Andreas Johnsson needs to be in the Leafs line up

[showtime8]

Work rate is very high. He is a very smart player in terms of taking angles at players to retrieve the puck. Skilled offensively and could play anywhere in the top 9 and not look out of place.

At the moment, I don't think he gets the call-up.

If the Leafs are trading JVR or Bozak, those are NHL quality forwards. We're just hoping that Johnsson would be. I'd rather have a sure thing come into the line-up.

 

[thewave]

Work rate is very high. He is a very smart player in terms of taking angles at players to retrieve the puck. Skilled offensively and could play anywhere in the top 9 and not look out of place.

At the moment, I don't think he gets the call-up.

If the Leafs are trading JVR or Bozak, those are NHL quality forwards. We're just hoping that Johnsson would be. I'd rather have a sure thing come into the line-up.

This is the predicament. If we trade Bozak and JVR you have to imagine it's to get an upgrade at different positions so we can contend. That only makes sense if we trade for guys with term. If that happens there is no shot given due to the lack of spot and yet another prospect will go left unseen and be traded for a 3rd.

That's the cycle of development we have started here and it's not good but can be corrected this year, but, it requires faith, trading JVR and Bozak as well as Martin. Injecting Leivo moving maybe Marleau to C and tossing Sosh in as well. Big downgrade most likely, fans will hate it that want to contend and bad optics. They could maybe also trade for a replacement C for Bozak as well that's an upgrade because we are weak that way.

 

[DarkKnight]

Work rate is very high. He is a very smart player in terms of taking angles at players to retrieve the puck. Skilled offensively and could play anywhere in the top 9 and not look out of place.

At the moment, I don't think he gets the call-up.

If the Leafs are trading JVR or Bozak, those are NHL quality forwards. We're just hoping that Johnsson would be. I'd rather have a sure thing come into the line-up.

He has a good quick release as well, he may be one of those guys who actually looks better playing with more skilled players in the NHL. Kid can bury his chances.

 

[deletethis]

When Johnsson does come up, he'll be prepared to flourish even on a 4th line.

 

[MattySnipes]

I've always been a fan of him, he was a draft pick from the old regime. 7th round in 2013. He works hard, really hard and plays a very high IQ game. He really caught my eye this pre-season. Babs played him a lot and he was fantastic. Obviously, expectations were tempered because its pre-season, but I was looking forward to seeing him a few times this year. Hopefully he's on the roster next year. Seeing guys like Bozak & JVR going through motions, not giving it their all has made me hope our great depth in the AHL can provide some gems to the big club. The one guy I'd bring back is Komo. He's having a down year and he will be back to normal next year. A one year deal would be nice .

 

[PuckMagi]

I thought Johnsson looked great in pre-season! Looked like a pure playmaker to me. I think Matthews needs two skilled playmakers on his wings to make those short little passes to him, which Johnsson and Marner look elite at. I think one playmaker is all that is needed on most lines... but Matthews could really use two because he needs to be shooting, shooting, shooting. Nylander is also a great playmaker, but I think he is also a good sniper too and he is better at making long crisp passes whereas Marner and Johnsson are better at making shorter and more creative passes. I think Matthews would benefit more from those short and creative passes because it would work better with his quick shot.

Would like to see this next year:

Johnsson - Matthews - Marner
Marleau - Nylander - Kapanen
xxxxxx - Kadri - Brown

 

[showtime8]

This is the predicament. If we trade Bozak and JVR you have to imagine it's to get an upgrade at different positions so we can contend. That only makes sense if we trade for guys with term. If that happens there is no shot given due to the lack of spot and yet another prospect will go left unseen and be traded for a 3rd.

That's the cycle of development we have started here and it's not good but can be corrected this year, but, it requires faith, trading JVR and Bozak as well as Martin. Injecting Leivo moving maybe Marleau to C and tossing Sosh in as well. Big downgrade most likely, fans will hate it that want to contend and bad optics. They could maybe also trade for a replacement C for Bozak as well that's an upgrade because we are weak that way.

This point is made for a bigger discussion and ties into what we're talking about with Johnsson.

At what point will it be okay for the Leafs to say no prospects coming through in lieu of other veterans?

Because as it stands, the Leafs have Bozak, Brown, Hyman, Kadri, Kapanen, Komarov, Leivo, Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Dermott, Gardiner, Rielly & Zaitsev (Soshnikov too, but won't count him in totals) all drafted by the organization or acquired as prospects before they were to play an NHL game. That's 14 of 23 players on the active roster (61%) of players acquired/developed by the Leafs.

