Recalled/Assigned: Andrey Pedan re-assisnged to Utica (Jan 12)

Scurr

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Jun 25, 2009
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Not a good comparison at all in my opinion. Murray was a very poor skater and Pedan is not. Pedan has a very good first step and can carry the puck much better. Skating is not the issue. Seeing the play and reacting are the problems. Murray , on the other hand, was fairly smart in his game. Just got too banged up to continue at the NHL level.

Right now Pedan is too tentative and too much back on his heels. Much better in the AHL when he was assertive.

I think the better comparison is Tyler Myers in his early Buffalo years who was prone to the consistent awkward mistakes.

Pedan has all the physical tools but needs experience.

Murray only had to think about half of what Pedan is, though. Defensive defensemen often get a lot of credit for being smart compared to two way or offensive guys but in reality it's much easier. It's like comparing the grade of someone in remedial math to another in advanced placement.

I thought Pedan played much better last night.
 
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cc

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Feb 28, 2002
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I don't think there is much chance of Pedan clearing waivers next year, especially after what happened with Corrado. Pedan has too many raw tools for a team to pass up. He is not "trash", but not yet the finished article. I am in favour of keeping as one of 8 defensemen next year, and taking time to develop him in sheltered roles. He has his flaws but if he improves his decision making with experience (which is certainly possible), he would make an excellent bottom pairing dman, possibly a number 4.

I would like to see:

Edler - Tanev
Hamhuis - Hutton
Tryamkin - Larssen
Pedan - Biega

If they aren't going to get rid of Sbisa I think it will be a battle between Biega and Larssen for the last spot.

I'm in favor of keeping Pedan too. I think whatever positive elements Sbisa brings to the table will eventually be far exceeded by Pedan in every way and will provide a good excuse to trade him. I think the team can use someone of Pedan's physicality and overall "truculence"
 

Jay Cee

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May 8, 2007
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I'm in favor of keeping Pedan too. I think whatever positive elements Sbisa brings to the table will eventually be far exceeded by Pedan in every way. I think the team can use someone of Pedan's physicality and overall "truculence"

Big time. Our team is embarrassingly soft.
 

Bad Goalie

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Jan 2, 2014
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Because I don't think it's all that instructive to judge a player when they're playing poorly by their own standard. Pedan wasn't playing well in the AHL before his recall and then carried that over into his recent stint in the NHL. When he was playing better earlier in the year in the AHL and got recalled, he looked better in the NHL.



Sbisa has been brought up a bunch of times… I don't think that's fair to Pedan. He has been inconsistent but it's not a situation where he only looks good in 1/10th the games he plays. I brought up Edler because he has also been inconsistent at times in his career. There have been times when the majority thought he was a #1 in the league…. there have also been times when the majority thought he was trash and couldn't get rid of him fast enough. He's not either of those players, he's something in between. Bieksa could have been used as well in that regard but he's not nearly as "toolsy" as Edler is.

No problem using my deleted post. I took it down because it was in response to my belief that Pedan was coming back. That was erroneous so my thoughts were irrelevant at that time. I was commenting on what needed to be done to get him back to playing his A-game which he had lost when he was returned in January. I'd post the same info if he returned today.
 

DadBod

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I loved Pedan at the time and think he'll be a fine depth defenseman who brings some edge. Don't forget he won both hardest shot and fastest skater at the skills comp.
 

PM

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Apr 8, 2014
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Keep Pedan for one more year and see if he improves but after that it is going to be hard to keep him on the roster if he can't hold down a #7 spot on defense at least. Fighting will be gone entirely in a few years anyways, it barely even serves a purpose nowadays.
 

Scurr

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Jun 25, 2009
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Not a good comparison at all in my opinion. Murray was a very poor skater and Pedan is not. Pedan has a very good first step and can carry the puck much better. Skating is not the issue. Seeing the play and reacting are the problems. Murray , on the other hand, was fairly smart in his game. Just got too banged up to continue at the NHL level.

Right now Pedan is too tentative and too much back on his heels. Much better in the AHL when he was assertive.

I think the better comparison is Tyler Myers in his early Buffalo years who was prone to the consistent awkward mistakes.

Pedan has all the physical tools but needs experience.

Murray only had to think about half of what Pedan is, though. Defensive defensemen often get a lot of credit for being smart compared to two way or offensive guys but in reality it's much easier. It's like comparing the grade of someone in remedial math to another in advanced placement.

