Analyzing Dubas's performance II - (Full Analysis)

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The CyNick

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It's been proven that Jim Hughson was wrong so I don't know why you keep saying it's the opposite, because if you watch the footage very closely you will see the puck never gets blocked by Polak.

Plus nothing you will say makes him better than Muzzin, because the stats have shown Muzzin to be the better and more impactful player for the Maple Leafs.

So says you, feel free to post video evidence to prove your case if it'll make you feel better.

Ah note I was not saying he's better than Muzzin overall as a hockey player. Only that during Polak's time here, he was better than Muzzin has been THUS FAR during Muzzin's time here. They are small sample sizes to be fair, but let's see Muzzin out there with the season in the balance and see how he performs. If he's a difference maker, I'm happy to move him ahead of Roman.
 

The CyNick

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Jim Hughson was wrong because the video evidence of the play is proof enough.

Although I shouldn't be surprised you agree with Hughson considering how you and him are both Maple Leafs haters which you have in common.

I'm a Leafs hater? Man I spend a lot of money on a team I supposedly hate.

Seems like you have a bias towards Hughson though. Likely clouding your judgment of him.
 

LeafsNation75

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I'm a Leafs hater? Man I spend a lot of money on a team I supposedly hate.

Seems like you have a bias towards Hughson though. Likely clouding your judgment of him.
I admit I hate Hughson because he has a bias against the Leafs with the way he broadcasts their games. However I'm not the only one who thinks that.

Also who cares how much money you spend on them. I spend my fair share of money Maple Leafs jerseys, memorabilia and more.
 

Menzinger

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Polak isn't a stat guy. But he is the type of guy championship teams know you need to have in your lineup.

Here's my take on Polak, which is already being taken out of context. When the chips were down, 45 seconds to go and the season on the line, he was out there against one of the best players of all time. He was a massive presence that whole game. I've watched the game multiple times. If you go back you'll see he was very impactful especially that 3rd period. Then he was really effective in the Washington series until unfortunately getting hurt, and then we lost that series.

Dubas never picked up a cost effective guy like to replace what he brought to the table. Same thing with Hainsey in terms of what he brought to Reilly. Now Reilly is on his own and back to looking average.

As for Muzzin, I've just never seen him be the shutdown guy that people claim he was and can be. I think this upcoming playoff qualifier and hopefully playoffs is a big test for him. Hopefully he shows his value, because he should be heavily relied upon. If he has a big series vs Columbus and helps us beat a Tampa, Boston or Wash I'll be the first to sing his praises.

So far I haven't been impressed.

A strange thing to type considering Muzzin has been an impact player on a cup winning team, something Polak has not ever been
 

kb

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I remember Clarke Wilm had a monster game one time. Beast on the pk, physical, blocked a bunch of shots. Truly a beautiful game that made you root for the guys career and likely almost reduced Cherry to tears.

Clearly that memory is all that needs to be said, he was a more impactful Leaf than John Tavares.
Matthews, Marner, Tavares, etc...were no Tim Brent either.
 

hamzarocks

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Polak was a massively weak link on a Sharks team that lost in the finals though
Defensively he was getting destroyed by the pena top line (who the hell thought it was a good idea to give polak at that stage of his career shutdown minutes). Pens and sharks fans both agree penguins dominated the sharks that series with goaltending bailing the sharks in 2 games and keeping the pens top scorers from getting points. Polak was a mess that playoffs on both ends of the ice. I know he isn't an offensive stud or anything but he had 0+0 in 24 games lool. I'm sure if you gave Marincin 24 games and 18-20 minutes a night he would get 2-3 assists atleast

I cant even see the poster who made the comment but I only have 2 people on ignore so have a pretty good idea who it was.
 
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hamzarocks

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To get back to dubas performance.

I've been so/so on his tenure so far with drafting and trades(with exception of kadri deal) being his strength and high profile negotiations being his weakness (along with goalie assessment).

I do think dubas makes moves that get criticized a little to much. One example is the malgin trade. He gets crapped on for that trade simply b/c malgin had a couple unproductive games (had chances from what I've heard but no finish) and b/c malgin is a small player. People automatically assume malgin = petan and will be a nothing player. While right now it's not a trade worthy of praise it could be a sleeper trade that produces a guy who replaces AJ if ee deal him. Malgin if he works hard enough and gets his confidence back could be a 40+ point forward and we could get him at under 2.5 million most likely. This is a deal that right now who cares but it's one to atleast keep and eye on rather than outright mock. Losing marchment only sucks if you were a fan of him personally and wanted him to be in the organization. Long term he has no shot of being a NHL'er so getting malgin is not the worse outcome
 
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The CyNick

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I admit I hate Hughson because he has a bias against the Leafs with the way he broadcasts their games. However I'm not the only one who thinks that.

Also who cares how much money you spend on them. I spend my fair share of money Maple Leafs jerseys, memorabilia and more.

