffs expecting to win.
really EFFN REALLY????

bitchn about our 7th Dman,,man this is so leafs
 

Brown Dog

Registered User
Jun 23, 2007
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Was really disappointed with Kapanen in the CBJ series. He's a guy that I was expecting to be a big contributor with his wheels, PK ability, and tenacity. He was almost completely invisible.
 

DarylO

Registered User
Jun 16, 2011
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Lindsay, ON
I feel like we were let down by our secondary scoring. I was expecting our 3rd line to get on the board as the top lines would be heavily checked.

Our defense core was shallow so losing Muzzin hurt, but also the Barrie experiment didn't pan out which hurt us as well.

We do need to keep in mind that Keefe did not have a lot of games to work on systems with the team and they were originally on a non-playoff trajectory prior to him coming on board.

In general I felt that we did control much of the play in this series and were not hemmed in our end and cycled to death like previous series against Boston which I feel was a positive. This was definitely a different challenge / style then they have previously faces in the playoffs and I felt that the adaptation was pretty good overall, however the execution on our offense wasn't up to snuff.

Next year will be a bit of a challenging year depending on the growth of Lil and Sand. If they are not ready to step up and play full-time we are going to be even more shallow on the back end than we were this year unless another deal is made to bring in another veteran.
 
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robertmac43

Forever 43!
Mar 31, 2015
23,096
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I like the coach but he needs to do better. This team needs to be coached into playing a consistent team game. They aren't there yet.

Some of the roster is good. I wouldn't want wholesale changes, but changes do need to be made.

I put Dubas in the same category as the coach and players: worth keeping, but in need of improvement.
My guess is both Keefe and Dubas would be the first to say they need to improve themselves. They strike me as the hungry for success type which I think bodes well going forward.
 

Merrrlin

Grab the 9 iron, Barry!
Jul 2, 2019
6,768
6,925
@ponder I think this is a well thought out post, so I appreciate that.

I agree with Keefe, and I agree about giving Dubas another year. However, this player group has folded in every big game and playoff series since the core was formed, and they are running out of runway. These are entire years they are burning off with not even a glimmer of hope in terms of a multi-series playoff run.

Personally, I think we need to make a change to the core, and improve our depth pieces. This team makeup would be a lot more successful if they called games by the same standard of the reg season in the playoffs, but they never will. We need to adapt to that.
 
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