I just wanted to expand on this a little to better make my point. I agree with Murray being considered a pretty smart player. I don't think he's the kind of guy that had to go to remedial defence school. He was a decent top 4 option because he could find the open guy and did a pretty good job supporting the puck up the ice. A lot like Chris Tanev. These guys aren't sacrificing offense so much as just being happy to take what's given to them. Still, it's easier to play without the pressure of trying to make something happen offensively. Tanev uses his quick feet to create space for himself and is a very good passer and this safe game suits his style. The tendency is to give a guy like this high marks for hockey smarts. He's certainly very good at it but it's not the toughest class.

A guy like Edler is a little more uneven but is also trying to do a lot more offensively. Tanev will look to the middle of the ice for someone wide open and then up the boards or to his partner. Safe 90% plays. Edler doesn't need the guy to be wide open to give it a shot and he's going to look to make a play cross ice if he can (70% plays). It's not that he doesn't think the game well… he's just playing a different game. The stakes are higher but often so is the reward. The tendency is to give these guys a lower grade for hockey smarts unless they're amongst the really elite at it but it's a much tougher class.

AV used to talk a lot about making high percentage plays yet he still had a lot of time for the high stakes games that Edler and Bieksa played. I think he realized that you can get so far with making those 90% plays that keep the puck out of danger but you're really relying on the other team to make mistakes to score. Those 70% passes are a little riskier but often make for a much better chance at scoring. The play happens fast out there, though, sometimes plays look like 70%... but are really only 40%. When these guys aren't reading the play really well, that can happen a lot. 40% plays rarely disguise themselves as 90% plays but still, I think you need to assume some risk to score regularly.

Rome was the kind of guy that went to remedial defence school. He probably didn't have the talent to go looking for anything more than 100% plays. So, he looked for someone wide open or banged it out off the glass. He's sacrificing some offence to play a really safe game and avoid blowing his wad on a bad bet. You used to see a lot more of this before teams started putting more of an emphasis on possession. Sbisa has some talent but just doesn't think the game well enough to know if it's a 90% play or 40% play. He could use some remedial defence school.

I'm not saying that Edler could play Tanev's game and earn the same grades but I don't think Tanev could play Edler's game as well, either. Pedan is taking the same class Edler is right now. I think it's too early to send him to class with Tanev or to remedial school. With a little more experience the juice might be worth the squeeze and he can always switch classes later if his grades don't improve.
 
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absolute garbage

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Jan 22, 2006
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Yeaah about that..

In the real world, Pedan is taking the same class Sbisa is now. A player that tries to take the "easy way" but still sucks ass.
 

Scurr

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Jun 25, 2009
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Yeaah about that..

In the real world, Pedan is taking the same class Sbisa is now. A player that tries to take the "easy way" but still sucks ass.

Yeah, they are taking the same class. It's not the easy class, though, it's advanced placement for defensemen. Only the really talented need apply. Luca has been there way longer than Pedan, though, and hasn't shown any improvement. It's time for him to take the hit to his ego and go to the remedial class before he gets kicked out of school completely. There's still hope for Pedan in this class imo.
 

Proto

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Jan 30, 2010
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Not only is he an intriguing prospect, he also has the perfect skill set to slot in behind Edler and Hutton on the left side long term. Nice to have that nastiness to go along with the poised, smooth puck handling of Hutton.

Still one of my favourite prospects in the organization. Such a rare, unique talent.

Hard to imagine this level of optimism exists after Pedan's regression over the subsequent 3 months. For all his raw speed when he's skating, Pedan is not very "quick" in his own end of the ice. Both his decision making and pivots + start/stop leave a lot to be desired. I'm not sold that he's ever more than a waiver-wire 7/8 depth guy.
 

absolute garbage

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Yeah, they are taking the same class. It's not the easy class, though, it's advanced placement for defensemen. Only the really talented need apply. Luca has been there way longer than Pedan, though, and hasn't shown any improvement. It's time for him to take the hit to his ego and go to the remedial class before he gets kicked out of school completely. There's still hope for Pedan in this class imo.

He's got about 5 games and a training camp+preseason to do that. At least with the Canucks organisation.

Given where he is now, with all the fundamental issues in his game, seems like a miracle is needed.

Like I've said before, I see a player who hasn't improved noticeably at the AHL level despite spending the max time there (for a legitimate prospect). Is by no means a dominating AHL player, more middle of the pack (like Corrado was). These players almost never make it and you know it.

I see a player who is consistently a step or two behind, whether it's because of his poor mobility or decision making and ability to read the play. Just like Sbisa, he struggles so much even just making those everyday decisions. It's not like these guys are trying some complicated high-risk high-reward moves, they are just bad players that can't function properly in simple tasks. It takes a certain amount of skill and headiness to make those safe plays consistently and be a "Rome" you know.

