Andreas Athanasiou

Reddwit

Registered User
Feb 4, 2016
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Very interesting stat. How did you get it? Looking at each game log individually, or is there a site where you can quickly compile it?

Naturalstattrick. It’s a gem of a site. Probably run by someone on here.
 

Goalie guy

Registered User
Jul 8, 2011
3,063
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Taylor MI
How has he not shown anything.

Four straight games with a goal and five straight with a point. He started the year as an 18 YEAR OLD in a men’s league and will end it while only being 19. It’s already confirmed he will play in the NHL by Kenny boy this year.

What’s with the hate on Zadina. Your a red wings fans as well. Honestly, he’s further along than Bouchard, Quinn Hughes, Hayton, Wahlstrom, technically even Kravstov(he plays in the K) but there is a difference in euro hockey and NA hockey.
Again where did I say he has shown nothing? I said he has been okay? Damn people can't read, can't understand or just refuse to admit he is just doing ok, he's not lighting it up stop being blinded by what he could be and be happy with what he has done. Its really not that hard of a sentence to understand. And what the hell does him getting a call up have to do with anything? He "Kenny" also said he is getting a call up to be shown what he has to work on to make the team one day. But just leave that part out it's okay.
 
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WingsMJN2965

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Oct 13, 2017
18,106
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So he is doing better than ok? Or does he just look ok? Not a bum and not a star but ok? You started with the condescending comments not me.

Sarcasm and condescension are not the same thing. You were called out because your claim was ridiculous and then you got a bug up your butt about it and had to start making passive aggressive personal attacks.
 

Goalie guy

Registered User
Jul 8, 2011
3,063
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Taylor MI
Sarcasm and condescension are not the same thing. You were called out because your claim was ridiculous and then you got a bug up your butt about it and had to start making passive aggressive personal attacks.
Its not a claim lol, its fact! You put words in my mouth and did not like being called out on making shit up.
29 points in 43 games played -10 4th on the Griffs. Hes 20th in rookie scoring in the AHL. So that is just doing okay not good not bad . He set his bar way way to high with his comments at the draft, he will be good give him time. But I never called him a bum.
 

WingsMJN2965

Registered User
Oct 13, 2017
18,106
17,699
Its not a claim lol, its fact! You put words in my mouth and did not like being called out on making **** up.
29 points in 43 games played -10 4th on the Griffs. Hes 20th in rookie scoring in the AHL. So that is just doing okay not good not bad . He set his bar way way to high with his comments at the draft, he will be good give him time. But I never called him a bum.

Cool. How many of those rookies started at 18?
 

Passchendaele

Registered User
Dec 11, 2006
7,731
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I didn't expect much from him as a Jr. tbh. Expected another Rico Fata.

He's done well for himself. Certainly more useful than Mantha this year.
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,211
4,420
Boston, MA
The problem with those stats are they don’t actually scale. He’s not going to be a 40 goal scorer like Matthews if only he got more ice time. He also doesn’t back check at all. Even in today’s game he just watched as Patrick had a high danger scoring chance. He was ten feet away and just stood their while it all happened. So he’s a fun guy to watch when he’s not slumping or coasting, but in the end he’s a middle 6 guy.
 

TheOtherOne

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
8,265
5,257
The problem with those stats are they don’t actually scale. He’s not going to be a 40 goal scorer like Matthews if only he got more ice time. He also doesn’t back check at all. Even in today’s game he just watched as Patrick had a high danger scoring chance. He was ten feet away and just stood their while it all happened. So he’s a fun guy to watch when he’s not slumping or coasting, but in the end he’s a middle 6 guy.
I don't see why there's a "problem" with the stats. The stats are the stats.

Fact: AA has been scoring ES goals at an elite rate all year.
Fact: AA hasn't been playing with elite playmakers.

You can completely ignore the question of whether or not that "scales". It doesn't matter. It's impressive and it's valuable. If he's at his absolute peak usage right now, he's still a guy who can score like a 1st liner while playing with Luke Glendening.
 

Shaman464

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May 1, 2009
10,211
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I don't see why there's a "problem" with the stats. The stats are the stats.

Fact: AA has been scoring ES goals at an elite rate all year.
Fact: AA hasn't been playing with elite playmakers.

You can completely ignore the question of whether or not that "scales". It doesn't matter. It's impressive and it's valuable. If he's at his absolute peak usage right now, he's still a guy who can score like a 1st liner while playing with Luke Glendening.

Rate doesn't matter if it doesn't scale. Its like a guy who gets a hat trick his first game. It's cool, but it doesn't mean he's good for 246 goals in a season. Same with AA. Just because he's playing fine averaging 16 minutes a game, doesn't mean he's going to play as well with 20 minutes. Also, he's playing against lower skill competition, and is playing sheltered minutes. Imagine how good the actually elite players would be playing if they were seeing the other team's third lines and third pairings instead of their top players? And even better when nearly 60% of their zone starts are in the offensive zone. And just like others have pointed out he plays more with Nielsen, not LGD. Just like RedderWing (who I suspect is TG2V), posting stats without context makes them useless. He's the best third liner on the wings, that's great. Doesn't mean he's elite.
 

