Confirmed with Link: André Tourigny named next Head Coach (presser @11AM Thursday)

[Coyotedroppings]

While I understand that point I think there is still more to get out of this team. Too often we were taking nights off. A lot of the team is still young.

Tourigny seems like hard ass, demanding a lot out of his players. He's been described as culture builder and I think there's a lot of work to do with our culture. I think he'll set the expectation and there will be consequences if we take a night off. Like we saw in games against the Avs. Or even the Kings when we were in the playoff hunt. They are pros and should be at their best but at times it looks like some are content with collecting a cheque.

Those situations boil down to mix of players and systems implemented, imo. Hard ass won't cut it these days, I do like his "one rule" philosophy though.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

While I understand that point I think there is still more to get out of this team. Too often we were taking nights off. A lot of the team is still young.

I think what BA liked about Tourigny, and how he can help us, is his sense of team culture. Tocchet is a players' guy, but that doesn't mean he was able to create a good team culture, either in Tampa Bay or here. There's a difference between being a guy players like and being a guy who can make you want to fight for him. I never did get the sense that the Coyotes ever wanted to fight for Rick Tocchet, much less themselves - particularly in the past couple of seasons.

Tourigny seems like a guy who can manage disparate factions in a dressing room and get them all rowing in the same direction. In other words, create a sense of team cohesion. We haven't had that since, I dunno, 2012.

 

[BUX7PHX]

The more successful people you have in your organization the better chance of success you have.

Meh. Gretzky was a success on ice, but from a coaching perspective, not so much. Hitchcock was a much better coach than he ever was a player.

Plenty of bad players have won Cups, and plenty of good players got few chances.

The truth is that a collective group needs to find that piece to rally around. The 09-10 team never had a ton of overly successful players, but they rallied around an actual system from Tippett and being the team that was the question of whether or not hockey can survive.

I think that you should say, "the more motivated people you have in your organization, the greater chance of success." Hopefully Tourigny is that person to increase the motivation amongst players.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Overcooking a kid is fine when selected later in the draft, because they need time to develop. Kids that are high end talent selected in the high first round can jump right in. Depends on the kid, but not all need years of seasoning in the minors.

Even 1st rounders can take time to develop. Sometimes, it may not be a physical thing or a skill thing. If they are immature and struggle to be in the room, then that is as good a reason as any to not have that player in the NHL early. A player who doesn't know how to accept responsibility and blame others will fracture a locker room.

 

[Hogan20]

Even 1st rounders can take time to develop. Sometimes, it may not be a physical thing or a skill thing. If they are immature and struggle to be in the room, then that is as good a reason as any to not have that player in the NHL early. A player who doesn't know how to accept responsibility and blame others will fracture a locker room.

Soderstrom still doesn't have a full year of experience on American ice surfaces.

Played his post draft year in Sweden and then came over this past year, where COVID shortened the season and made a mess of it. Having him play 22/23 minutes a night in all situations in American rinks wouldn't be the worst idea for his development.

That being said, he'll still be on the short list of candidates for a full time role in the NHL unless BA goes wild with UFA D signings. I would imagine he comes into camp, impresses the team but they send him down for the first twenty games or so to get used to playing in every situation. I think he'll be in the everyday lineup by American Thanksgiving.



Anyway, I really like the hire. I think this is the kind of thing that could get the young guys going.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

The hard ass thing only works to a point in the nhl. The good thing is that Tourigny knows that. He’s been a coach in the NHL. He was on Roy’s staff when he won a Jack Adams. And he was on Roy’s staff when he imploded. Tourigny is observant and has a passion for learning. Patrick Roy already learned some hard lessons for him, that he now doesn’t hve to.

Yah I think he'll be able to adapt. And I meant hard ass in a good way. Players will need to play how he wants or else. And it's to do with effort level in order to win. I think Fischer and Crouse could take their games to the next level with him. They'll need to play hard every night.

I also think we could see a fair amount of turnover during or after this next season. If they don't fit the culture we want of being a hard working team they'll be sent away like Stepan.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Honestly looking back.
2017-2018: historically bad start, very good end of season and Raanta emerged looking like a top goalie in the league. Keller putting up 65 as a rookie, and Stepan doing things that we traded for him to do. Rough start, promising end.
2018-2019: 6-5 at the end of OCT, 5-6-2 on NOV, and 6-9 in DEC. However, we had better records from. JAN-MAR including a 8-5-1 FEB. This was post Domi, and Gally was injured at the start of the season. Another season where there was more hope at the end of the season than the start. Chayka did a number on the roster though as he traded Domi in the offseason, and Strome and Perlini during the slump in November after a 1-6 loss to Calgary. I believe this was the season where Raanta's injuries really started to become and issue and Kuemper started to shine. Again, lots of hope by the end of it.