There are too many variables at stake here to determine when Johnsson were to get a call-up:
- If JVR gets traded, what is the return? If he doesn't get traded, does he re-sign or just walk in FA?
- Same thing for Martin & Leivo, etc.
- Would you feel comfortable having him in the same role as Leivo and he can be a fill in periodically? They are 1 year difference in age.
- What line is he best suited for? Kapanen gets 4th line minutes, is played on the pk and crushed the AHL in terms of stats and it was in the Leafs best interest to bring him in so it looks like they got something from the Kessel trade. So saying all that, at best, Johsson would get 4th line minutes and be forced to play on the PK.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Think he's going to want some assurances about next year or would rather head to the SHL.

Pretty heavy assumption to make. Not sure why you would think he would want to go back to the SHL before even playing an NHL game. If it isn't with us he will be playing for someone.

 

[Randy Randerson]

remember the last time we had 3 forward prospects fighting for a 4th line spot when they all had good upside and were all ready for NHL jobs?

....me neither. I guess this is a symptom of good development, wish they could all play but its better than having the franchise's hopes hanging on Steen & Wellwood turning into stars while they're forced into top 6 roles too early

 

[Buds17]

Next in line when the need is for a winger, I'd imagine. Think his game will translate nicely to the NHL level.

 

[rent free]

gotta wait your turn ...hes a beauty tho

I want him to be on the 2nd line with nylander and kapanen next season and I want that line to be the best in the NHL so it would piss of don cherry. #oldidiot

 

[rent free]

remember the last time we had 3 forward prospects fighting for a 4th line spot when they all had good upside and were all ready for NHL jobs?

....me neither. I guess this is a symptom of good development, wish they could all play but its better than having the franchise's hopes hanging on Steen & Wellwood turning into stars while they're forced into top 6 roles too early

pepperridge farms remembers.

 

[Raging Bull]

Just another guy for Leivo to have to jump over?

 

[JEI]

Won't happen this year unless they deal a combination of their UFAs. They need to make room for him and Kapanen.

 

[thewave]

remember the last time we had 3 forward prospects fighting for a 4th line spot when they all had good upside and were all ready for NHL jobs?

....me neither. I guess this is a symptom of good development, wish they could all play but its better than having the franchise's hopes hanging on Steen & Wellwood turning into stars while they're forced into top 6 roles too early

Lets put it in another way... If you don't have anything to regulate the fuel getting pumped into an engine it will flood and stall. You want the right fuel air mix for combustion. It's a good and bad situation, mostly bad because all the assets that stood / stand to walk away for nothing with no expected equivalent ready to take their place.

Who replaces JVR? Nobody this good in system
Who replaces Bozak? Nobody this good (unless we move Nylander)
Who replaces Komarov? Sosh? He is on the market for trade.

 

[highslot]

But who is he better than in the top 9? you have to have room and we don't, and we won't until next season when and if JVR leaves.

Keep him down until there is room

there's no room right now, but to answer your question:

i've said this for over a year, but he's better than brown.

he's also better than babcock's son but smaller, more useful than uncle leo in the top 9, in general would be a good substitute for martin and 4c.

i'd move leo to 4c, but i'm not the coach i guess.

i would rather trade brown and move up aj next year if we have to create space, than vice versa. but i'd rather let martin go, trade bozak, leivo and sosh while they have some value. i hate wasting assets.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Lets put it in another way... If you don't have anything to regulate the fuel getting pumped into an engine it will flood and stall. You want the right fuel air mix for combustion. It's a good and bad situation, mostly bad because all the assets that stood / stand to walk away for nothing with no expected equivalent ready to take their place.

Who replaces JVR? Nobody this good in system
Who replaces Bozak? Nobody this good (unless we move Nylander)
Who replaces Komarov? Sosh? He is on the market for trade.

I think that metaphor is a bit forced...the coaching staff is regulating who gets used and I don't know what "stall" means in this context, like the team isn't going to stop working because it has too many players coming out of the minors looking for jobs

would also say that Leivo is a tailor made JVR replacement if he turns out. You're going to get a bit of a downgrade within 10 feet of the net unless you're getting one of a handful of guys in the league, but Leivo's more talented there than lots of guys who play that role successfully around the league and he's a much better possession player than JVR. Just need to figure out if he can play at a good offensive clip over the long term

Bozak is replaceable, whether its from inside or not. Marleau may be an option there too. It also might not be a foregone conclusion that Bozak goes, like if he'll come back for similar or less money than he's making now for a 2 year contract that might be worthwhile

Komarov is very repaceable - Kapanen, Johnsson, Grundstrom all seem to have the skillset to play that role, they might not do it exactly the way that Komarov does but that's not necessary. Just need someone who can play both ways and suppress good opposition

 

[dubplatepressure]

Won't happen this year unless they deal a combination of their UFAs. They need to make room for him and Kapanen.

