Analyzing Dubas's performance II - (Full Analysis)

[The CyNick]

I suggest you watch Tavares press conference on the day he signed and how he praised Dubas in their meetings that made him choose Toronto.

Never mentions Dubas by name. Heavy praise for Babs though and specifically talked about how "tremendous Mike was in the meeting".

He talks about the opportunity to play with a young core, longer window to win, great relationship with Babs and they won couple times before, talks a lot about timing, and mentions several times about the lure of playing for Toronto, his boyhood team.

Not once did he say Dubas was magical in the presentation. Dubas himself said they just laid out the players he would be playing with, and as JT himself said, it appears Babs was the one talking for most of that part of the presentation.

If anything you have convinced me that Babs was even a far greater factor in signing JT than I remembered. So thank you for pointing that out. Look forward to reading it in my future posts. I will ensure to give you credit.

 

[Dekes For Days]

That sounds made up.
Once he made it to UFA it seem pretty much accepted he would be coming here or re-upping in NY.

This is false. Toronto was not seen as the most likely option until he was signed on July 1st. We were at best considered a distant 3rd, and most laughed at the idea.

 

[The CyNick]

If Dubas had failed to sign Tavares I'm willing to bet you would be the first one to bash him if that happened.

You just can't admit to say Dubas did something good that no one thought would happen because of the Leafs history in signing big name UFA's, unless you include Curtis Joseph when they signed him in July 1998 and the fact is Lou failed. Why the hell do you think he was talking to Tavares on behalf of the Islanders when he was still under contract to Toronto as a Senior Adviser. They wanted Tavares re-signed at all costs.

Again, you're talking about past situations as though that are all the same. Dubas was able to sign JT because of a number of unique factors. Not the least of which was having Mike Babcock as coach.

 

[The CyNick]

This is false. Toronto was not seen as the most likely option until he was signed on July 1st. We were at best considered a distant 3rd, and most laughed at the idea.

Not true. JT says in the press conference it came down to Toronto vs staying in the Island.

You're mixing fact with fake news media BS.

 

[Dekes For Days]

JT says in the press conference it came down to Toronto vs staying in the Island.

Yes, in the end, for him personally as the time ticked down. Public perception was that Toronto's chances were a distant 3rd.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Again, you're talking about past situations as though that are all the same. Dubas was able to sign JT because of a number of unique factors. Not the least of which was having Mike Babcock as coach.

So Tavares was saying nice things about Babcock since he was his new coach and had a relationship with him from the 2014 Canadian Olympic team and 2016 Canadian World Cup of Hockey team.

After Sheldon Keefe won his NHL coaching debut it was Tavares did this for him, so he's nice and respectful no matter who the Leafs coach would be.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yes, in the end, for him personally as the time ticked down. Public perception was that Toronto's chances were a distant 3rd.

Weren't people saying there was no way Tavares would sign in Toronto?

It was the same type of talk they said about Mike Babcock and how he would never leave Detroit and coach in Toronto.

 

[The CyNick]

Yes, in the end, for him personally as the time ticked down. Public perception was that Toronto's chances were a distant 3rd.

So you're taking "public perception" over the guy himself?

 

[ACC1224]

You are right don't worry what people think on here they really don't know. JT himself was going back and forth between resigning and coming here until virtually da night before he has his lawyer work with Leafs to draft up agreement. Most of his family and friends thought it was 60/40 he signed with Leafs. and bottom line it came down to family and childhood dreams. Yes our team had good prospects and yes we had a boat load of $$$ but Tavares' are family first. Same with Shanahan's. These relationships go back before hockey to lacrosse.

Yep, people make up stuff on here all the time, it's pretty comical and sort of sad.

 

[The CyNick]

So Tavares was saying nice things about Babcock since he was his new coach and had a relationship with him from the 2014 Canadian Olympic team and 2016 Canadian World Cup of Hockey team.

After Sheldon Keefe won his NHL coaching debut it was Tavares did this for him, so he's nice and respectful no matter who the Leafs coach would be.