Then we all know what happened the next two seasons. Inverses of the first two of the RT/Chayka era. Great starts and utter collapses at the end. You could argue last year was a decent start with a collapse but the team actually looked like they were breaking out in the 2019-2020 season.

Man we really had two deja vu seasons in a row.

I think it's a pattern of Tocchet not having his systems in place early on during his time here. Once implemented it was going alright for a bit and there was promise, especially considering the opening of the third season. Then for the past two seasons after the rest of the league got their opening season own team issues sorted out, this team was now put under the microscope and figured out, leading to late season collapses. Obviously there's more to it than that such as the effects of no practice time due to a condensed and travel heavy schedule.

I just think Tourigny is so much more open to delving right into the tactics that there is less of a concern of a repeat on that level. I expect he'll be quicker to adjust.

 

[Jagged Ice]

Yah I think he'll be able to adapt. And I meant hard ass in a good way. Players will need to play how he wants or else. And it's to do with effort level in order to win. I think Fischer and Crouse could take their games to the next level with him. They'll need to play hard every night.

I also think we could see a fair amount of turnover during or after this next season. If they don't fit the culture we want of being a hard working team they'll be sent away like Stepan.

Reminds me of a player the Wild drafted in 2006. James Shepperd was drafted 9th overall after scoring 96 points in 56 games in the QMJHL and when Jacques Lemaire told him how to play with effort he pretty much said thanks for the advice but he's been playing hockey since he learned to walk. Hockeydb will show you how the rest of his career unfolded.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Can you imagine having all the training, skills and talent to get a promotion. Then your boss hires someone way less qualified then you for the position. Then says I know you can do the job we just want you to practice it some more. Improve your words per minute. Would this create dislike towards your employer?

Sure, but I can also see the boss knowing you will need a particular skill once up in that position, and telling you to specifically focus on that until it's routine like everything else you already can do well rather than having you struggle with increasing the difficulty of everything at once and having you learn the new skill on the fly.

I don't think there is harm at having a player go to the AHL to shore up a particular weakness when in the NHL that weakness will be feasted upon. It's important to set some one up for assured success rather than risk the possibility of messing with their confidence if you miscalculate and have to send them down later when it's clear there is no alternative and they really do need to practice a skill in the AHL. We've been down that road with a few players before and it's quite clearly affected their development trajectory poorly, sometimes enough so that we've had to move on from the player for a pittance.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Yah I think he'll be able to adapt. And I meant hard ass in a good way. Players will need to play how he wants or else. And it's to do with effort level in order to win. I think Fischer and Crouse could take their games to the next level with him. They'll need to play hard every night.

I also think we could see a fair amount of turnover during or after this next season. If they don't fit the culture we want of being a hard working team they'll be sent away like Stepan.

I'm sure we won't ever know, but it'd be interesting to know which players Armstrong ranked as more moveable that Tourigny will want pulled back into the fold as a good turn-around candidates.

 

[Jakey53]

Sure, but I can also see the boss knowing you will need a particular skill once up in that position, and telling you to specifically focus on that until it's routine like everything else you already can do well rather than having you struggle with increasing the difficulty of everything at once and having you learn the new skill on the fly.

I don't think there is harm at having a player go to the AHL to shore up a particular weakness when in the NHL that weakness will be feasted upon. It's important to set some one up for assured success rather than risk the possibility of messing with their confidence if you miscalculate and have to send them down later when it's clear there is no alternative and they really do need to practice a skill in the AHL. We've been down that road with a few players before and it's quite clearly affected their development trajectory poorly, sometimes enough so that we've had to move on from the player for a pittance.

I don't understand that some of you guys don't understand how big a difference it is playing in the NHL to any other league in the world. A kid with outstanding skill can make the jump from junior to the NHL, but it's not the norm. Some can do it in one year, two years, three years, and most never make it. But if I'm picking first, I would almost expect that player to make the jump immediately, or the next year, not three of four years down the road, and if he is heading in that direction I'm looking to cut bait and get something in a trade.

 

[Jakey53]

Meh. Gretzky was a success on ice, but from a coaching perspective, not so much. Hitchcock was a much better coach than he ever was a player.