It's like people don't understand this.

 

[thewave]

I think that metaphor is a bit forced...the coaching staff is regulating who gets used and I don't know what "stall" means in this context, like the team isn't going to stop working because it has too many players coming out of the minors looking for jobs

would also say that Leivo is a tailor made JVR replacement if he turns out. You're going to get a bit of a downgrade within 10 feet of the net unless you're getting one of a handful of guys in the league, but Leivo's more talented there than lots of guys who play that role successfully around the league and he's a much better possession player than JVR. Just need to figure out if he can play at a good offensive clip over the long term

Bozak is replaceable, whether its from inside or not. Marleau may be an option there too. It also might not be a foregone conclusion that Bozak goes, like if he'll come back for similar or less money than he's making now for a 2 year contract that might be worthwhile

Komarov is very repaceable - Kapanen, Johnsson, Grundstrom all seem to have the skillset to play that role, they might not do it exactly the way that Komarov does but that's not necessary. Just need someone who can play both ways and suppress good opposition

The whole point is if we don't have the opportunity to showcase these prospects, they have no value. If they have no value when traded, we lose potentially good players for pennies on the dollar. Think about it, you build worth by showing what you can do. If you can't do that, you have no worth to other teams but they may pay to take a chance on you.

A healthy system is like Chicago.

Sell UFA -> Play best prospect 2-3 yrs -> Trade for picks -> Insert new pick [[Rinse Repeat]] and if you find UFA or a good trade along the way, EXECUTE IT.

 

[Randy Randerson]

The whole point is if we don't have the opportunity to showcase these prospects, they have no value. If they have no value when traded, we lose potentially good players for pennies on the dollar. Think about it, you build worth by showing what you can do. If you can't do that, you have no worth to other teams but they may pay to take a chance on you.

A healthy system is like Chicago.

Sell UFA -> Play best prospect 2-3 yrs -> Trade for picks -> Insert new pick [[Rinse Repeat]] and if you find UFA or a good trade along the way, EXECUTE IT.

ah, I get it. And I agree with that, but I also think that our control of these prospects extends beyond the time where we'll need replacements, so there should be time to get them all a look. I think there's space for all 3 of those guys if/when they turn out, it'll be the wave behind them that's in really tough because they'll be looking to replace RFA guys in their primes not UFA guys in their 30's.

But, as those RFA's come due for raises, they'll be tradeable for big returns if we have system replacements. Like Connor Brown at the end of his next contract, if he's due for a $5-6M deal it will be because he's earned it and the league will have a lot of demand for a 26yo guy who's play warrants that kind of pay day.

So I think that's where you'll get your rinse-and-repeat process, replacing RFA's who are due for big raises with ELC's, like Saad in Chicago

I also don't think Chicago is a shining example, Toews/Kane aren't 30 yet and the team is in decline. But I think their model was good, they just didn't draft/develop that well for a while

 

[IBeL34f]

How is there any impatience wanting to see Johnsson now? He is ready. He played a couple of seasons in the SHL and has now almost completed his 2nd full season with the Marlies in the AHL. He is 23. I would say he has paid his dues.

I am all about patience in the rebuild. I think we should trade the UFA's even if we are a bit weaker to finish the season, because in the long term it is the right decision.

Because our 9th-place NHL roster is overfull right now as it stands already. We literally need to make a trade or undeservedly send down Kapanen or Dermott just so that our current team can meet roster regulations. So to see how well both teams are doing, to understand the current roster situation, and then to try and suggest that a waiver-exempt player with no previous NHL experience needs to be in the lineup right now definitely seems impatient to me.

Andreas Johnsson just needs to keep focusing on his play, and his opportunity will come. It might be two weeks from now after the Trade Deadline, or it might be next season - either option is fine, he's not a dire situation that Lamoriello needs to take care of right this instant. Leading the Marlies through a deep Playoff run should be fantastic for his development and confidence, it's not like he's rotting away, getting scarce opportunities on a bad team going nowhere.

