Andreas Athanasiou

[Shaman464]

He just scored 30 playing largely with Glendening or Nielsen.
If AA was playing with Larkin, with Mantha's minutes, he'd easily scored 35 if not 40 goals.
He'd never have 70 assists though.
But he could go 40-35-75 at his peak. I'm certain of it.

What's tomorrow's lottery numbers? Because you're saying he's going to be better than Larkin.

 

[MBH]

What's tomorrow's lottery numbers? Because you're saying he's going to be better than Larkin.

No. But I do think AA's offensive skills are equal to or better than Larkin's.
But Larkin is the better two way guy and works better along the boards - even if AA's defensive woes are vastly overblown.
Larkin is also a center and what? A 55 percent faceoff guy now?

 

[Shaman464]

No. But I do think AA's offensive skills are equal to or better than Larkin's.
But Larkin is the better two way guy and works better along the boards - even if AA's defensive woes are vastly overblown.
Larkin is also a center and what? A 55 percent faceoff guy now?

At 25 he hasn't shown these skills. And he's not a Franzen level late bloomer, he's likely a career 50-60 guy.

 

[LarKing]

At 25 he hasn't shown these skills. And he's not a Franzen level late bloomer, he's likely a career 50-60 guy.

Which is fine. Every team needs these kind of guys that can play with anyone and put up 20-30 goals. Especially come playoff time where goals are harder to score and AA can make offense out of nothing at times.

 

[nbwingsfan]

What's tomorrow's lottery numbers? Because you're saying he's going to be better than Larkin.

No, he’s saying he “could” score more points than a 22yo Larkin, which definitely is possible.

As has already been stated he scored 30 playing with offensively challenged line mates for the majority of the season.

He is a very flawed player who coasts defensively, struggles on the cycle and often has tunnel vision... but there’s no denying he’s got a ton of offensive talent.

A very good 2nd liner who isn’t going to drag down a 1st line. A great complimentary piece.

 

[nbwingsfan]

At 25 he hasn't shown these skills. And he's not a Franzen level late bloomer, he's likely a career 50-60 guy.

You claim one guy has the “lottery numbers” and then go on to say he’s NOT a late bloomer and just a 50-60 guy for his career.

Talk about hypocrisy

 

[DanZ]

No. But I do think AA's offensive skills are equal to or better than Larkin's.
But Larkin is the better two way guy and works better along the boards - even if AA's defensive woes are vastly overblown.
Larkin is also a center and what? A 55 percent faceoff guy now?

I think AA's individual scoring skills are as good or better than Larkin's. I don't think his playmaking skills are nearly as good. Larkin makes his teammates better. AA doesn't.

 

[Shaman464]

You claim one guy has the “lottery numbers” and then go on to say he’s NOT a late bloomer and just a 50-60 guy for his career.

Talk about hypocrisy

Look up what Certain means vs Likely. But, if you want to believe he's a 40 goal/75 point guy, that's your choice.

 

[Shaman464]

No, he’s saying he “could” score more points than a 22yo Larkin, which definitely is possible.

As has already been stated he scored 30 playing with offensively challenged line mates for the majority of the season.

He is a very flawed player who coasts defensively, struggles on the cycle and often has tunnel vision... but there’s no denying he’s got a ton of offensive talent.

A very good 2nd liner who isn’t going to drag down a 1st line. A great complimentary piece.

Except he doesn't use his linemates, and people talk about how offensively challenged his linemates were as if he played the whole season with trash. Look up his TOI with linemates and he wasn't slotted next to Glendening as much as people try to make it seem.

 

[Sempiternal]

I'd like to see him play with McDavid.

 

[MBH]

I think AA's individual scoring skills are as good or better than Larkin's. I don't think his playmaking skills are nearly as good. Larkin makes his teammates better. AA doesn't.

Yeah, Larkin is a more consistent and usually better playmaker. But I don't think the difference is that vast.
I also disagree that AA doesn't make linemates better.

