Angelo Esposito to play in the Q (TSN)
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Chootoi
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- Jan 7, 2005
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i was thinking about the whole "letter of intent" thing and came up with this other solution:
what if, come training camp time, all players who don't report to their respective teams become some type of restricted free agent. any team is welcome to talk to a 'holdout' player and/or sign him, however a hefty compensation must be paid to the team owning his rights. either cash or draft picks. if it is picks it should be something big like your next 2 or 3 first rounders (something similar to the NHL's 5 first round picks compensation).
so if a team wants a guy bad enough, they can have him... for a price
thoughts?
what if, come training camp time, all players who don't report to their respective teams become some type of restricted free agent. any team is welcome to talk to a 'holdout' player and/or sign him, however a hefty compensation must be paid to the team owning his rights. either cash or draft picks. if it is picks it should be something big like your next 2 or 3 first rounders (something similar to the NHL's 5 first round picks compensation).
so if a team wants a guy bad enough, they can have him... for a price
thoughts?
Habsfan 32
Registered User
I'm happy to see him in Quebec because I might go there next winter so I'll go check some of his games out.
Jag68Sid87
Sullivan gots to go!
This is obviously a very touchy subject, but I think we have to separate a few details here. IF the Esposito's pulled this kind of crap in the NHL (see Lindros, Eric, Bonnie and Clyde--I meant Carl), there would be no excuse. The NHL should be the highest league attainable, so if you opt-in you are saying that you want to play professional hockey in the NHL. But junior hockey, or college hockey is a different animal altogether. And these are KIDS after all, not professionals (not yet). We could make the claim that CHL hockey or NCAA hockey (or junior elite in Europe) are relatively even, so that gives teenagers options. There is NO ONE LEAGUE that is perfect for all prospective NHLers, and players are drafted from all kinds of leagues and countries. As one other poster (who has a son in a similar predicament) pointed out, the important thing to remember in all this is the well being of the kid. That should always be priority 1 in these situations, the kid's development as a hockey player.
How is any CHL entry draft any different from the CHL Import Draft? After all, do the very best players available in the Import Draft get drafted No. 1 overall? No, teams draft the best players that they deem available--that they have a shot at bringing over. It's not so much different with a guy like Esposito choosing to play in Quebec, and NOT being selected by an expansion franchise. Not every player can pick and choose, but I'm sure every parent would love that opportunity for his child. It's human nature.
If the Esposito clan becomes a Lindros II, then it will all come out in the end. After all, I don't think too many people would hold the Lindros clan in contempt for forcing a trade in the OHL alone. Lots of families have done that for whatever reasons. It's the whole Quebec Nordiques thing that separates the Lindros clan with others. The Spezza's wanted no part of Mississauga, but didn't blink an eye about being selected by the Ottawa Senators. If they had, they would have been no better than the Lindros clan.
As for the leagues themselves, well they just want the player in their league. And judging from what has transpired since the beginning of Crosbymania, how can you blame them? I think it's fair to say that having a star player in a junior league is better for the overall viability of the league than forcing a player to report to a certain team. Let's not forget that these leagues are fledgling and the individual franchises are not a slam dunk financially. Remember what the Q teams did to ensure that they WOULD play Rimouski when Crosby was IN the lineup last season? Rimouski's schedule had virtually no road games during the WJC. Q teams would prefer to see a packed house with Crosby, than have a better shot at beating Rimouski without Crosby. So, obviously, even the individual franchises in the junior ranks don't look at parity as being the end all and be all of the league.
I think the biggest thing here is to differentiate behavior by professionals and behavior by families of teens prior to turning pro. Perhaps the Esposito situation is shady, but it shouldn't mean that certain individuals shouldn't have the ability to choose their development path. There is no full-proof method of ensuring that a player reaches expectations, so they should be free to develop in the manner they choose.
That is, above all, the biggest factor in all of this IMHO.
How is any CHL entry draft any different from the CHL Import Draft? After all, do the very best players available in the Import Draft get drafted No. 1 overall? No, teams draft the best players that they deem available--that they have a shot at bringing over. It's not so much different with a guy like Esposito choosing to play in Quebec, and NOT being selected by an expansion franchise. Not every player can pick and choose, but I'm sure every parent would love that opportunity for his child. It's human nature.