 

[Pyromaniac]

The whole point is if we don't have the opportunity to showcase these prospects, they have no value. If they have no value when traded, we lose potentially good players for pennies on the dollar. Think about it, you build worth by showing what you can do. If you can't do that, you have no worth to other teams but they may pay to take a chance on you.

A healthy system is like Chicago.

Sell UFA -> Play best prospect 2-3 yrs -> Trade for picks -> Insert new pick [[Rinse Repeat]] and if you find UFA or a good trade along the way, EXECUTE IT.

When you build a great development system it makes it harder on fringe players to make the roster and that to me is a positive and not a negative. Some of these fringe players are going to move on and find success elsewhere but as long as you continue drafting well you can always replenish the talent pool.

Tampa lost Marchessault and Panik, one of their best prospects chose never to even come over from Russia (Gusev).

So maybe you do lose guys like Leivo, Leipsic, Soshnikov, for nothing. I just don't see the reason to care about it anymore. We have enough wingers in the organization. If someone that isn't good enough to play for our team goes and becomes a player elsewhere that just means we are the better team, its harder to make our roster.

 

[highslot]

I know very little about him , what is his style? Is he a soft skilled forward? A power forward? Is he more Leo like or Marner like?

He won POW for week ending Feb 4th.

he's been compared to a cammarelli. he has some skill, good north south, great speed and hustle, excellent skater, goal scorer's shot, not as good a release as nylander, but better than kadri. not as good as kappy speed-wise, but could probably keep up with nylander at c, maybe slightly behind. solid edges but not marner level.

not a grinder but not afraid of contact and goes to the net, top six but not top line vision. babcock won't like him as much as real gud proTM connor brown who is a similar size, but aj has a great motor himself.

 

[highslot]

How? He is tiny. We are making the smurfs I guess. Mtl tried that, look at them.

that's a pretty big generalization. only uncle leo and sosh are under six. 5 players 6'2 and over. we can use 1 player who is 5'10 and fast and skilled.

players 6 feet or over

Tyler Bozak (A) Connor Brown Zach Hyman Nazem Kadri Kasperi Kapanen Josh Leivo Patrick Marleau Mitchell Marner Matt Martin Auston Matthews Dominic Moore William Nylander James van Riemsdyk [TBODY] [/TBODY]

# Pos Sh Ht Wt Born Birthplace 42 C R 6' 1" 199 Mar 19, 1986 Regina, SK, CAN 28 RW R 6' 0" 185 Jan 14, 1994 Toronto, ON, CAN 11 C R 6' 1" 213 Jun 9, 1992 Toronto, ON, CAN 43 C L 6' 0" 190 Oct 6, 1990 London, ON, CAN 24 RW R 6' 1" 187 Jul 23, 1996 Kuopio, FIN 47 C L 5' 11" 209 Jan 23, 1987 Narva, EST 32 LW R 6' 2" 210 May 26, 1993 Innisfil, ON, CAN 12 C L 6' 2" 215 Sep 15, 1979 Aneroid, SK, CAN 16 C R 6' 0" 175 May 5, 1997 Markham, ON, CAN 15 LW L 6' 3" 220 May 8, 1989 Windsor, ON, CAN 34 C L 6' 3" 216 Sep 17, 1997 San Ramon, CA, USA 20 C L 6' 0" 192 Aug 3, 1980 Thornhill, ON, CAN 29 C R 6' 0" 191 May 1, 1996 Calgary, AB, CAN 26 RW L 5' 11" 185 Oct 14, 1993 Nizhny Tagil, RUS 25 LW L 6' 3" 217 May 4, 1989 Middletown, NJ, USA [TBODY] [/TBODY] [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[thewave]

When you build a great development system it makes it harder on fringe players to make the roster and that to me is a positive and not a negative. Some of these fringe players are going to move on and find success elsewhere but as long as you continue drafting well you can always replenish the talent pool.

Tampa lost Marchessault and Panik, one of their best prospects chose never to even come over from Russia (Gusev).

So maybe you do lose guys like Leivo, Leipsic, Soshnikov, for nothing. I just don't see the reason to care about it anymore. We have enough wingers in the organization. If someone that isn't good enough to play for our team goes and becomes a player elsewhere that just means we are the better team, its harder to make our roster.

There is a lot of truth to this but the problem is, we're not Tampa yet. Moving the UFA would nearly put us in the same situation. It's all about starting a positive asset cycle and development program.