Player Discussion Andre Burakovsky

[Melkor]

But it would be trading the Cup for Forsberg. You don’t seem to get that. If you reversed the Forsberg trade, you eliminate the history that followed, ergo, the Cup. Don’t you get that? You can’t undo the FF trade without also undoing the Cup win.

Speaking of making things up....no one said that the Forsberg trade was good. No one. Find one person (Caps fan) that liked and are happy that trade happened. You won’t find a single Caps fan that will say “thank god that trade happened!!! It was dynamite for the Caps!!” No one.

All people are saying that the FF grade set off a chain of events that worked out for the team, as we won a Cup. I mean, that’s what happened. Those are the facts. So I think many people are ok with how it all ended up.....even if the FF trade was a disaster for the franchise.

That's at least half of this board who'd say that these days.

Again. Making. Things. Up. I was questioning the certainty with which some were saying that trade is FOR SURE a good. Don't you get what is for sure? They could have won more, they could have won less. Nobody knows that for real. Literally nobody. Some posters were acting like they know for certain. What is there to explain? Are we even talking English at this point? I doubt that with how this discussion goes.

 

[francaisvolantsparis]

But it would be trading the Cup for Forsberg. You don’t seem to get that. If you reversed the Forsberg trade, you eliminate the history that followed, ergo, the Cup. Don’t you get that? You can’t undo the FF trade without also undoing the Cup win.

Speaking of making things up....no one said that the Forsberg trade was good. No one. Find one person (Caps fan) that liked and are happy that trade happened. You won’t find a single Caps fan that will say “thank god that trade happened!!! It was dynamite for the Caps!!” No one.

All people are saying that the FF grade set off a chain of events that worked out for the team, as we won a Cup. I mean, that’s what happened. Those are the facts. So I think many people are ok with how it all ended up.....even if the FF trade was a disaster for the franchise.

If I have to choose between two options:

A) Caps are SC Champions in 2035 and nothing (no finals, no semis) in 2019-2034 period;
B) Caps will win 5 Stanley Cups with 50% chance and with other 50% will have nothing (only finals, but no cup) in next 15 years.

What should I take ?

 

[Ridley Simon]

That's at least half of this board who'd say that these days.

Again. Making. Things. Up. I was questioning the certainty with which some were saying that trade is FOR SURE a good. Don't you get what is for sure? They could have won more, they could have won less. Nobody knows that for real. Literally nobody. Some posters were acting like they know for certain. What is there to explain? Are we even talking English at this point? I doubt that with how this discussion goes.

Holy S*it. Go find a post — any post — where someone is happy with the FF trade. I won’t even hold you to “half of this board”, let’s just settle for ONE SINGLE POST. I will wait.

Its also laughable that within a single breath of making that comment, you then accuse me of making things up. That’s literally laugh out loud.

 

[Ridley Simon]

If I have to choose between two options:

A) Caps are SC Champions in 2035 and nothing (no finals, no semis) in 2019-2034 period;
B) Caps will win 5 Stanly Cups with 50% chance and with other 50% will have nothing (only finals, but no cup) in next 15 years.

What should I take ?

Well, coin flips are 50% each time. But the odds say that if you flip a coin 10 times, it will end up 5 heads/5 tails. Even though each time is its own, new, entity. You also know that due to the ways odds work and that eventually things will migrate towards 50/50, then it makes sense to bet that a streak will be followed by an opposite streak. That’s how is usually works.

If are you saying that each year is a 50/50 proposition (well, 5 years would be of the 15), or that you have a 50/50 shot at 5 Cups or no Cups?

15 years is a long time. I think most people would take the chances for 5.

I would think the better example would be using 5 years (which is the length since the Forsberg trade).

Do you take one guaranteed Cup (with a chance at a 2nd one, this season) in those 5 years (along with 2 other season of best RS finish)

— or —

Do you take 5 years where you don’t know what will happen. They could win multiple cups, or they could win nothing.

I take the first 5 years. But that’s me.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

May be shorter than expected. At our actual pace we will have less than 95 points after 82 games and a good chance to not make the playoffs.

Finally some excitement.

 

[Calicaps]

THIS IS THE BURAKOVSKY THREAD! NO MORE ELLER HERE. NO MORE PERSONAL INSULTS/BAITING.

 

[Roshi]

Like calicapsfan silently suggested, this is Burakovsky thread, but still i want to look at the Forsberg trade as its speaken here for some reason

I see it as, if we never trade FF away, we also never acquire Oshie. These guys are actually interestingly close on production since 15/16.

Forsberg 266 gp 108+107=215, playoffs 49 gp 18+18=36
Oshie 261 gp 92+90=182, playoffs 49 gp 18+25=43

Its not that simple of course, we might get Oshie anyways, but atleast we cant resign them both. If we have both, do we win 16/17? Williams is atleast out of that team.