Tryamkin looked so much better in his first ever NA pro game than Pedan did in his ~130th. And I don't think Tryamkin is going to be a top 4 guy either. Admire the optimism but the amount of rope you are giving this guy is very out-of-touch.
 

Bad Goalie

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Jan 2, 2014
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Since the Canucks now appear to have 8 healthy D-men and the general trend here is to state Pedan doesn't have it, what say he be returned to Utica for their last 9 game drive for a playoff spot. They have a 2-point lead on their rival down the street, Syracuse and play them 3 more times. They are very physical and the Comets could use Andrey.

The Canucks have nothing to play for and are playing exactly like that. He's sitting anyways and Tryamkin is sitting tonight as well. Let Tryamkin rotate in and out.

Gaunce and Pedan are the only players coming back to Utica at season's end anyways since Jimbo and Wise(?) Bro didn't think to paper anyone else. Might as well let Pedan get a head start.
 

Scurr

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Jun 25, 2009
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He's got about 5 games and a training camp+preseason to do that. At least with the Canucks organisation.

Given where he is now, with all the fundamental issues in his game, seems like a miracle is needed.

I'd keep him around as the 7th or 8th guy next year and keep developing him at the NHL level.

Like I've said before, I see a player who hasn't improved noticeably at the AHL level despite spending the max time there (for a legitimate prospect). Is by no means a dominating AHL player, more middle of the pack (like Corrado was). These players almost never make it and you know it.

You have said it before, but that doesn't make it true.
Bad Goalie said:
The Andrey Pedan we watched develop was a first pairing down here. That has to be at least a 3rd pairing D-man in the making for up there. It would definitely be better than Weber, Bartkowski, and Sbisa. Steady, solid D first and offense second. The 3 mentioned are not solid and therefore dependable in their own end.

He has been inconsistent down there but has certainly improved.

And I find the "long-shot" argument to be flawed. It doesn't apply evenly to all prospects and given that the pool of players that are going to make it is limited to about 20%, it's far more egregious to shrink that more by missing on prospects then to hold out hope for some guys that don't end up cutting it. Kevin Connauton would look pretty good on this team right now.

I see a player who is consistently a step or two behind, whether it's because of his poor mobility or decision making and ability to read the play. Just like Sbisa, he struggles so much even just making those everyday decisions. It's not like these guys are trying some complicated high-risk high-reward moves, they are just bad players that can't function properly in simple tasks. It takes a certain amount of skill and headiness to make those safe plays consistently and be a "Rome" you know.

Meh. It's a smart business decision for guys that don't have the talent to play in the top 4 but it doesn't take a ton of hockey skill or headiness to shoot the puck off the glass.

Tryamkin looked so much better in his first ever NA pro game than Pedan did in his ~130th. And I don't think Tryamkin is going to be a top 4 guy either. Admire the optimism but the amount of rope you are giving this guy is very out-of-touch.

Tryamkin has a lot of pro experience, though, and plays a different game than Pedan.

Anyway, you've basically ignored any points I've made, repeated your arguments and continued to take shots at me. I think this discussion has run its course. I look forward to revisiting it this time next season.
 
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Tim McCracken

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Jan 4, 2010
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Hard to imagine this level of optimism exists after Pedan's regression over the subsequent 3 months. For all his raw speed when he's skating, Pedan is not very "quick" in his own end of the ice. Both his decision making and pivots + start/stop leave a lot to be desired. I'm not sold that he's ever more than a waiver-wire 7/8 depth guy.

The guy's 22 and has played 9 games including one at forward and look at what he's been surrounded by. Bartkowski, Weber, Biega. Horrible. I'd rather see them get rid of those three and Sbisa, sign Hamhuis and another solid vet and see how they help with Pedan and Tryamkin, and even help Hutton progress further, before passing any judgement.
 

ProstheticConscience

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Apr 30, 2010
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The guy's 22 and has played 9 games including one at forward and look at what he's been surrounded by. Bartkowski, Weber, Biega. Horrible. I'd rather see them get rid of those three and Sbisa, sign Hamhuis and another solid vet and see how they help with Pedan and Tryamkin, and even help Hutton progress further, before passing any judgement.

Actually 2 games at forward. His first NHL game he was on the 4th line.

But definitely agree. Tryamkin has been by far the better of the two this stretch, but I'm not willing to give up on Pedan yet.
 

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