If the Esposito clan becomes a Lindros II, then it will all come out in the end. After all, I don't think too many people would hold the Lindros clan in contempt for forcing a trade in the OHL alone. Lots of families have done that for whatever reasons. It's the whole Quebec Nordiques thing that separates the Lindros clan with others. The Spezza's wanted no part of Mississauga, but didn't blink an eye about being selected by the Ottawa Senators. If they had, they would have been no better than the Lindros clan.
As for the leagues themselves, well they just want the player in their league. And judging from what has transpired since the beginning of Crosbymania, how can you blame them? I think it's fair to say that having a star player in a junior league is better for the overall viability of the league than forcing a player to report to a certain team. Let's not forget that these leagues are fledgling and the individual franchises are not a slam dunk financially. Remember what the Q teams did to ensure that they WOULD play Rimouski when Crosby was IN the lineup last season? Rimouski's schedule had virtually no road games during the WJC. Q teams would prefer to see a packed house with Crosby, than have a better shot at beating Rimouski without Crosby. So, obviously, even the individual franchises in the junior ranks don't look at parity as being the end all and be all of the league.
I think the biggest thing here is to differentiate behavior by professionals and behavior by families of teens prior to turning pro. Perhaps the Esposito situation is shady, but it shouldn't mean that certain individuals shouldn't have the ability to choose their development path. There is no full-proof method of ensuring that a player reaches expectations, so they should be free to develop in the manner they choose.
That is, above all, the biggest factor in all of this IMHO.
Well said Jagr; it's almost as if Canadians hold our hockey playing kids to communist ideals - go to where you were conscripted/arranged to go. A kid should be able to choose where he wants to play hockey or get an education if he is skilled enough to do so. Obviously leagues need to have drafts, but it should not prevent a child and his family from deciding to go another route, or even refuse to go to a place he dislikes, for whatever reasons.
Someone mentioned recently that Mueller should just go to Everett to play instead of spending the season in the USHL, but if you were 16 years old - would you really rather go way out west far from family and friends to play in Everett, or stay close to home, and then join some buddies on what promises to be a powerhouse Minny team and receive a quality education? I'd pick the latter if I was him. Most talented prospects in Canada don't get that chance though. They are told through the drafts where they are going, and they obey like trusty lapdogs.
It's not that often that a Canadian kid slated to go high in a junior draft informs CHL teams that they will be attending college instead, so we shouldn't treat it like it's the end of the world when it happens. Usually it involves a talented player - why shouldn't he have some options? Let's say you're a 98 % average 18-year-old student, and you want to become a doctor. You are not forced to go to UBC because they drafted you fifth overrall in the 2005 Doctor draft, you can go wherever you want for your education.
The Coutures were pretty much promised that they would be picked first overall by Oshawa; then circumstances changed. The Coutures' circumstances changed - they were not fond of going to play in Kingston for several reasons, so they decided to use the threat of college. How real that threat was is up for much debate, I won't speculate.
Circumstances changed for the Espositos as well. I'm guessing that Angelo and his family wasn't thrilled with the prospect of ending up with an expansion team in Nfld, so they kept their options open. That's ultimately their choice whether we like it or not. Quebec went ahead and made the move to select him, and whether it was pre-arranged is another interesting debate I am not privileged to answer as I have no idea.
Better to make the move before the draft than to refuse to join a team later IMO, essentially ruining a team's high-end draft pick. What good would it have done St. John's/Saint John to pick Espo, only for him to bolt to the NCAA?
Someone mentioned recently that Mueller should just go to Everett to play instead of spending the season in the USHL, but if you were 16 years old - would you really rather go way out west far from family and friends to play in Everett, or stay close to home, and then join some buddies on what promises to be a powerhouse Minny team and receive a quality education? I'd pick the latter if I was him. Most talented prospects in Canada don't get that chance though. They are told through the drafts where they are going, and they obey like trusty lapdogs.
It's not that often that a Canadian kid slated to go high in a junior draft informs CHL teams that they will be attending college instead, so we shouldn't treat it like it's the end of the world when it happens. Usually it involves a talented player - why shouldn't he have some options? Let's say you're a 98 % average 18-year-old student, and you want to become a doctor. You are not forced to go to UBC because they drafted you fifth overrall in the 2005 Doctor draft, you can go wherever you want for your education.