 

[MBH]

Look up what Certain means vs Likely. But, if you want to believe he's a 40 goal/75 point guy, that's your choice.

I remember when people said he wouldn't score 20. Or 30.
All it took was icetime.
He hit 30 goals playing with Glendening a substantial portion of the year.

So,
1) Increase icetime.
2) Better linemates.
3) Maybe a better passing defenseman.

Why wouldn't he improve?

 

[nbwingsfan]

Except he doesn't use his linemates, and people talk about how offensively challenged his linemates were as if he played the whole season with trash. Look up his TOI with linemates and he wasn't slotted next to Glendening as much as people try to make it seem.

He did play almost the entire season with trash. He played almost no minutes with Larkin/Mantha at even strength (the only two real offensive players) and was even on PP2 for a good part of the season.

His most common line mates were Nielsen, Helm, Glendenning and Vanek

 

[TheOtherOne]

I think people severely underestimate the impact of the defense on forwards' production.

What defenseman did we have last year capable of passing the puck well enough to generate scoring chances? Getting dangerous and accurate shots in from the blue line that could be tipped/rebounded? Sustaining offensive zone time?

An old and injured Kronwall? Maybe young rookie Hronek? Our leader Kronwall had 24 assists good for #50th defenseman in the league, and anyone else we have worth mentioning played half the season.

I think if you managed to put together a decent Stanley Cup playoffs-worthy defense, you would add a significant number of goals to every single forward on the team. There's no way that doesn't have a massive impact.

It's like the difference between going 3 on 5 or 5 on 5 every time you're trying to put pressure on in the offensive zone.

 

[vladdy16]

AA is one of the last players who you should be thinking his production is dependent on context and linemates. I'm not saying it means nothing, but compared to pretty much any other player or player type in the league, AA's 1 on 1 offense, and inexperience as a playmaker make for a player where the eye test is as accurate as you need it to be.

He has room to grow for sure. If his production improves, it will be because he did. If it doesn't, then you have yourself a nice wildcard 2nd/3rd line goalscoring winger, no matter who he plays with.

 

[newfy]

I feel like this is kind of a myth.

When you watch AA flying in, he sometimes uses linemates to a fault, trying to force passes that can't work, when he should really just go to the net and shoot and let teammates clean up the garbage.
There are times when AA looks like a good passer and times when he looks pretty ordinary.

AA needs guys who can get him the puck on the move.

There aren't many times when I remember thinking, man, AA should have passed instead of shooting there.

I dont know how anyone can watch Atahanasiou play and think he uses his linemates well.

I agree with you that if he had some dmen who could move the puck he would score even more on the rush and could maybe push a 40 goal season, but you dont need to bullshit about his ability to pass and use his teammates for that to be true. I also think because of the style of hockey AA plays, the quality of his linemates wont have a massive impact on his scoring. He reminds me of Evander Kane in that way. Lots of speed and individual skills, theyre going to score 25-35 goals a year regardless of their place in the line up. Which is great come playoff time when a guy plays on the third line and can blow a game open like Athanasiou can

 

[Mickey Marner]

He's been a 1v5 player since Jr. if not earlier. Detroit could at least give him some more PK/EN time and he could become a Grabner-type ENG/SHG suck.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I feel like he'd fetch a lot of value and a good fit for a team with a Top Centreman that doesn't have a winger.

He'd be an excellent fit with McDavid.

 

[MBH]

I dont know how anyone can watch Atahanasiou play and think he uses his linemates well.

I agree with you that if he had some dmen who could move the puck he would score even more on the rush and could maybe push a 40 goal season, but you dont need to bull**** about his ability to pass and use his teammates for that to be true. I also think because of the style of hockey AA plays, the quality of his linemates wont have a massive impact on his scoring. He reminds me of Evander Kane in that way. Lots of speed and individual skills, theyre going to score 25-35 goals a year regardless of their place in the line up. Which is great come playoff time when a guy plays on the third line and can blow a game open like Athanasiou can

I don't think he uses them poorly.
First of all, for the most part, he's had shitty linemates the majority of his career.
So Luke Glendening just posted a career high in points after spending a considerable portion of his season with AA.
Taro Hirose had a nice points-per-game playing alongside AA.