I see, so even though JT goes out of his way to praise Babs by name in his press conference, that's BS. But his praise for Dubas, which is non existent in the presser is real. Got it Pal.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I see, so even though JT goes out of his way to praise Babs by name in his press conference, that's BS. But his praise for Dubas, which is non existent in the presser is real. Got it Pal.

Let me post this again about how much of a role Dubas played when they meet with Tavares prior to signing him, because this was idea going into the meeting.

How the Toronto Maple Leafs signed John Tavares - Sportsnet.ca

Two years ago, the Toronto Maple Leafs sat down with Steven Stamkos, but, by their own admission, blew it. “Within two minutes,” one member of the organization later said, “we knew we’d lost him.”

That presentation focused on “the hometown boy’s return” and “this is how you can make even more money by playing in Toronto.” It was, by all accounts, a total whiff. This time, they were determined to avoid the previous mistake. “The focus for us with John was only on hockey,” Dubas told the 31 Thoughts podcast last July. “That was the major thing that we wanted our focus to be…. ‘Here’s who we are as a hockey team,’ and ‘Here’s who we are as a program to help you reach your potential.’ ‘Here’s what we do on the development side.’

“If you rewind it [to] two years ago, we were going in and saying, ‘Here’s what we are going to become,’ and ‘Here’s what we intend to be,’ so it was trying to sell them on what we intended to be as an organization that had just finished in last place and picked first overall, versus now in 2018…. It was much easier…. To me, it has to be always about hockey. The periphery stuff that comes with playing in whatever market it is, that’s up to the player and his representative in terms of what he does and doesn’t want to do.”

Toronto pushed hard on the practical reasons for Tavares to come — the talent in the organization; the young core of Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander. But the Maple Leafs also pulled some emotional strings.

 

[Merrrlin]

That sounds made up.
Once he made it to UFA it seem pretty much accepted he would be coming here or re-upping in NY.

That's not how it went down at all.

 

[Stephen]

I always thought Stamkos wanted the experience of meeting with other teams like Toronto and had planned to re-sign with Tampa all along. So what you said does make sense.

Yep, and when MLSE called in Canadian Tire and the mayor of Toronto Stamkos got scared that this fishbowl market would eat him up alive. It was also before the Leafs rookies broke out so he had no idea what he was signing up for on the ice. Tavares had 2 extra years to see the Toronto core in action from a distance before jumping over.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I don't even care about media reports, family ties or any bit from either side of this "argument".

The GM signed the f***in' player so he gets f***in' credit for signing the player. That's how it f***in' works and has always worked and it's that simple. The GM makes the team by trading and signing players. If you're trying to talk around that, it says a lot about you and your agenda. Complete ridiculous to not give the GM credit for bringing in a franchise center. Give your head a shake.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yep, and when MLSE called in Canadian Tire and the mayor of Toronto Stamkos got scared that this fishbowl market would eat him up alive. It was also before the Leafs rookies broke out so he had no idea what he was signing up for on the ice. Tavares had 2 extra years to see the Toronto core in action from a distance before jumping over.

Obviously at that time no one would have predicted the Maple Leafs making the playoffs 1 year later, since Matthews and Marner had not yet made their NHL debuts and Nylander was coming off only playing 22 games during the 2015-16 after being called up from the Marlies.

As for Stamkos being scared and etc, that's why Dubas did the exact opposite approach compared to Lamoriello.

 

[LeafsNation75]

 

[ACC1224]

That's not how it went down at all.

How did it go down?

 

[The CyNick]

Let me post this again about how much of a role Dubas played when they meet with Tavares prior to signing him, because this was idea going into the meeting.

How the Toronto Maple Leafs signed John Tavares - Sportsnet.ca

Dubas addresses Stamkos vs Tavares presentations in the press conference you posted. He said the difference was with Stamkos they were trying to sell Stamkos on what these players would become because they were young or had not yet played. With JT they already had a body of work. He said they sold JT on the team he was joining. Then JT himself said Mike was outstanding at showing him how he would fit on the team. He also said the team had a long window to win. Since Dubas acquired none of these core pieces, it's tough to credit Dubas. It's more accurate to say he lucked into being the GM of the team that was going to sign Tavares.