The Coutures were pretty much promised that they would be picked first overall by Oshawa; then circumstances changed. The Coutures' circumstances changed - they were not fond of going to play in Kingston for several reasons, so they decided to use the threat of college. How real that threat was is up for much debate, I won't speculate.
Circumstances changed for the Espositos as well. I'm guessing that Angelo and his family wasn't thrilled with the prospect of ending up with an expansion team in Nfld, so they kept their options open. That's ultimately their choice whether we like it or not. Quebec went ahead and made the move to select him, and whether it was pre-arranged is another interesting debate I am not privileged to answer as I have no idea.
Better to make the move before the draft than to refuse to join a team later IMO, essentially ruining a team's high-end draft pick. What good would it have done St. John's/Saint John to pick Espo, only for him to bolt to the NCAA?
Jag68Sid87
Sullivan gots to go!
I agree. And I think some people believe that a pattern may form if these kids/parents/agents are allowed to do this during their formative years. But it very well could have an opposite effect. The kid may in fact develop better for when he does get selected in the NHL draft, and he'll become a franchise player for whatever team selects him.
As for Crosby, since somebody mentioned earlier that he just decided to go to Rimouski without making a stink about it, well I love Sid more than most but who in their right mind would turn down the Oceanic? They now have a track record of producing quality stars for the NHL. He got a ringing endorsement from Brad Richards about Rimouski. That must have weighed heavily in the balance, as well. Just like Esposito talked with Crosby about the 'Q' in general, according to the RDS report.
It's all good. I wish the kid well.
As for Crosby, since somebody mentioned earlier that he just decided to go to Rimouski without making a stink about it, well I love Sid more than most but who in their right mind would turn down the Oceanic? They now have a track record of producing quality stars for the NHL. He got a ringing endorsement from Brad Richards about Rimouski. That must have weighed heavily in the balance, as well. Just like Esposito talked with Crosby about the 'Q' in general, according to the RDS report.
It's all good. I wish the kid well.
Anthony Mauro
DraftBuzz Hockey
turnbuckle said:
That was me. Yes staying home rather than going away is a good point, as well as joining a championship bound MINNY. However, I don't think you can factor in and use the education card in his case, or for any top draft pick. I mean what is two years max? He'd have to continue his studies for another couple of years which is not unusual, but I'm not sure how high education is up there for him. Of course I no nothing about his family, values, however I'm going on the line of thought that he's not gonna stay all four years.
Speaking about those Canadians, it always amazes me and intrigues me when those 20 yr old canadian college boys get into a university such as Cornell, Dartmouth, Princeton. Why so late for those guys and are they really up to snuff academically?
Espo wanted to go to 3 teams, Rimouski, Quebec or Gatineau.
There are no rules stopping Roy from doing it. Couture did the same thing in the OHL.
There are no rules stopping Roy from doing it. Couture did the same thing in the OHL.
Chootoi said:
Not a bad idea.
My idea was that each player must sign a letter of intent to enter the draft. Players that dont wont get picked. If Player X signs a letter of intent and TEAM A drafts him and Player X doesnt report for 2 training camps then PLAYER X is barred from the CHL and TEAM A is given a compensation pick.
RyanM said:Yeah, Roy traded up thinking he was taking a gamble
Roy knew when he made the pick that Esposito would be a Rempart in the fall.
Exactly! He traded his 17 yo goalie of the future, a 1st in 2006 and a 3rd rd pick. It wasnt a gamble at all.
Russian Fan said:
95% of CHL teamsd dont make A LOT OF DOUGH.
There are the higher revenue teams that make some coin but I know the QMJHL a lot of the maritime teams (Halifax) give money to the poorer teams for travel.
timlap said:I have a hard time getting mad at 16 year olds for the decisions they make reagrding their athletic careers.
if the 16 year old is big and ugly enough to lie and scheme to get what he wants, then i have no problem being mad at him.
they have to do something to change the rules and stop this from happening. if they can't stop this, might as well scrap the draft altogether.
saint john got screwed big time. they reluctantly paid 3 million for their franchise, then they get robbed of the top player in the draft.
From a Dog Devils perspective there would have been little chance that Angelo Esposito would be drafted by the team as Saint John had the #1 pick.
