Analyzing Dubas's performance II - (Full Analysis)

[The CyNick]

Dubas wasn't gifted Tavares and it was never a guarantee he was going to sign in Toronto. So please don't talk like those Islanders fans who claim Tavares was coming to the Maple Leafs no matter what and how Dubas shouldn't get any credit for signing him.

Also they lost to Boston because of Mike Babcock's coaching decisions since he refused to change his way of thinking. Having Zach Hyman taking a short handed faceoff playing on a torn ACL against Patrice Bergeron which he lost and seconds later Brad Marchand ties Game 6 at 1-1.

So you think Dubas told JT's chick to be from Toronto and want to start a family closer to home?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Dubas wasn't gifted Tavares and it was never a guarantee he was going to sign in Toronto. So please don't talk like those Islanders fans who claim Tavares was coming to the Maple Leafs no matter what and how Dubas shouldn't get any credit for signing him.

It’s hilarious how the narrative is that Tavares was always coming here, when pretty much everyone and their mother thought Tavares to Toronto was a dream beforehand.

 

[The CyNick]

Lou already gave Jean-Gabriel Pageau a 6 year extension worth $5 million AAV and his career high in points in a season is 43. Plus in the first two years he has a NTC and the final four years he has a Modified NTC.

And yet still finished ahead of Dubas and the Leafs this year. Maybe he knows what he's doing.

 

[The CyNick]

It’s hilarious how the narrative is that Tavares was always coming here, when pretty much everyone and their mother thought Tavares to Toronto was a dream beforehand.

It only seemed like a dream because of how few big stars move. Once he didn't sign that season back with the Isles it was clear he was leaving. This was the logical landing spot because of his personal situation. The talent on the team was a huge factor as was playing for Babs. If you were to draw out a pie chart of the reasons JT chose to play here, the Dubas slice would appear as a feint line and have a line extending from it with a percentage of something like 0.05%

 

[POVERTY]

If we're taking the words of commentators as gospel man I've seen some crazy shit while Romanuk was commentating. Now excuse me while I order a Leafs Vanbiesbrouck jersey.

 

[kb]

As the light grow dimmer.....barely flickering......

So far Dubas gets a passing grade from me. The big-3 being overpaid by a couple of million will be his defining legacy for some, which is baffling considering these are the very types of players you overpay for, not 37 year olds or 3rd/4th liners....Komarov is overpaid by more than the total of the big 3, for example.

Even docking him marks for the backup situation would imply that there were affordable options available that he ignored. We have no idea on that. Sparks failed, so Hutch was brought in. Hutch failed, so Campbell was brought in. It's not like he completely ignored the issue. Yes, I was one who wanted Mac to stay as backup ahead of Sparks.

His legacy will be determined by what he does from now on, because all the mistakes of the previous GM's are now corrected or gone.

It's go time, Kyle.....

 

[kb]

If we're taking the words of commentators as gospel man I've seen some crazy shit while Romanuk was commentating. Now excuse me while I order a Leafs Vanbiesbrouck jersey.

Just put it beside the Luongo jersey....

 

[LeafsNation75]

So you think Dubas told JT's chick to be from Toronto and want to start a family closer to home?

Did you know that Dubas did the complete opposite of a pitch that Lou did for Stamkos when he failed to sign him. Plus Tavares didn't make up his mind about signing in Toronto until June 30 at 9:00 PM EST.

How the Toronto Maple Leafs signed John Tavares - Sportsnet.ca

Two years ago, the Toronto Maple Leafs sat down with Steven Stamkos, but, by their own admission, blew it. “Within two minutes,” one member of the organization later said, “we knew we’d lost him.”

That presentation focused on “the hometown boy’s return” and “this is how you can make even more money by playing in Toronto.” It was, by all accounts, a total whiff. This time, they were determined to avoid the previous mistake. “The focus for us with John was only on hockey,” Dubas told the 31 Thoughts podcast last July. “That was the major thing that we wanted our focus to be…. ‘Here’s who we are as a hockey team,’ and ‘Here’s who we are as a program to help you reach your potential.’ ‘Here’s what we do on the development side.’

“If you rewind it [to] two years ago, we were going in and saying, ‘Here’s what we are going to become,’ and ‘Here’s what we intend to be,’ so it was trying to sell them on what we intended to be as an organization that had just finished in last place and picked first overall, versus now in 2018…. It was much easier…. To me, it has to be always about hockey. The periphery stuff that comes with playing in whatever market it is, that’s up to the player and his representative in terms of what he does and doesn’t want to do.”

Toronto pushed hard on the practical reasons for Tavares to come — the talent in the organization; the young core of Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander. But the Maple Leafs also pulled some emotional strings.

It’s believed the Maple Leafs were initially thinking between $10 and $10.5 million per year. They wanted him bad, but were mindful of the cap. “Saturday was when we took the plunge, knowing we had a real chance at this,” Dubas recalled last week. “But you are trying to be respectful of the rules. And this has to work. We couldn’t come over the top with an outlandish offer. John himself said we could not lead to subtraction. That was the major point he and I discussed.”

