Player Discussion Andre Burakovsky

Will Burakovsky be a Capital in 2019-2020?


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Ridley Simon

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
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That's at least half of this board who'd say that these days.

Again. Making. Things. Up. I was questioning the certainty with which some were saying that trade is FOR SURE a good. Don't you get what is for sure? They could have won more, they could have won less. Nobody knows that for real. Literally nobody. Some posters were acting like they know for certain. What is there to explain? Are we even talking English at this point? I doubt that with how this discussion goes.

upload_2019-1-28_20-24-59.jpeg
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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The Caps prioritized Wilson over Forsberg. That appears to be playing out well. Forsberg as a Cap would not have had the growth opportunity with the already established lineup as he had in Nashville where they lacked offensive firepower. Oshie was probably a better fit for that level of role. All of that can be true. Forsberg for Erat is as bad as Steve Eminger for John Carlson. No matter how you cut it.

I’ll say this, the whole “he wouldn’t develop here” Schtick is overplayed by the side saying “who cares, we won the Cup” (and I’m on that side). FF clearly has the talent and that would not have been stifled for long in DC even if he hadn’t been moved. Every time I read that line of thinking posted (and it happens a lot), I cringe. I have a feeling it infuriates the other side of this debate because even to me it seems a tad disingenuous.

The trickle down impact of the Oshie move and everything else I agree with.

Also on the Carlson deal, Caps just made the right draft selection. Last time the Flyers traded us a 1st it turned into crap. Flyers obviously didn’t move Carlson for Steve-o.
 

philip

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Jun 27, 2014
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Anyone interested in swapping him for a rental? A bottom 6 who can win faceoffs, PK and contribute? A Brian Boyle maybe?
 
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twabby

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Mar 9, 2010
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Anyone interested in swapping him for a rental? A bottom 6 who can win faceoffs, PK and contribute? A Brian Boyle maybe?

Nope. Boyle is a career 50.2% FO guy, Dowd is 49.0%. Losing 1 more faceoff every 80 draws is close to meaningless.

The problem with the PK isn't the personnel, it's some poor luck combined with a few tactical changes that need to be made.

If they are going to trade for someone then make it someone who will actually add value. Either a middle six winger or a defenseman who can play top 4 minutes if need be.

Adding someone like Boyle is just adding a guy to add a guy. They have plenty of 4th liners as it stands.
 
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txpd

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Jan 25, 2003
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I’ll say this, the whole “he wouldn’t develop here” Schtick is overplayed by the side saying “who cares, we won the Cup” (and I’m on that side). FF clearly has the talent and that would not have been stifled for long in DC even if he hadn’t been moved..

Orlov. In a pp system where a left handed shot fits in, Orlov would be a different player. Forsberg plays the Ov office in Nashville. That's taken here. The Caps might have chosen to use Forsberg in the slot shooting hole rather than get Oshie, but that isn't Forsberg's game.

Do you realistically see an all start developing from Vrana given what his assignment opportunities can be?

Forsberg shows up in Smashville and is on the 1st pp from the start. I can see him becoming a successful player but not what he has become in Nashville
 

txpd

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Jan 25, 2003
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Nope. Boyle is a career 50.2% FO guy, Dowd is 49.0%. Losing 1 more faceoff every 80 draws is close to meaningless.

The problem with the PK isn't the personnel, it's some poor luck combined with a few tactical changes that need to be made.

Just guessing. Are you saying that winning face offs on the penalty kill and in defensive situations is overrated? The Caps are an awful face off team. They are dead last in the league. last season they were 7th.

The Caps were 4th in DZ FO% last season. 28th this

This season the Caps primary dz faceoff takers are Eller and Backstrom. They are both below 50%, Last season Beagle was 59.3. In the playoffs Beagle was 63.5 in the dz. Its an issue
 
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RandyHolt

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Too lazy alert... what were our faceoff numbers in our 16 playoff wins?

Backstrom had a sausage finger. Kuz had 1 shoulder. Eller is never plus fiddy. No offense but I don't think Beagle was the key to our cup... just a great supporting player.

How'd we do it? I'd say dominant physical play trumped any faceoff advantage, or disadvantage. We may lose that O zone faceoff, but their D men runs risk of getting pounded.

I even question"wins" not to mention the crooked linesman, and coin flip who won scrums immediately after a drop. A win is a win in the D zone but the puck goes the wrong way, and that Dman that gets the puck, better be good.
 
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Ridley Simon

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Feb 27, 2002
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Just guessing. Are you saying that winning face offs on the penalty kill and in defensive situations is overrated? The Caps are an awful face off team. They are dead last in the league. last season they were 7th.

The Caps were 4th in DZ FO% last season. 28th this

This season the Caps primary dz faceoff takers are Eller and Backstrom. They are both below 50%, Last season Beagle was 59.3. In the playoffs Beagle was 63.5 in the dz. Its an issue

So.....free Beagle??!!!??!!