Plenty of bad players have won Cups, and plenty of good players got few chances.

The truth is that a collective group needs to find that piece to rally around. The 09-10 team never had a ton of overly successful players, but they rallied around an actual system from Tippett and being the team that was the question of whether or not hockey can survive.

I think that you should say, "the more motivated people you have in your organization, the greater chance of success." Hopefully Tourigny is that person to increase the motivation amongst players.

Not talking about players rather FO people etc.,

 

[Jakey53]

Even 1st rounders can take time to develop. Sometimes, it may not be a physical thing or a skill thing. If they are immature and struggle to be in the room, then that is as good a reason as any to not have that player in the NHL early. A player who doesn't know how to accept responsibility and blame others will fracture a locker room.

Every player is different. That is why scouting and drafting is the back bone of a successful franchise.

 

[Headcrush19]

I'm impressed with this coach hiring.I watched him a bit with Ottawa 67's and with hockey Canada and thought he brings lots of good stuff as a coach.

 

[XX]

I'm sure we won't ever know, but it'd be interesting to know which players Armstrong ranked as more moveable that Tourigny will want pulled back into the fold as a good turn-around candidates.

Pretty much everyone that survives this summer has about 45 games to respond to new coaching or they're out of here. That's the vibe I get from what has been said.

 

[Canis Latrans]

Pretty much everyone that survives this summer has about 45 games to respond to new coaching or they're out of here. That's the vibe I get from what has been said.

Sure, but will we ever know those guys who Armstrong would have moved on from before Tourigny stepped in to keep them here for longer? I'm just curious because some one who Armstrong was going to jettison in the offseason, but was saved, and then turns it around may demonstrate misevaluation by Armstrong or perhaps just better evaluation by Tourigny. The opposite could also be true if some one is kept and winds up being a goner by midseason. Ideally they're in lockstep and every one we keep has a renaissance.

 

[XX]

Sure, but will we ever know those guys who Armstrong would have moved on from before Tourigny stepped in to keep them here for longer? I'm just curious because some one who Armstrong was going to jettison in the offseason, but was saved, and then turns it around may demonstrate misevaluation by Armstrong or perhaps just better evaluation by Tourigny. The opposite could also be true if some one is kept and winds up being a goner by midseason. Ideally they're in lockstep and every one we keep has a renaissance.

BA and any incumbent staff have the advantage of seeing said players behind the scenes for a year, including watching them fall flat on their face when it mattered. If BA has character concerns about someone, Tourigny will defer. Most of the trades we are talking about are clearing the brush financially for the future rather than major surgery aka trading Keller or Dvorak and the like.

In a vacuum, it would be nice to keep someone like OEL to see what he could play like under new coaches with the weight of the C taken away. But BA doesn't operate in a vacuum and has a budget to balance/roster to fill out.

I'm sure AT loves Garland's tape, for example, and very much wishes for him to be on the opening day roster. A GM operates on a longer time horizon and may decide that's not the best path forward. The coach has input but they also are expected to coach the team placed in front of them.

AT will be a difference maker when it comes to his firsthand experience and knowledge of players that may be available in FA or trade or waivers. Does anyone really believe Tocchet is/was capable of looking at scouting tape and divining a player's value? AT has done that for nearly his entire career as GM of junior teams. AT is also BA's "guy" so for the first time we will see a coach and GM in near lockstep. I expect those two things to pay nice dividends.

 

[Canis Latrans]

BA and any incumbent staff have the advantage of seeing said players behind the scenes for a year, including watching them fall flat on their face when it mattered. If BA has character concerns about someone, Tourigny will defer. Most of the trades we are talking about are clearing the brush financially for the future rather than major surgery aka trading Keller or Dvorak and the like.

In a vacuum, it would be nice to keep someone like OEL to see what he could play like under new coaches with the weight of the C taken away. But BA doesn't operate in a vacuum and has a budget to balance/roster to fill out.

I'm sure AT loves Garland's tape, for example, and very much wishes for him to be on the opening day roster. A GM operates on a longer time horizon and may decide that's not the best path forward. The coach has input but they also are expected to coach the team placed in front of them.

AT will be a difference maker when it comes to his firsthand experience and knowledge of players that may be available in FA or trade or waivers. Does anyone really believe Tocchet is/was capable of looking at scouting tape and divining a player's value? AT has done that for nearly his entire career as GM of junior teams. AT is also BA's "guy" so for the first time we will see a coach and GM in near lockstep. I expect those two things to pay nice dividends.