If it comes to who would have helped more for getting us the Cup, i take Oshie. You see his impact on the team. Asking the players he was the first one to be signed back 17/18 off season. Forsberg has a little more raw totals, but they are different style of players and Oshies one of biggest advantages is screening and making room for Ovie/JC on the PP. If we had Forsberg instead our PP would look very different. Of course going forward from here Forsberg is on his prime and maybe getting even better while Oshie is going to go to inevitable decline (concussions might make it faster than lightning), but just looking back the few past years Oshie has been big part of who we are and why we finally got it done. It all went just the right way, even if it started with the franchises (one of the) worst decisions.

And back to the topic. I just see no way to work it out with Burakovsky. He is either traded this TDL for whatever return BM can get out of him, or he walks out when we dont QO him. Even if he streaks again for couple games in playoffs, we cant get ourselves into that trap again. We dont have the luxury to pay 3,25 m for streaky and slumping in and out third liner, and the way things are set up theres just no way he turns it around fast enough here. Its going to circle around year after year, he is still not going to get PP time or second line if he doesnt take that step and he isnt taking that step from where he is now. He is the kind of player who can still break out and find his feet, but its not happening here. Unless for some reason he signs back with a cheaper contract after not qualifying him, but it would also not be smart on his side. He must feel somewhat choked here.

I get 'not trading' him for the team standpoint. If you are not getting better or atleast same level guy back, why do it while trying to win now? Can we risk the chance where he scores two goals in ECF again for getting basicly nothing in return? But I think we sort of owe it to Bura too. The sooner you trade him, the more time he has to show enough to be QO'd by another team that has the role and money to fit the paycheck. And it might be Barber is ready for the shot, maybe Gersich too.

 

[searle]

I'd be ok with trading Bura for 2nd and 3rd/4th/5th if that's what we're able to get (2 of the latter are likely more realistic at this point) and, as others have suggested, let a couple of the kids take a run at 3LW.

 

[crazy8888]

I'd be ok with trading Bura for 2nd and 3rd/4th/5th if that's what we're able to get (2 of the latter are likely more realistic at this point) and, as others have suggested, let a couple of the kids take a run at 3LW.

This plan would have been great if Caps were rebuilding. However this does nothing to help their chance at repeating. Only trade Bura if something better is coming back in return that can help this year. If not then keep him and the chemistry of the team together. Burt only needs to score one important goal in the playoffs to make his presence on the team worth it

 

[Sam Spade]

This plan would have been great if Caps were rebuilding. However this does nothing to help their chance at repeating. Only trade Bura if something better is coming back in return that can help this year. If not then keep him and the chemistry of the team together. Burt only needs to score one important goal in the playoffs to make his presence on the team worth it

Gersich is a puck hound and goes into the corners hard, we lack that. Barber can score and I would bet money if he had been given Burakovsky's ice time and lines this season he would have more than 12 points.

The infusion of hungry players is what wins Cups and Burakovsky is the farthest thing from that type of player that exists. I would rather have Jaskin or Boyd or Dowd in over "I'm afraid to get hit" Burka any day of the week.

 

[searle]

This plan would have been great if Caps were rebuilding. However this does nothing to help their chance at repeating. Only trade Bura if something better is coming back in return that can help this year. If not then keep him and the chemistry of the team together. Burt only needs to score one important goal in the playoffs to make his presence on the team worth it

My mindset is check if you have an internal solutions; if you do, great! Save the assets; if you don't - ok, use the assets to look elsewhere.

There's a month(?) Until the trade deadline, early deal can help you establish where you're at with a better understanding of your farm team

 

[searle]

Badly written post - office has a fire drill and out in the cold writing on my phone, hopefully you get my point

 

[crazy8888]

My mindset is check if you have an internal solutions; if you do, great! Save the assets; if you don't - ok, use the assets to look elsewhere.

There's a month(?) Until the trade deadline, early deal can help you establish where you're at with a better understanding of your farm team

I definitely get your point, i just think that there is too much at stake here to just say lets give our young players a chance and lets see what happens. With the veterans on this team aging, there is a good chance that there are only a few years left of true cup window, and after that who knows it could be another 10 years of basement dwelling before they even have a chance to compete again. You have a SC winning roster together, the mission should be to add right now to help the team win right now. This is not the time to throw s**t at the wall and hope it sticks

 

[Ridley Simon]

I definitely get your point, i just think that there is too much at stake here to just say lets give our young players a chance and lets see what happens. With the veterans on this team aging, there is a good chance that there are only a few years left of true cup window, and after that who knows it could be another 10 years of basement dwelling before they even have a chance to compete again. You have a SC winning roster together, the mission should be to add right now to help the team win right now. This is not the time to throw s**t at the wall and hope it sticks

I dont think anyone is advocating going into the playoffs with this roster minus Burakovsky (so an open 3m sal slot). I think the point is to sell on Bura now (collecting futures), give the team another month with internal replacements to "see what they have", and then add something at the deadline that the team needs, by using the 3m slot.

So its really 2 moves, not 1. If GMBM is holding out for a direct trade of salaries for Bura, he may be severely limiting what he can add to the team. Smart thing is to simply get the best return you can for Bura....ASAP....and then add what you need via another deal. Gives a lot more room to maneuver and add the best piece for THIS team.