TheOtherOne

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Jan 2, 2010
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Rate doesn't matter if it doesn't scale. Its like a guy who gets a hat trick his first game. It's cool, but it doesn't mean he's good for 246 goals in a season. Same with AA. Just because he's playing fine averaging 16 minutes a game, doesn't mean he's going to play as well with 20 minutes. Also, he's playing against lower skill competition, and is playing sheltered minutes. Imagine how good the actually elite players would be playing if they were seeing the other team's third lines and third pairings instead of their top players? And even better when nearly 60% of their zone starts are in the offensive zone. And just like others have pointed out he plays more with Nielsen, not LGD. Just like RedderWing (who I suspect is TG2V), posting stats without context makes them useless. He's the best third liner on the wings, that's great. Doesn't mean he's elite.
Okay cute paragraph you typed up but if you go back and read the very first line of the thread...
"18: Only 20 players in the NHL have more ES goals than him. (0 EN goals)"

Nobody is talking about a first-game hat trick here. I've clearly laid out the fact that his scoring rate all year long has led to 18 ES goals.

Don't talk about context if you're going to ignore all the context I've already posted.
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,211
4,420
Boston, MA
Okay cute paragraph you typed up but if you go back and read the very first line of the thread...
"18: Only 20 players in the NHL have more ES goals than him. (0 EN goals)"

Nobody is talking about a first-game hat trick here. I've clearly laid out the fact that his scoring rate all year long has led to 18 ES goals.

Don't talk about context if you're going to ignore all the context I've already posted.

That's one stat, which is great, but, now you should look at rates. He gets a minute less PP time compared to top players in the league per game. The Wings also tied for 26th in PP opportunities. This means for the most part, as a function of aTOI a lot of those players likely spend more of their time on the power play on average, that means they are more likely to score more of their goals on those PP opportunities. And some of them also average more than 20 seconds a game PK time which also shortens the number of minutes they play at ES. Again, your numbers assume a ton of things, very few of which are true , and without that context they are meaningless. Also you never addressed differences in quality of competition and the fact he has nearly a 60% O-zone start rate.

In the end, you're cherry picking stats. He's not that good. He's a decent middle 6 forward, who excels against lower quality competition and with very sheltered minutes.
 
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TheOtherOne

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
8,265
5,257
Look.

I obviously did not post ALL of the context. To post ALL of the context, you would need to write a book, and nobody would read it. This is just a discussion thread.

I encourage you and everyone to add context. Like ES time of elite players, for example. It is always useful to add and discuss more context. Like the fact that his 14:08 even strength time per game is good for #117 out of 432 forwards.

All that said, it is frankly ridiculous that you can look at the goalscoring stats I shared and conclude "he's not that good" and "decent middle 6 forward". You don't have to love the guy but come on.

Again, your numbers assume a ton of things, very few of which are true , and without that context they are meaningless.

"My numbers" don't assume jack shit. My numbers are simply facts. They are exactly what they are.
 

drewjenks

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
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Canada
18: Only 20 players in the NHL have more ES goals than him. (0 EN goals)
1.41: 32 players in the NHL have more goals per 60 than him. (only 2 PP goals)
16:19: He's #150/427 forwards in TOI/game (>20 games)
14.04%: He most commonly plays with Luke Glendening and Darren Helm, who have 11 and 8 assists, respectively. (Line Combinations - Frozen Tools)
0: +/- 0 good for #8 on DRW.
13.1%: shooting % good for #135/646 (in case you're worried about sustainability)
16: 52 NHLers have drawn more penalties than him.

Those are the facts I managed to dig up on this season. This is a guy who a lot of Red Wings fans recently wanted to give up on in exchange for a pick. A guy with an alleged history of motivation issues.

What do fans around the NHL think about this guy?

I think he's the second best Andreas in the Atlantic Division.
Don't make me Johnsson (yawn son).
 

TheOtherOne

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
8,265
5,257
This post is not related to any argument or reply, it's just a thing I want to add for anyone who may be interested.

We probably all know that he's not doing great in assists: 10 assists makes him #8 on DRW.
However, if you look at only FIRST assists, he is tied for 3rd on the team with 8. Nyquist and Larkin have 12 and 13.
Of course this is not great, but considering that his linemates are not the type to do much scoring on their own (generating accidental 2nd assists), it does seem encouraging that his 1st assist numbers aren't horrible. I wonder, ignoring everything else for a moment, how many 2nd assists he would have playing with 1st liners.

Don't read too much into this, I'm just making observations.
 

TheOtherOne

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
8,265
5,257
But they are cherry picked.
I mean...

What does this even mean? Why in the world do people love posting this so much?

Yes, you're right. All numbers are cherry picked. Unless you post the entire contents of nhl.com, whatever part you post is cherry picked. Is that a problem? The numbers are still the numbers. They are not a lie.

As I've said before, if you'd like to include additional context, I encourage it.
 
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Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,211
4,420
Boston, MA
Look.

I obviously did not post ALL of the context. To post ALL of the context, you would need to write a book, and nobody would read it. This is just a discussion thread.

I encourage you and everyone to add context. Like ES time of elite players, for example. It is always useful to add and discuss more context. Like the fact that his 14:08 even strength time per game is good for #117 out of 432 forwards.

All that said, it is frankly ridiculous that you can look at the goalscoring stats I shared and conclude "he's not that good" and "decent middle 6 forward". You don't have to love the guy but come on.



"My numbers" don't assume jack ****. My numbers are simply facts. They are exactly what they are.

Because quality of competition and zone starts matter. Matthews scoring 40 goals against the top players in the league is different than AA scoring 20ish against third pairing defensemen. Especially when players like Matthews might be playing 25% more minutes. So they are getting 100% more output, with 25% more ice time, playing against much better players, and not mainly starting in the o-zone. That adds a lot of context. If he were playing against top defenders, getting even zone starts, and was had about 25-45% more output, it would be something, but, the mitigating factors overshadow things.
 

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