I don't think he's elite at using his linemates, despite his ability to make elite plays from time to time.
He seems to get nervous with the puck and force passes some times.

But there's a narrative out there that he's selfish or a puck hog, and I think that that narrative sucks.

In the last 3 years he's got 11 goals and 14 assists when on the ice with Larin. 10 primary assists.
He's got 6 goals and 7 assists with Mantha. 5 primary assists.

With Nielsen? 15 goals. 10 assists. 6 primary assists.

His assists/60 with various players over the last 3 years.
Mantha - 1.29
Larkin 1.19
Tatar 1.01
Glendening .92
Nielsen .91
Vanek .90
Bertuzzi .84
Nyquist .73
Abdelkader .5
Zetterberg .42
Frk .33
Sheahan .00

For Reference, AA's Assists/60 was .75 last year and .94 the year before.
Larkin's was 1.18 last year and 1.63 the year before.
Mantha's was .80 last year and 1.1 the year before.

 

[Claypool]

I feel like he'd fetch a lot of value and a good fit for a team with a Top Centreman that doesn't have a winger.

He'd be an excellent fit with McDavid.

Whatever he'd fetch on the market likely wouldn't come close to equal his production and potential. There's literally no reason to trade him now.

 

[deca guard]

anthanasou for bouchard ?

 

[MBH]

At 25 he hasn't shown these skills. And he's not a Franzen level late bloomer, he's likely a career 50-60 guy.

Athanasiou is a constant 1.3 G/60 guy.
Whether he plays 9:01, 13:28, 15.29 or 16:58.
Whether he plays with Drew Miller or Luke Glendening or Frans Nielsen.
This is not hard to figure out.
Play him more minutes. Get more goals.

 

[Jugitsu]

He just scored 30 playing largely with Glendening or Nielsen.
If AA was playing with Larkin, with Mantha's minutes, he'd easily scored 35 if not 40 goals.
He'd never have 70 assists though.
But he could go 40-35-75 at his peak. I'm certain of it.

Is it that linear though? Playing with Larkin also means playing tougher match ups and more minutes. More minutes doesn't equal more goals and points by default.

 

[MBH]

Is it that linear though? Playing with Larkin also means playing tougher match ups and more minutes. More minutes doesn't equal more goals and points by default.

Like I said, when he was a 4th liner, getting 4th line matchups, 1.3G/60.
3rd liner? Same thing.
2nd liner, same thing.

And if you look at his career, and say, only take games where he's played 18 minutes or more, that stats are solid.
39 games 18-22-40. So bigger minutes and matchups don't stop him.

Blashill doesn't like him. My guess is Blashill would love to call up one of the kids (Zadina) and bust AA down to line 3.

The smart play might be to have AA play big first line minutes, explode to 35-40 goal pace and then move him for value before he signs a big deal.

But my hope is Blashill will be fired soon and the personality conflict won't derail his career in Detroit.

 

[Jugitsu]

Like I said, when he was a 4th liner, getting 4th line matchups, 1.3G/60.
3rd liner? Same thing.
2nd liner, same thing.

And if you look at his career, and say, only take games where he's played 18 minutes or more, that stats are solid.
39 games 18-22-40. So bigger minutes and matchups don't stop him.

Blashill doesn't like him. My guess is Blashill would love to call up one of the kids (Zadina) and bust AA down to line 3.

The smart play might be to have AA play big first line minutes, explode to 35-40 goal pace and then move him for value before he signs a big deal.

But my hope is Blashill will be fired soon and the personality conflict won't derail his career in Detroit.

Fair enough.