Hockey does not benefit from players getting what they want without any checks and balances.
Offering to pay for an collage education is one thing, but giving a 16 year old kid $1,000,000 to join the Ramparts is a tad ridiculous.
If any proof of ‘buying’ Angelo comes out then the Ramparts, even with Roy, then that organisation will here an ear-full from the other 17 teams(especially the expansion teams)
Wanting to play in a certain city is one thing, but receiving money for doing so has SELLOUT written all over it.
You mean like Rimouski tanking their season so they could be desperate enough to become dead-last place and be a lock at the #1 pick?
As for lame ass stunts:
Crosby, no
Rimouski, yes
Didn’t Washington have a fire-sale for AO/ Pittsburgh tanked to get Super Mario?
Hockey does not benefit from players getting what they want without any checks and balances.
Offering to pay for an collage education is one thing, but giving a 16 year old kid $1,000,000 to join the Ramparts is a tad ridiculous.
If any proof of ‘buying’ Angelo comes out then the Ramparts, even with Roy, then that organisation will here an ear-full from the other 17 teams(especially the expansion teams)
Wanting to play in a certain city is one thing, but receiving money for doing so has SELLOUT written all over it.
stocktrader said:
You mean like Rimouski tanking their season so they could be desperate enough to become dead-last place and be a lock at the #1 pick?
As for lame ass stunts:
Crosby, no
Rimouski, yes
Didn’t Washington have a fire-sale for AO/ Pittsburgh tanked to get Super Mario?
alecfromtherock said:
He wasnt given money. Roy set up a trust fund that Angelo can use to pay for Education if his pro aspirations dont happen.
Roy has done this with all his americans. Ryan, Andricopolous, Lavallee, Hennesey...when he was recruiting them he said if you dont sign an NHL contract the Remparts will pa=y for your education.
Can you fault a 16 year old kid for wanting to ensure that he can get the best education he possibly can? The QMJHL offers education packages, they arent bad, but they arent as good as the one Roy has offered so that makes the Remparts more attractive.
Obviously this sucks for the 14 or so teams that cant afford to do this but the Remparts are 2nd in the league in attendence and Roy is loaded. If VD or Rouyn cant afford it, it isnt Roy's fault that they average 1200 fans a game.
It's not so much Espo wanting to choose where he plays that annoys me as much as it is the perceived lying to get it.
If he had come out before the draft and said, I only want to play in A, B, or C, but not Saint John, at least Saint John would still have the option to draft him and trade him to one of A, B, or C, or try to entice him to change his mind about Saint John. As it was, he said there was no way he was playing in the Q, no matter what Saint John offered (and according to SJ's GM, they 'could have offered the Taj Mahal and he wouldn't have reported').
My solution.
But first, a couple of items to precede my solution:
1 - For those that are unaware, in the Q draft, a team can only draft players going into their 16 year old season in the first 5 rounds. All other picks are players entering their 17 year old season (or older).
2 - I believe we've all agreed that it's only a handful of players each year that have the kind of power to pull an Esposito type move, say probably the top 10 picks. And in the Q, this would be most likely the top 16 year olds since anyone passed over the year before most likely isn't a top prospect.
The solution - Players entering their 16 year old season that declare that they are going the NCAA route are not eligible for the Q draft. However, all players become eligible for the Q draft going into their 17 year old season.
The reasoning - Since it's only the top prospects that really have any kind of pull, and also only the top prospects that are most likely to have a significant contribution during their 16 year old season, they will be less likely to lie about the NCAA because it would cost them their 16 year old season in Major Junior.
On the other hand, if the player is serious about their NCAA aspirations, then not being eligible for the Q draft at 16 wouldn't be a problem. It also gives the player a chance to rethink his options for a year.
Basically everone wins. Well, maybe the player doesn't win, but he at least ties. If he still wants to hand pick his team, he can still say he'll only report to a certain team(s). He just can't lie about the NCAA unless he wants to wait until he's 17 to play in the league.
The teams win because the players have to be upfront about their true intentions.
The league wins because at worst they'll lose the the player for his 16 year old season, and really, 16 year olds who make significant contributions are few and far between. And it won't have a big effect on the Q draft either, since as mentioned above, a team can only draft 16 year olds in the first 5 rounds (and even less of an effect in the coming years when Hockey Canada reduces the number of 16 year olds allowed to play junior).