Again...just IMO

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Not sure the “smart thing” is to dump Bura ASAP. There’s no compelling (enough) reason to dump him immediately for whatever you can get. I don’t see some massive acquisition coming that will require a bunch of banked cap room. I’d love to be wrong on that lol...

I trust GMBM is scouring the market and once he gets a sell offer on Burt he can swallow and/or a buy offer on a roster add, only then will he be compelled to pull the trigger.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Not sure the “smart thing” is to dump Bura ASAP. There’s no compelling (enough) reason to dump him immediately for whatever you can get. I don’t see some massive acquisition coming that will require a bunch of banked cap room. I’d love to be wrong on that lol...

I trust GMBM is scouring the market and once he gets a sell offer on Burt he can swallow and/or a buy offer on a roster add, only then will he be compelled to pull the trigger.

I guess I needed to put more of my commentary into context. IF the team is looking to move on from Burakovsky, THEN the smart thing would be to move him ASAP to have more time to replace his salary slot. I dont see them having a lot of choices if they want to deal him directly to whomever they are targeting to add at the deadline.

Say its Detroit and they want Andreas Athanasiou and Nick Jensen (or Thomas Vanek, or....you get my drift). Detroit may have zero interest in Burakovsky. If Detroit is ready to deal its players now, we would have to wait and off load Burakovsky beforehand. Which may force a poor deal for Bura, or may create a situation where we miss the deal.

I think Bura's time here is done. I think there are a lot of players that could fit into his salary slot than could help us more than he has. In order to maximize those mindsets....the sooner Burakovsky is gone, the better.

If you follow me

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

That's just it, I don't think they're necessarily looking to move on from Burt (I think many fans are). I think they're looking to improve their team in one of many roster spots. His up and down struggles, salary/rights status, and 1st round pedigree just make him a bigger target.

I could see them just not qualify him and try for an extension at less $ on a short term deal if there are no takers at a decent return.

 

[txpd]

That's at least half of this board who'd say that these days.
.

Are we talking about the Forsberg trade? Who says that trade was a good trade?

 

[Raikkonen]

Moving Bura should be only a part of the plan.

Like, getting some picks for Bura and then flipping Bowey and picks for solid middle-6 forward (not Mojo who should be like plan D for peanuts).

In the end that should give us solid forward for Bowey and substract Bura's empty jersey. Something like that.

That is kinda easy. Caps have logjam at D. And lack of F. Get some F with potential, pay with surplus resources.

 

[maacoshark]

I guess I needed to put more of my commentary into context. IF the team is looking to move on from Burakovsky, THEN the smart thing would be to move him ASAP to have more time to replace his salary slot. I dont see them having a lot of choices if they want to deal him directly to whomever they are targeting to add at the deadline.

Say its Detroit and they want Andreas Athanasiou and Nick Jensen (or Thomas Vanek, or....you get my drift). Detroit may have zero interest in Burakovsky. If Detroit is ready to deal its players now, we would have to wait and off load Burakovsky beforehand. Which may force a poor deal for Bura, or may create a situation where we miss the deal.

I think Bura's time here is done. I think there are a lot of players that could fit into his salary slot than could help us more than he has. In order to maximize those mindsets....the sooner Burakovsky is gone, the better.

If you follow me

I agree with you on this. Not sure if we will get what we are looking for.

 

[Calicaps]

Are we talking about the Forsberg trade? Who says that trade was a good trade?

What people have said is that they don't care anymore because of the Cup. He's turning that into "it's a good trade". Pure shenanigans.

 

[txpd]

What people have said is that they don't care anymore because of the Cup. He's turning that into "it's a good trade". Pure shenanigans.

The Caps prioritized Wilson over Forsberg. That appears to be playing out well. Forsberg as a Cap would not have had the growth opportunity with the already established lineup as he had in Nashville where they lacked offensive firepower. Oshie was probably a better fit for that level of role. All of that can be true. Forsberg for Erat is as bad as Steve Eminger for John Carlson. No matter how you cut it.

 

[Calicaps]

The Caps prioritized Wilson over Forsberg. That appears to be playing out well. Forsberg as a Cap would not have had the growth opportunity with the already established lineup as he had in Nashville where they lacked offensive firepower. Oshie was probably a better fit for that level of role. All of that can be true. Forsberg for Erat is as bad as Steve Eminger for John Carlson. No matter how you cut it.

Exactly. The trade itself was criminally bad in terms of the players exchanged, but it's long-term consequences for the franchise turned out out to be minimal.

 

[txpd]

Exactly. The trade itself was criminally bad in terms of the players exchanged, but it's long-term consequences for the franchise turned out out to be minimal.

It was bad. Carlson meanwhile was a gift of similar proportions. Ups and downs. Its not the doom that was predicted....except maybe for the Flyers

 

[peterthegreat12]

Exactly. The trade itself was criminally bad in terms of the players exchanged, but it's long-term consequences for the franchise turned out out to be minimal.

They won a cup. Doesn’t get any better than that.