At approximately 9:00 p.m. Eastern time on Sat., June 30, Tavares called Dubas. “I told him I wanted to come,” Tavares says. “‘Let’s get it done.’”

The Maple Leafs committed to $11 million. It was over.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It only seemed like a dream because of how few big stars move. Once he didn't sign that season back with the Isles it was clear he was leaving. This was the logical landing spot because of his personal situation. The talent on the team was a huge factor as was playing for Babs. If you were to draw out a pie chart of the reasons JT chose to play here, the Dubas slice would appear as a feint line and have a line extending from it with a percentage of something like 0.05%

I suggest you watch Tavares press conference on the day he signed and how he praised Dubas in their meetings that made him choose Toronto.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It’s hilarious how the narrative is that Tavares was always coming here, when pretty much everyone and their mother thought Tavares to Toronto was a dream beforehand.

I remember thinking Tavares was either going to re-sign with the Islanders or if he was to leave it would be for San Jose. It wasn't until 12:00 AM on July 1, 2018 that I started thinking maybe Toronto has a chance since he couldn't get 8 years anymore from the Islanders. Plus when it was announced that Tyler Bozak would be going to St. Louis that's when I realized they have to be getting Tavares to replace him.

 

[The CyNick]

Did you know that Dubas did the complete opposite of a pitch that Lou did for Stamkos when he failed to sign him. Plus Tavares didn't make up his mind about signing in Toronto until June 30 at 9:00 PM EST.

How the Toronto Maple Leafs signed John Tavares - Sportsnet.ca

If you ever talked to anyone who knows Stamkos, you would know this is the last place he wanted to play. He likes being a nobody in Tampa. The Leafs could have said anything and he still wasn't going to sign here. You're assuming all players are the same or have the same family situation that is driving their decisions.

If you want to think JT was persuaded by Dubas to sign here, nothing I say will change your mind. It's probably better that you keep that fantasy in place.

 

[LeafsNation75]

If you ever talked to anyone who knows Stamkos, you would know this is the last place he wanted to play. He likes being a nobody in Tampa. The Leafs could have said anything and he still wasn't going to sign here. You're assuming all players are the same or have the same family situation that is driving their decisions.

If you want to think JT was persuaded by Dubas to sign here, nothing I say will change your mind. It's probably better that you keep that fantasy in place.

So why did Stamkos even agree to meet with Lou and Maple Leafs management before he re-signed in Tampa? However no matter what Lou failed at being able to sign him, just like he failed to re-sign Tavares in New York.

 

[The CyNick]

I remember thinking Tavares was either going to re-sign with the Islanders or if he was to leave it would be for San Jose. It wasn't until 12:00 AM on July 1, 2018 that I started thinking maybe Toronto has a chance since he couldn't get 8 years anymore from the Islanders. Plus when it was announced that Tyler Bozak would be going to St. Louis that's when I realized they have to be getting Tavares to replace him.

You clearly weren't taking to anyone who knows JT. SJ was never a serious contender. Happy wife, happy life. Always remember that.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You clearly weren't taking to anyone who knows JT. SJ was never a serious contender. Happy wife, happy life. Always remember that.

The Sharks obviously thought differently then you do.

How the Toronto Maple Leafs signed John Tavares - Sportsnet.ca

San Jose had the only owner show up, and that impressed Tavares. It took Plattner two-and-a-half hours to drive from where his plane landed to the meeting. Wilson doesn’t like being called a great salesman — “I don’t think it’s selling to talk about how proud we are of what we’ve built here” — but if you’ve ever seen Glengarry Glen Ross, you’ll know that he is allowed to drink coffee, because coffee is for closers.

Wilson wouldn’t discuss San Jose’s pitch, but word is he told Tavares, “You are the final piece for us.” It has also been rumoured (but never confirmed) that the Sharks were willing to pay $13.5 million per year for seven years. “That was a confident group,” one source says. “They felt they were the best option for John, and they showed it.”

 

[The CyNick]

So why did Stamkos even agree to meet with Lou and Maple Leafs management before he re-signed in Tampa? However no matter what Lou failed at being able to sign him, just like he failed to re-sign Tavares in New York.

You can paint that narrative if it makes you feel better. I prefer to focus on the standings and the playoffs. So far it's Lou 2 Young Kyle 0.

As for Stammer, I think he just wanted to see what was available. You only get to be a UFA so many times in your career. Everyone who I have ever talked to who knows Steven well says playing for Toronto isn't for him. He loves it in Tampa. Loves being a nobody. Thinks the team is built well. Trusts management. There was no reason to leave. That's why ultimately he took way less than he could have earned to stay in Tampa.

There were many teams other than Toronto in on Stamkos. He could have literally picked his spot. He just likes Tampa. But his representatives felt it was in his best interest to shop around, and they also hoped it was max out the offer from Tampa.

So you can call that a fail by Lou, but I think that's unfair to characterize that way.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You can paint that narrative if it makes you feel better. I prefer to focus on the standings and the playoffs. So far it's Lou 2 Young Kyle 0.