Good, I'm not questioning whether or not you like the team based on your opinion of one player.
 

The CyNick

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A strange thing to type considering Muzzin has been an impact player on a cup winning team, something Polak has not ever been

You let Polak ride shotgun with Doughty on either of those LA Cup teams and he's got rings too.

That said, I do feel Muzzin had his best year with the Kings in the Cup run. Unfortunately too many people saw that and didn't bother to watch him play since then.
 

The CyNick

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To get back to dubas performance.

I've been so/so on his tenure so far with drafting and trades(with exception of kadri deal) being his strength and high profile negotiations being his weakness (along with goalie assessment).

I do think dubas makes moves that get criticized a little to much. One example is the malgin trade. He gets crapped on for that trade simply b/c malgin had a couple unproductive games (had chances from what I've heard but no finish) and b/c malgin is a small player. People automatically assume malgin = petan and will be a nothing player. While right now it's not a trade worthy of praise it could be a sleeper trade that produces a guy who replaces AJ if ee deal him. Malgin if he works hard enough and gets his confidence back could be a 40+ point forward and we could get him at under 2.5 million most likely. This is a deal that right now who cares but it's one to atleast keep and eye on rather than outright mock. Losing marchment only sucks if you were a fan of him personally and wanted him to be in the organization. Long term he has no shot of being a NHL'er so getting malgin is not the worse outcome

Geez, the Malgin trade is so far down the list of bad Dubas moves it doesn't even register.

I'm a results oriented person. Dubas inherited a team coming off a franchise setting regular season. Since then it's been a disaster given the talent he has been gifted.

I would have never promoted him, but given the short leash they gave Lou and Babs, you would think a 1st round exit would be the end of Dubas. At the very least, he should be on thin ice with next year being do or die.
 

LeafsNation75

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You let Polak ride shotgun with Doughty on either of those LA Cup teams and he's got rings too.

That said, I do feel Muzzin had his best year with the Kings in the Cup run. Unfortunately too many people saw that and didn't bother to watch him play since then.
In 24 playoff games Polak played with the Sharks who made the Stanley Cup Final in 2016, he had a grand total of 0 goals, 0 assists and 0 points. Plus just in the Final alone he was -3 in six games played.

When Muzzin won the Stnaley Cup with the Kings in 2014 he had 6, goals, 6 assists for 12 points in 26 playoff games. In the Finals alone he had 1 goal and was +3.
 

4thline

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So how many people still wish Lou was the Leafs GM after reading something like that?

I know I would rather that we had struck out on Tavares and given Bozak/JVR a combined 13 million on 6 year deals, then instead of getting Muzzin with a year left on his deal paid a 1st+2nd+3rd for Nick Jensen and signed him to a 5m extension.
 

The CyNick

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Lou is a bad GM. Please don't ever someone say they rather have Lou because thats just wrong.


Barzal will be interesting.

Dubas gave AM 11.634M x 5 for putting up 205 points in his first three full seasons. Barzal has up 207, so we know what Dubas would pay him. Let's see what Lou thinks he's worth.

Isles will be fine. Finished ahead of us this year. Sad.
 

meefer

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Geez, the Malgin trade is so far down the list of bad Dubas moves it doesn't even register.

I'm a results oriented person. Dubas inherited a team coming off a franchise setting regular season. Since then it's been a disaster given the talent he has been gifted.

I would have never promoted him, but given the short leash they gave Lou and Babs, you would think a 1st round exit would be the end of Dubas. At the very least, he should be on thin ice with next year being do or die.

As a results oriented person, would you then not see Lou's tenure as GM as being a failed term? What did the team accomplish during the playoffs during his years at the helm?

Come on, your shtick is growing old. You and I, as many here know, saw the Leafs exceed expectations, not win a round, fall back a little, and are now poised to either succeed with the core and compliments that are signed, or fail. Dubas is no more a failure (or success) after two years than Lou was after 3 years. The team is a work in progress. Each had their failures as GM, each had their successes. Hardly a difficult concept to digest, and if you're going to stick with your shtick, then you're simply being contrary for the fun of it. This year is important, yes. A win of a round or two, mmmm, what do we do to improve? A loss...do we tear things down? But, come on, you're constant bickering about a GM who is two years into his term with 1 playoff series loss to a Cup contender, is purposeful to a deceitful degree. Let's see what transpires if the playoffs proceed, and then consider the options, and then determine the GM's value should he need to redefine his agenda as the team's leader.
 

The CyNick

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In 24 playoff games Polak played with the Sharks who made the Stanley Cup Final in 2016, he had a grand total of 0 goals, 0 assists and 0 points. Plus just in the Final alone he was -3 in six games played.

When Muzzin won the Stnaley Cup with the Kings in 2014 he had 6, goals, 6 assists for 12 points in 26 playoff games. In the Finals alone he had 1 goal and was +3.

2014 Kings were better than the 2016 Sharks. Nice that Polak made three Finals and got in that many games. Coach must have felt he was contributing.