3m for 3 more years? Uhhhhh
 
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CapitalsCupReality

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Orlov. In a pp system where a left handed shot fits in, Orlov would be a different player. Forsberg plays the Ov office in Nashville. That's taken here. The Caps might have chosen to use Forsberg in the slot shooting hole rather than get Oshie, but that isn't Forsberg's game.

Do you realistically see an all start developing from Vrana given what his assignment opportunities can be?

Forsberg shows up in Smashville and is on the 1st pp from the start. I can see him becoming a successful player but not what he has become in Nashville

I think your view is one Caps fans want to believe. Makes the loss easier to swallow.

Cream rises to the top.
 
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txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
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I think your view is one Caps fans want to believe. Makes the loss easier to swallow.

Cream rises to the top.

When Joe Gibbs came to the Redskins and John Riggins returned. The offense was designed to throw the ball. When they ran it was outside with Joe Washington and Riggins was a blocking back. His cream only rose to the top when they designed an offense around him and gave him the ball 30 times a game.

If you think that he scores 30 goals a season with the Capitals playing on the 2nd pp unit and not being in the group the Caps ice in primary offensive situations, that's up to you. Lets not call me delusional for having a different opinion.

I can see where Burakovsky had an opportunity to do something like that. Might be Vrana can do that. Might be that Forsberg is better and would have. That doesn't escape the reality that Forsberg when able to play is Nashville's go to guy. Even if he came to the Capitals now, he would be 5th or 6th on the forward go to depth chart.
 
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maacoshark

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Too lazy alert... what were our faceoff numbers in our 16 playoff wins?

Backstrom had a sausage finger. Kuz had 1 shoulder. Eller is never plus fiddy. No offense but I don't think Beagle was the key to our cup... just a great supporting player.

How'd we do it? I'd say dominant physical play trumped any faceoff advantage, or disadvantage. We may lose that O zone faceoff, but their D men runs risk of getting pounded.

I even question"wins" not to mention the crooked linesman, and coin flip who won scrums immediately after a drop. A win is a win in the D zone but the puck goes the wrong way, and that Dman that gets the puck, better be good.
You are underrating the importance of face offs, especially in the defensive zone. It us killing us this year. Too many times our opponent wins the draw cleanly in our defensive zone and get sustained pressure as a direct result. Quite often it has lead to a goal against. Whether it has been 5 on 5 or on the pk.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
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When Joe Gibbs came to the Redskins and John Riggins returned. The offense was designed to throw the ball. When they ran it was outside with Joe Washington and Riggins was a blocking back. His cream only rose to the top when they designed an offense around him and gave him the ball 30 times a game.

If you think that he scores 30 goals a season with the Capitals playing on the 2nd pp unit and not being in the group the Caps ice in primary offensive situations, that's up to you. Lets not call me delusional for having a different opinion.

I can see where Burakovsky had an opportunity to do something like that. Might be Vrana can do that. Might be that Forsberg is better and would have. That doesn't escape the reality that Forsberg when able to play is Nashville's go to guy. Even if he came to the Capitals now, he would be 5th or 6th on the forward go to depth chart.

I’m not predicting his hypothetical production. That’s a silly game to try and play. I’m saying he would have developed into the fine offensive forward he is, in DC or not. And he might start as the 6th forward but he would rise in the ranks quickly given how some are performing today.
 

RandyHolt

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You are underrating the importance of face offs, especially in the defensive zone. It us killing us this year. Too many times our opponent wins the draw cleanly in our defensive zone and get sustained pressure as a direct result. Quite often it has lead to a goal against. Whether it has been 5 on 5 or on the pk.

Want some outside the box thinking?

Losing draws is the best medicine for a lazy team. Or a team with young dmen that need to learn feet to the fire. Or a young goalie that needs volume to learn. Maybe there is a return on investment there, besides the easy life that winning every single faceoff would afford. Losing draws gets the fat asses moving and into shape.

Studies have been done on the paltry expected goal differential from a strong faceoff guy to an average one. I am going to assume you do not believe the study is accurate. It's why Beagle doesn't have 30 goals every year. I think part of the study may reflect that those best at faceoffs are D first guys that can't score.

Teams may like to trap and counter. Their offense is based on not having the puck. Losing a draw can play right into that.
 
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txpd

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I’m not predicting his hypothetical production. That’s a silly game to try and play. I’m saying he would have developed into the fine offensive forward he is, in DC or not. And he might start as the 6th forward but he would rise in the ranks quickly given how some are performing today.

1. I never said he wouldn't be a fine offensive forward. I think I said exactly that in my last post. I am saying that he isn't an all star playing for the Capitals.

2. Rise quickly? He would have been Burakovsky. He would have been better than Burakovsky. Who has been, and by that I mean over the last few seasons that he would be replacing?
 

Ridley Simon

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Feb 27, 2002
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Marin County — SF Bay Area, CA
1. I never said he wouldn't be a fine offensive forward. I think I said exactly that in my last post. I am saying that he isn't an all star playing for the Capitals.

2. Rise quickly? He would have been Burakovsky. He would have been better than Burakovsky. Who has been, and by that I mean over the last few seasons that he would be replacing?