Oh I agree, I'm just excited to see which players he makes the biggest impact with really. Like we may see guys like Keller and Dvorak really shine and thrive under this new tutelage, but taking a player like say Fischer and moving him from potential scratch/expansion fodder to definitive roster player with some offensive pop would be great to see. I'm curious if we have any hidden gems who appear kind of like Bunting did last season, something out of nothing. I have expectations for improvements under him with guys who are solidly already on the roster, I just want to see what more there is.

 

[Jakey53]

BA and any incumbent staff have the advantage of seeing said players behind the scenes for a year, including watching them fall flat on their face when it mattered. If BA has character concerns about someone, Tourigny will defer. Most of the trades we are talking about are clearing the brush financially for the future rather than major surgery aka trading Keller or Dvorak and the like.

In a vacuum, it would be nice to keep someone like OEL to see what he could play like under new coaches with the weight of the C taken away. But BA doesn't operate in a vacuum and has a budget to balance/roster to fill out.

I'm sure AT loves Garland's tape, for example, and very much wishes for him to be on the opening day roster. A GM operates on a longer time horizon and may decide that's not the best path forward. The coach has input but they also are expected to coach the team placed in front of them.

AT will be a difference maker when it comes to his firsthand experience and knowledge of players that may be available in FA or trade or waivers. Does anyone really believe Tocchet is/was capable of looking at scouting tape and divining a player's value? AT has done that for nearly his entire career as GM of junior teams. AT is also BA's "guy" so for the first time we will see a coach and GM in near lockstep. I expect those two things to pay nice dividends.

I agree with everything you said, except your last sentence. I think "hope" is a better word than "expect". I for one have no idea what to expect.

 

[XX]

 

[rt]

This is really interesting. Thankfully it’s putting me to sleep (mercifully) but I especially liked how he talked about system play and where system plays falls on his priority list (starting at 37:20). SPOILER: he thinks habits are paramount and systems are just details. His 10 habits:

1. win loose puck battles
2. reload-be on top of the puck
3. discipline-change for the team
4. faceoff ready
5. 2nd quick-create 2-1
6. block shot
7. angling and good stick
8. puck management
9. goalie presence
10. slow down opponent

Really like at 43:08 where he’s talking about what he values in system plays. Defensive zone control and structure and detail (obviously, who doesn’t? ) but more interesting is his view on Tracking which he says is used to “Take away the soul of the opponent” that when you play a team that tracks like mad dogs all the time, it’s intimidating and takes your soul away and you just can’t get going and they just suck the wind out of you the whole time.

Then he preaches possession (obviously, who doesn’t) but more interesting is he says he’s willing to sacrifice some offense for more possession. Stating that the best chances come form mistakes other teams make when you’re possessing the puck. He seems to think it’s all about never giving up possession and supporting plays in ways that sustain possession. Talks a lot about hard forechecking. This seems to be a theme with him. Likes aggressive forecheck, possession, and relentless puck hounding (I mean, I guess all coaches do - haha - but this one really stresses these things).

At 1:00:00 he starts breaking down the basics of his d zone system. It’s not groundbreaking and what he says isn’t particularly interesting but the way he says it is. How he stresses certain things and is very black and white in certain things. Interesting. Does the same for his forecheck at 1:38:00. Again, basic and standard but the delivery and emphasis may be telling.

He gets really passionate 1:33:25 - covers much of what he said at the presser but in more detail with more feeling. Good stuff. Nice to finally have a coach who can speak English fluently. Dude didn’t know how to put at sentence together until 2006. Rick Tocchet is still working on it.

 

[Mangosteen]

In Tocchet defence I do believe he’s partial punch drunk.

 

[LittlePipes]

Once in a while for some crazy reason the TV coverage of the Yotes would include a clip of the locker room between periods - with audio. Once or twice Tocchet came in spoke to the players. Totally unimpressive. Totally non inspirational. Not coherent. Revealing of being lost wrt what was happening on the ice AND how the team should respond. If I was one of those players I would have thought.. “really??”, the put on my gear , get out there and proceed without the benefit of good input from the coach.

 

[rt]

What Tourigny describes reminds me a bit of a Tippett and Gallant hybrid.

 

[YotesFan47]

What Tourigny describes reminds me a bit of a Tippett and Gallant hybrid.

If that can be the expectation (including a better management of young players), I'll be the happiest boy at the prom.

I really like Tipp, I was ready to move on but he was my favorite for the job and continued to be someone I thought highly of until the departure of Maloney.