I would say Anze, Drew, and JQ were the driving factors behind the Kings wins though.

I would have to go back and watch tapes of Sharks that year to see how Polak played and provide an analysis. However, it's irrelevant because I was only discussing both players as Leafs.
 

The CyNick

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As a results oriented person, would you then not see Lou's tenure as GM as being a failed term? What did the team accomplish during the playoffs during his years at the helm?

Come on, your shtick is growing old. You and I, as many here know, saw the Leafs exceed expectations, not win a round, fall back a little, and are now poised to either succeed with the core and compliments that are signed, or fail. Dubas is no more a failure (or success) after two years than Lou was after 3 years. The team is a work in progress. Each had their failures as GM, each had their successes. Hardly a difficult concept to digest, and if you're going to stick with your shtick, then you're simply being contrary for the fun of it. This year is important, yes. A win of a round or two, mmmm, what do we do to improve? A loss...do we tear things down? But, come on, you're constant bickering about a GM who is two years into his term with 1 playoff series loss to a Cup contender, is purposeful to a deceitful degree. Let's see what transpires if the playoffs proceed, and then consider the options, and then determine the GM's value should he need to redefine his agenda as the team's leader.

Lou took over a dumpster fire and got us in the playoffs quicker than anyone internally or externally expected. The 2017 team gave the Stanley Cup contender Washington Capitals all they could handle.

The 2018 team built on that and set a franchise record for points. They did lose in the playoffs to Boston, but they were still finding their playoff identity and were growing as a group. Lots of reason to be optimistic about the future at that point. For some unexplained reason Lou is canned.

Dubas took over for 2018-19, inherited amazing young players who were still getting better, and was gifted a #1 C in free agency (a rare occurrence in the modern NHL). He makes radical moves in net and other places and the team goes backward, including losing to Boston yet again in the playoffs. Through natural progression you would expect the team should be in the 2nd round.

In the meantime, Lou takes over another dumpster fire, one that was expected to be a bottom five team, makes some critical moves and they have a successful playoff run.

This past summer comes a series of moves by Dubas that drastically alters the team and manages to cost us high end picks and lose all cap flexibility we built up by having young stars. We remove arguably the best coach in a generation, and now we're a bubble playoff team fighting just to get into the dance and likely facing at best another 1st round exit.

So yeah, Lou accomplished a lot here. I just wish he was given the chance to finish the job and build out the team in his vision instead of turning it over to a kid who has no NHL success or experience.

Lou was essentially given one year to progress in the playoffs, he didn't, so he was removed.

Dubas took over and didn't get past the playoffs in year one, and likely won't pass the first round in year two. That's where Lou was fired. Now, it's not even fair to compare the two, because Dubas' started with a team coming off a franchise record in points and Lou started with a team in the basement. See the difference? Why should Dubas get 4-5 years when he's starting at the 50 yard line and Lou started by in his own end zone?

And what happens if Dubas doesn't even make the playoffs this year? Surely then he should be fired, no?
 

Dekes For Days

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Dubas gave AM 11.634M x 5 for putting up 205 points in his first three full seasons. Barzal has up 207, so we know what Dubas would pay him.
No, you don't know what Dubas would pay him. Contracts aren't based on raw accumulated points, including during time periods that came after the signing. Dubas gave Matthews his contract for being one of the best players at time of signing his post-ELC contract in the entire cap era; something which Barzal has not been.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

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No, you don't know what Dubas would pay him. Contracts aren't based on raw accumulated points, including during time periods that came after the signing. Dubas gave Matthews his contract for being one of the best players at time of signing his post-ELC contract in the entire cap era; something which Barzal has not been.
He is just laying the groundwork to praise Lou for signing a vastly inferior player to a cheaper contract
 

LeafsNation75

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Dubas took over for 2018-19, inherited amazing young players who were still getting better, and was gifted a #1 C in free agency (a rare occurrence in the modern NHL). He makes radical moves in net and other places and the team goes backward, including losing to Boston yet again in the playoffs. Through natural progression you would expect the team should be in the 2nd round.
Dubas wasn't gifted Tavares and it was never a guarantee he was going to sign in Toronto. So please don't talk like those Islanders fans who claim Tavares was coming to the Maple Leafs no matter what and how Dubas shouldn't get any credit for signing him.

Also they lost to Boston because of Mike Babcock's coaching decisions since he refused to change his way of thinking. Having Zach Hyman taking a short handed faceoff playing on a torn ACL against Patrice Bergeron which he lost and seconds later Brad Marchand ties Game 6 at 1-1.
 

LeafsNation75

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He is just laying the groundwork to praise Lou for signing a vastly inferior player to a cheaper contract
Lou already gave Jean-Gabriel Pageau a 6 year extension worth $5 million AAV and his career high in points in a season is 43. Plus in the first two years he has a NTC and the final four years he has a Modified NTC.
 
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