You got all of this simply because he wouldn’t have been in Ovy’s spot on PP1?

Can’t say I agree with you on this, Tex. He’d have gotten a lot of top 6F time. Either with Backstrom or with Kuznetsov. He’d have been terrific w them, and could easily have surpassed Oshie’s totals.

30 goals? I think he could have easily managed that.

But I mean, who knows? It is getting old thinking about him.
 
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txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
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New Bern, NC
You got all of this simply because he wouldn’t have been in Ovy’s spot on PP1?

Can’t say I agree with you on this, Tex. He’d have gotten a lot of top 6F time. Either with Backstrom or with Kuznetsov. He’d have been terrific w them, and could easily have surpassed Oshie’s totals.

30 goals? I think he could have easily managed that.

But I mean, who knows? It is getting old thinking about him.

No. I am saying there isn't a place for him at all on pp1. Do you see him as the banger in the slot who's second job is the physical battle of puck retrieval? To use Forberg at what he does well, they would have to redesign the power play for him.

Sure...who knows. I don't lose sleep over it. I am sure that if they kept him, that they would not have gotten Oshie. I think Oshie was a main reason they won the cup and provides a skill package that isn't replaced by anyone else they have.

I say Ted Williams was better than DiMaggio and that's not popular either
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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1. I never said he wouldn't be a fine offensive forward. I think I said exactly that in my last post. I am saying that he isn't an all star playing for the Capitals.

2. Rise quickly? He would have been Burakovsky. He would have been better than Burakovsky. Who has been, and by that I mean over the last few seasons that he would be replacing?

If he has all star talent, he would be an all star here eventually surrounded by fantastic talent.

I don't care who he would replace, but it would be someone.
 
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maacoshark

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Jul 22, 2017
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Want some outside the box thinking?

Losing draws is the best medicine for a lazy team. Or a team with young dmen that need to learn feet to the fire. Or a young goalie that needs volume to learn. Maybe there is a return on investment there, besides the easy life that winning every single faceoff would afford. Losing draws gets the fat asses moving and into shape.

Studies have been done on the paltry expected goal differential from a strong faceoff guy to an average one. I am going to assume you do not believe the study is accurate. It's why Beagle doesn't have 30 goals every year. I think part of the study may reflect that those best at faceoffs are D first guys that can't score.

Teams may like to trap and counter. Their offense is based on not having the puck. Losing a draw can play right into that.
Lmao. You think winning faceoffs is related to offense. It obviously lead to some offense but defensive zone faceoffs are a lot more important.
Here is a question for you. How is winning faceoffs related to goal scoring for the guy winning the faceoff? Sure some goals are created directly from a faceoff win but the majority of those goals the guy winning the faceoff would get an assist more often than he would score.
 

g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
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Dreger was asked why the Capitals wanted to move on from Burakovsky.

“It’s as much about the player wanting a better opportunity,” noted the Insider. “I don’t know that he’s come out and officially asked for a trade. I think that there was just an acknowledgement at the start of the season that Burakovsky felt like he could do more, he wanted to do more, and he wanted a more significant role.

“Maybe the belief was that Barry Trotz didn’t see him in that way and Todd Reirden might, but obviously Todd Reirden doesn’t. So I think that there’s a bit of a disconnect there between player and coach. And that happens. It happens all the time with a lot of teams around the National Hockey League.

“So I think this is more about the player wanting a better fit and opportunity.”

h78C9CFF3
 

RandyHolt

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Nov 3, 2006
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Lmao. You think winning faceoffs is related to offense. It obviously lead to some offense .....

:huh:

A center pulling 52% vs one at 48% amounts to just 1 additional win every 25 faceoffs. I'd guess the average number of faceoffs in a game is 60. So that one low skill center will win just 1 additional per game, if that. Good luck hoping that 1 additional win per game results in a goal.

Even you will admit, most goals are not even directly traceable to a single faceoff win. And don't forget goals that were scored by the FO losing team technically needing to be subtracted out. The math is getting fuzzy. The answer is net +3 goals per year.

In the modern game, its up and down up and down skate fests with nary a whistle. The events leading up to many goals are chaotic and completely unpredictable and often result from soft goalie play, sheer star power, a turnover, or bogus penalty call. Faceoffs have never been less a factor with virtually non stop play, including at the ends of games where repeated icing is all but a thing of the past.
 
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g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
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Let's just unpack that a bit more. Burakovsky, who has seen significant time in the top 6 for a perpetually successful Cup champion team and done little more than jack shit with it, wants a better opportunity somewhere else.

LOL

So what does that mean, really? That he wants to be the main goal threat on another team, without some of the most prolific scorers and passers in the league to pad his mediocre stats? He's going to go out there and carry the mail every night instead of cherrypicking scraps from 2nd and 3rd pairings/lines?

It's time to move on if that's his takeaway from the last several years. To me this confirms what I said earlier about not really taking coaching to heart, other than maybe his father's.
 
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