If he had come out before the draft and said, I only want to play in A, B, or C, but not Saint John, at least Saint John would still have the option to draft him and trade him to one of A, B, or C, or try to entice him to change his mind about Saint John. As it was, he said there was no way he was playing in the Q, no matter what Saint John offered (and according to SJ's GM, they 'could have offered the Taj Mahal and he wouldn't have reported').
My solution.
But first, a couple of items to precede my solution:
1 - For those that are unaware, in the Q draft, a team can only draft players going into their 16 year old season in the first 5 rounds. All other picks are players entering their 17 year old season (or older).
2 - I believe we've all agreed that it's only a handful of players each year that have the kind of power to pull an Esposito type move, say probably the top 10 picks. And in the Q, this would be most likely the top 16 year olds since anyone passed over the year before most likely isn't a top prospect.
The solution - Players entering their 16 year old season that declare that they are going the NCAA route are not eligible for the Q draft. However, all players become eligible for the Q draft going into their 17 year old season.
The reasoning - Since it's only the top prospects that really have any kind of pull, and also only the top prospects that are most likely to have a significant contribution during their 16 year old season, they will be less likely to lie about the NCAA because it would cost them their 16 year old season in Major Junior.
On the other hand, if the player is serious about their NCAA aspirations, then not being eligible for the Q draft at 16 wouldn't be a problem. It also gives the player a chance to rethink his options for a year.
Basically everone wins. Well, maybe the player doesn't win, but he at least ties. If he still wants to hand pick his team, he can still say he'll only report to a certain team(s). He just can't lie about the NCAA unless he wants to wait until he's 17 to play in the league.
The teams win because the players have to be upfront about their true intentions.
The league wins because at worst they'll lose the the player for his 16 year old season, and really, 16 year olds who make significant contributions are few and far between. And it won't have a big effect on the Q draft either, since as mentioned above, a team can only draft 16 year olds in the first 5 rounds (and even less of an effect in the coming years when Hockey Canada reduces the number of 16 year olds allowed to play junior).
Good work Mike...the only problem I see is that this MAY discourage kids from wanting to play in the QMJHL if they cant pick and choose where they play.
The elite players, 80% of them, want to pick where they play. If they dont get that option they will go NCAA.
The elite players, 80% of them, want to pick where they play. If they dont get that option they will go NCAA.
Habs4Life
Registered User
Esposito will be rockless
An expansion team is going to rock Esposito? Yeah, ri-i-i-g-h-t! A team with no talent is going to threaten one of the league's top three franchises?
Get real. What you need to pray for is that the losses for your team won't be in the double digits because Quebec in 2005-06 will be the Oceanic in 2004-05.
Moreover, a top player wouldn't leave Shattuck for an Expansion team. The Fog Devils and/or the Sea Dogs may have drafted him, but he would have been moved in a multi-player deal somewhere else. Why? Because expansion teams or other bottom feeders need three to four years to make it to the top of the rankings. . .and Espo will only be in this league for two years, three at the most.
Plus, more money coming into the league with a star playing for a contending team -- Hello Sydney -- helps everyone. Le Colisee will add 2,000 to 3,000 per game, and other rinks will fill when the Remparts come to town.
Last but not least, had he stayed with an expansion team, he would only play one away game in the Quebec rinks (with the new divisional setup).
The Espositos did what was best for Angelo, that's their job. Patrick Roy did what was best for his team. That's his job.
There are no losers here. And I have a feeling that this season, or next season, Angie will be getting the same kind of attention that Sydney got. . .and the league will be jumping.
An expansion team is going to rock Esposito? Yeah, ri-i-i-g-h-t! A team with no talent is going to threaten one of the league's top three franchises?
Get real. What you need to pray for is that the losses for your team won't be in the double digits because Quebec in 2005-06 will be the Oceanic in 2004-05.
Moreover, a top player wouldn't leave Shattuck for an Expansion team. The Fog Devils and/or the Sea Dogs may have drafted him, but he would have been moved in a multi-player deal somewhere else. Why? Because expansion teams or other bottom feeders need three to four years to make it to the top of the rankings. . .and Espo will only be in this league for two years, three at the most.