As for Stammer, I think he just wanted to see what was available. You only get to be a UFA so many times in your career. Everyone who I have ever talked to who knows Steven well says playing for Toronto isn't for him. He loves it in Tampa. Loves being a nobody. Thinks the team is built well. Trusts management. There was no reason to leave. That's why ultimately he took way less than he could have earned to stay in Tampa.

There were many teams other than Toronto in on Stamkos. He could have literally picked his spot. He just likes Tampa. But his representatives felt it was in his best interest to shop around, and they also hoped it was max out the offer from Tampa.

So you can call that a fail by Lou, but I think that's unfair to characterize that way.

What narrative is that? The facts are Lou failed to sign Stamkos and Dubas was able to sign Tavares.

If Stamkos loves Tampa so much and I'm not saying he doesn't, why didn't he end up re-signing months earlier and even bother meeting with Toronto during the negotiation week? The contract he signed is exactly what Steve Yzerman was offering him for the whole season.

 

[The CyNick]

The Sharks obviously thought differently then you do.

How the Toronto Maple Leafs signed John Tavares - Sportsnet.ca

Doesn't prove anything.

Like I said about Stamkos, it's in the employees benefit to have as many suitors in the mix as possible. Especially against a rookie negotiator on the other side of the table.

Is it possible SJ could have put a number on the table to make JT change his mind? Yeah maybe. If the reports are correct, he turned down like $15M to play in Toronto. Clearly that tells me Toronto was in the lead going into the negotiations.

Everything I've heard was he felt guilty about leaving the Isles, but if he was going to leave, Toronto was always the destination. I've never heard anyone say another city was in the lead and Dubas changed his mind at the last minute.

 

[The CyNick]

What narrative is that? The facts are Lou failed to sign Stamkos and Dubas was able to sign Tavares.

If Stamkos loves Tampa so much and I'm not saying he doesn't, why didn't he end up re-signing months earlier and even bother meeting with Toronto during the negotiation week? The contract he signed is exactly what Steve Yzerman was offering him for the whole season.

This isn't a video game Pal. Not every player has the same mindset and personal situation. One had nothing to do with the other.

Stamkps took meetings to try to drive up the price a little and to see what other teams have to say. Yzerman stuck to his guns and Stamkos agreed to the number because that's where he wanted to be.

If Lou failed, then so did the other 15-20 GMs that expressed interest. At least Lou got a meeting.

 

[The CyNick]

"Tap dance and spin your partner round and round."

View attachment 352229

Another post with no substance. What a shock.

 

[hotpaws]

What narrative is that? The facts are Lou failed to sign Stamkos and Dubas was able to sign Tavares.

If Stamkos loves Tampa so much and I'm not saying he doesn't, why didn't he end up re-signing months earlier and even bother meeting with Toronto during the negotiation week? The contract he signed is exactly what Steve Yzerman was offering him for the whole season.

Stamkos didnt't sign with us because he was trying to drive up the offer from Tampa and the rumor was the only reason he had a meeting with the Leafs was to try to use us to get a better deal .

 

[ACC1224]

It’s hilarious how the narrative is that Tavares was always coming here, when pretty much everyone and their mother thought Tavares to Toronto was a dream beforehand.

That sounds made up.
Once he made it to UFA it seem pretty much accepted he would be coming here or re-upping in NY.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

That sounds made up.
Once he made it to UFA it seem pretty much accepted he would be coming here or re-upping in NY.

You are right don't worry what people think on here they really don't know. JT himself was going back and forth between resigning and coming here until virtually da night before he has his lawyer work with Leafs to draft up agreement. Most of his family and friends thought it was 60/40 he signed with Leafs. and bottom line it came down to family and childhood dreams. Yes our team had good prospects and yes we had a boat load of $$$ but Tavares' are family first. Same with Shanahan's. These relationships go back before hockey to lacrosse.

 

[LeafsNation75]

That sounds made up.
Once he made it to UFA it seem pretty much accepted he would be coming here or re-upping in NY.

I'm not speaking for everyone on here, but I remember the talk was Tavares was either re-signing with the Islanders or going to San Jose if he was to leave them.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Stamkos didnt't sign with us because he was trying to drive up the offer from Tampa and the rumor was the only reason he had a meeting with the Leafs was to try to use us to get a better deal .

I always thought Stamkos wanted the experience of meeting with other teams like Toronto and had planned to re-sign with Tampa all along. So what you said does make sense.

 

[LeafsNation75]

This isn't a video game Pal. Not every player has the same mindset and personal situation. One had nothing to do with the other.

Stamkps took meetings to try to drive up the price a little and to see what other teams have to say. Yzerman stuck to his guns and Stamkos agreed to the number because that's where he wanted to be.

If Lou failed, then so did the other 15-20 GMs that expressed interest. At least Lou got a meeting.

If Dubas had failed to sign Tavares I'm willing to bet you would be the first one to bash him if that happened.

You just can't admit to say Dubas did something good that no one thought would happen because of the Leafs history in signing big name UFA's, unless you include Curtis Joseph when they signed him in July 1998 and the fact is Lou failed. Why the hell do you think he was talking to Tavares on behalf of the Islanders when he was still under contract to Toronto as a Senior Adviser. They wanted Tavares re-signed at all costs.