Never mentions Dubas by name. So again, you put in a lot of time and effort to show evidence that JT was motivated to play for Babs, who he had won with several times in the past.

 

[The CyNick]

Yep, and when MLSE called in Canadian Tire and the mayor of Toronto Stamkos got scared that this fishbowl market would eat him up alive. It was also before the Leafs rookies broke out so he had no idea what he was signing up for on the ice. Tavares had 2 extra years to see the Toronto core in action from a distance before jumping over.

Such a stupid narrative that the media tries to sell. You think Stamkos was unaware this is a fishbowl market? You think he suddenly "oh my God, Canadian Tire and the Mayor are here, that means I'm going to scrutinized". He grew up in this market. That's why he never intended to sign here.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Dubas addresses Stamkos vs Tavares presentations in the press conference you posted. He said the difference was with Stamkos they were trying to sell Stamkos on what these players would become because they were young or had not yet played. With JT they already had a body of work. He said they sold JT on the team he was joining. Then JT himself said Mike was outstanding at showing him how he would fit on the team. He also said the team had a long window to win. Since Dubas acquired none of these core pieces, it's tough to credit Dubas. It's more accurate to say he lucked into being the GM of the team that was going to sign Tavares.

Never mentions Dubas by name. So again, you put in a lot of time and effort to show evidence that JT was motivated to play for Babs, who he had won with several times in the past.

Do you not understand that if it wasn't for Dubas making the presentation to Tavares the way he did, because he saw how Lamoriello failed. So I'm willing to bet if Lou was still the Leafs GM there is no way Tavares signs in Toronto. The best evidence to support that is the fact Tavares did not re-sign with the Islanders after they hired Lamoriello to be their President of Hockey Operations and GM. Plus the fact he had a head start with that exclusive window to negotiate with him before Tavares could speak with other teams.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Such a stupid narrative that the media tries to sell. You think Stamkos was unaware this is a fishbowl market? You think he suddenly "oh my God, Canadian Tire and the Mayor are here, that means I'm going to scrutinized". He grew up in this market. That's why he never intended to sign here.

If Stamkos goal was to get more money from the Lightning which obviously never happened and re-sign with them no matter what, he should have never bothered to meet with the Maple Leafs in the first place.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So you're taking "public perception" over the guy himself?

When discussing what public perception was? Yeah.

 

[Stephen]

Such a stupid narrative that the media tries to sell. You think Stamkos was unaware this is a fishbowl market? You think he suddenly "oh my God, Canadian Tire and the Mayor are here, that means I'm going to scrutinized". He grew up in this market. That's why he never intended to sign here.

That’s a fun conspiracy theory but let’s break it down.

Let’s say Stamkos didn’t like what Tampa was originally offering and decided to pull a little Toronto song and dance to drive up the price.

He goes through the motions, hears the Toronto presentation, gets offered the highest salary in the league...

...Then he chooses to sign Tampa’s original deal?

Now that would be the definition of a stupid narrative.

 

[The CyNick]

That’s a fun conspiracy theory but let’s break it down.

Let’s say Stamkos didn’t like what Tampa was originally offering and decided to pull a little Toronto song and dance to drive up the price.

He goes through the motions, hears the Toronto presentation, gets offered the highest salary in the league...

...Then he chooses to sign Tampa’s original deal?

Now that would be the definition of a stupid narrative.

So you think he didn't know Toronto is a fish bowl market? And then once he saw the Mayor and some random guy in a Canadian Tire shirt, he went running back to Tampa?

 

[The CyNick]

If Stamkos goal was to get more money from the Lightning which obviously never happened and re-sign with them no matter what, he should have never bothered to meet with the Maple Leafs in the first place.

It was an attempt to drive up the price. Clearly didn't work. That's all there is to it.