Plus, more money coming into the league with a star playing for a contending team -- Hello Sydney -- helps everyone. Le Colisee will add 2,000 to 3,000 per game, and other rinks will fill when the Remparts come to town.
Last but not least, had he stayed with an expansion team, he would only play one away game in the Quebec rinks (with the new divisional setup).
The Espositos did what was best for Angelo, that's their job. Patrick Roy did what was best for his team. That's his job.
There are no losers here. And I have a feeling that this season, or next season, Angie will be getting the same kind of attention that Sydney got. . .and the league will be jumping.
GoSSCHgo said:
Angelo Esposito won't be filling buildings. He's no superstar, he's only the top prospect. His numbers at Shattuck aren't as impressive as they would be if he were so special (ala Crosby). I haven't seen him play but I doubt he'll but such a force in his first year and I really don't think he will be the one filling buildings.
Rahan said:
Good post. I think people are getting a bit carried away over this kid. He will be a very good player in the Q over time and a possible top ten pick in the 07 draft but he is no where near a Crosby type of player.
I said this before on another thread, my bet is that Alex Grant will end up being the better pro prospect and player in the next couple of years.
I know people that have kids who played with Esposito when he was younger. It came as no surprise that he would get to pick his team because he always played AAA in the summer without paying a cent.
His family always cashed in on his talent and I know as a fact that there was an agreement with the Remparts no matter what Mr. Roy tells everybody. Stop being hypocrites and tell it like it is. I don't know what the other teams are waiting for to go and give Courteau a piece of their mind.
It's a shame because the small markets will never be able to compete and like all the attention was on Rimouski for the past two years, now all the attention will be on the Remparts. Well let me tell you something, I saw Esposito play, he is no Crosby and no Lecavalier. He is scared in the corners and skates with his head low. Any player that wants to stop him can easily scare him off. I don't thing he is that great a deal and I would not be surprise if he got phantom passes just to boost his record.
That being said I am still a fan of the Q but I am rooting now for the MAritimes teams, you never hear about them and I think they have a much better division than the one in Quebec.
His family always cashed in on his talent and I know as a fact that there was an agreement with the Remparts no matter what Mr. Roy tells everybody. Stop being hypocrites and tell it like it is. I don't know what the other teams are waiting for to go and give Courteau a piece of their mind.
It's a shame because the small markets will never be able to compete and like all the attention was on Rimouski for the past two years, now all the attention will be on the Remparts. Well let me tell you something, I saw Esposito play, he is no Crosby and no Lecavalier. He is scared in the corners and skates with his head low. Any player that wants to stop him can easily scare him off. I don't thing he is that great a deal and I would not be surprise if he got phantom passes just to boost his record.
That being said I am still a fan of the Q but I am rooting now for the MAritimes teams, you never hear about them and I think they have a much better division than the one in Quebec.
GoSSCHgo said:An expansion team is going to rock Esposito? Yeah, ri-i-i-g-h-t! A team with no talent is going to threaten one of the league's top three franchises?
Get real. What you need to pray for is that the losses for your team won't be in the double digits because Quebec in 2005-06 will be the Oceanic in 2004-05.
Moreover, a top player wouldn't leave Shattuck for an Expansion team. The Fog Devils and/or the Sea Dogs may have drafted him, but he would have been moved in a multi-player deal somewhere else. Why? Because expansion teams or other bottom feeders need three to four years to make it to the top of the rankings. . .and Espo will only be in this league for two years, three at the most.
Plus, more money coming into the league with a star playing for a contending team -- Hello Sydney -- helps everyone. Le Colisee will add 2,000 to 3,000 per game, and other rinks will fill when the Remparts come to town.
Last but not least, had he stayed with an expansion team, he would only play one away game in the Quebec rinks (with the new divisional setup).
The Espositos did what was best for Angelo, that's their job. Patrick Roy did what was best for his team. That's his job.
There are no losers here. And I have a feeling that this season, or next season, Angie will be getting the same kind of attention that Sydney got. . .and the league will be jumping.
No offense inteded but the Remps wont contend next year. They have a swiss cheese defense and their offense is pretty much the same as last year.
La-La-Laprise said:
And actually, both expansions have pretty much selected all the top heavyweights as far as goons and fighters.
Don't worry, if they want to slam and shove Esposito into the boards, they will.
Quebec is far away from contention.
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