Analytics data proving defensemen perform better on their "proper" side?

[seventieslord]

I don't wade into here very often but I have become interested in the question of just how important it is for a defenseman to play on their proper side. As a Leafs fan, there's a constant discussion about how the team needs two RHD so badly, but part of me thinks that this is just a holdover mindset from the Babcock era, because he was notorious for insisting on RHD playing the right side.

For the most part, defensemen make the NHL on merit, and about 2/3 of them are LHD. If everyone truly agreed that you needed a RHD to play the right side, then there would be approximately a 50/50 split in the NHL, and some "better" LHD would be on the outside looking in, in favour of lesser RHDs. But for the most part, that does not appear to be the case. The current split that exists suggests that there are plenty of LHD playing the right side and succeeding in the NHL.

So, is there any actual data that suggests over the long run that a defenseman is better off playing his own side? Perhaps things like keeping the puck in the offensive zone, their ability to generate shots for, prevent shots against, completed passes, shots that hit the net compared to miss the net, etc.

....or is this completely about coaching preferences and the eye test and it can't be verified with any data?

Click to read more...

 

[wintersej]

Some players self report they are comfortable some don’t. The problem is that the sample will mostly be of the guys that are the best at playing their off side.

 

[IceColdBear]

It's mostly about handling the puck on your backhand imo.

When you play the side that isn't your "proper" side, most of the passes you receive will be on your backhand, and you'll have to make a lot more passes and plays with your back hand.

When a forward is barreling down on you on the forecheck and you don't have much time, most people are less comfortable making a play on their backhand.

Some guys are fine with that, others aren't. I don't know anything about the analytics, it would be interesting to see.

It does have the benefit of opening you up to create more one-timers in the offensive zone, though. I would guess D who play the off-side score more goals than those who play the "proper" side, but might have a little more trouble with making a good first pass for a zone exit.

As wintersej said though, analytics might not be a good indicator because those who play on the "wrong" side are probably the ones who have proven they can do it.

 

[Henkka]

I once did a small study of Detroit defencemen, when I had some game log of full season. There all Kyle Quincey, Jonathan Ericsson or Brendan Smith played on the right side, and then they had also games on left side. All guys are lefties.

Every one of them had more giweaways, when playing off-side vs. their averages on proper side.

It has also matched with eye-test with all hockey defencemen any level I watch.

 

[Breakers]

Babcock was so strict with that rule

that's why Dan Hamhuis was on Team Canada in 2014

 

[boredmale]

I always felt with nothing backing me up that playing your offside could have advantages in the offensive zone but hurts you in the defensive zone.

From an Islanders perspective, it was night and day watching Dobson playing left side(his off hand position) and right side(his normal position). I even noticed it watching him in the Memorial Cup last year(any mistake he made was on his off hand side)

 

[Jester9881]

It's easier to play defense when you're on the "proper" side because you can cover more of the center part of the ice with your stick and it's easier to play the puck off the boards (on your forehand). Playing your opposite side (off wing), you can better protect the puck on offense, and you're in a better shooting position in the offensive zone. This is why you often see players play the opposite side on the PP. Think Ovechkin (RH shot) parking in the LH circle firing off one timers.

 

[Micklebot]

I read a thing on this a while back; the site it was on seems dead now so i had to use the internet archive, but here it is.

https://web.archive.org/web/2017041...discussion-of-theory-and-an-empirical-review/

There are several practical applications for the findings of this study. First, the finding that no overall difference exists supports a paradigm shift within hockey training. Playing on one’s backhand (i.e., playing off hand) is generally recognized as being more difficult, yet by increasing off-hand training and playing opportunities it can be expected that a change would begin to be seen: the off hand would begin to be the favored play. Coaches should consider playing defensemen off-handed, to gain significant advantage in the offensive zone; the advantage of the off-handed one-timer is already widely acknowledged and exploited in many power plays (USA Hockey, 2003). However, the significant difference with off-handed blue line puck containment was an unanticipated outcome.
The study’s results should strongly urge coaches to play defensemen off-handed, even when a team lacks numerical advantage in terms of players on the ice. The inconclusive data for the defensive zone may, however, engender a certain reluctance to play defensemen on their opposite hands; in such cases, coaches should consider having defensemen switch sides as they move up the ice, in order to maximize the offensive attack. Overall, the data support the idea of changing the training regimes youth hockey participants in the United States pursue, in favor of off-handed defensive play improving not only individual skills but offensive power. An interesting follow-on study would be an analysis of players with predominately off-hand play experience during their careers, or of players trained according to other paradigms (i.e., European players).

 

[archangel2]

This falls under the NO SHIT really category

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

It's mostly about handling the puck on your backhand imo.

When you play the side that isn't your "proper" side, most of the passes you receive will be on your backhand, and you'll have to make a lot more passes and plays with your back hand.

When a forward is barreling down on you on the forecheck and you don't have much time, most people are less comfortable making a play on their backhand.

Some guys are fine with that, others aren't. I don't know anything about the analytics, it would be interesting to see.

It does have the benefit of opening you up to create more one-timers in the offensive zone, though. I would guess D who play the off-side score more goals than those who play the "proper" side, but might have a little more trouble with making a good first pass for a zone exit.

As wintersej said though, analytics might not be a good indicator because those who play on the "wrong" side are probably the ones who have proven they can do it.

Rangers had a couple of seasons where they would plug anybody on their off hand to get off quick shots from closer in than the blue line and those D would have career years. Kevin Klein & Nick Holden.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I think the first poster nailed it. An incredibly small and varying sample size will be biased towards the players that can do it well. It's really not a question that can be answered analytically or statistically.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

This falls under the NO SHIT really category

Well...

If it truly is "no shit", then analytics should bear that out as well.

Also, there are a surprising number of once-"oh shit" things that are not actually true.

 

[abo9]

I read a thing on this a while back; the site it was on seems dead now so i had to use the internet archive, but here it is.

https://web.archive.org/web/2017041...discussion-of-theory-and-an-empirical-review/

Nice find. I always wondered why criss-crossing strategies like those are not more widely used. I guess because it's fine when going in the offensive zone, but it's more difficult to perform safely on the way back?

Strangely as a kid I always preferred playing off-handed. Though, my "skater" career was really short as I became a goalie after 2 years

 

[violaswallet]

I think we might be able to do natural experiments where players switch sides due to trades or injuries?

 

[Dingo]

I once did a small study of Detroit defencemen, when I had some game log of full season. There all Kyle Quincey, Jonathan Ericsson or Brendan Smith played on the right side, and then they had also games on left side. All guys are lefties.

Every one of them had more giweaways, when playing off-side vs. their averages on proper side.

It has also matched with eye-test with all hockey defencemen any level I watch.

Side note - Smith had the most giveaways...... riiiight?

 

[BruinDust]

Entirely depends on the player.

 

[57special]

Playing on the offside is an advantage when shooting in the Ozone, a disadvantage when fielding a rimmed puck, a disadvantage when going D to D in all zones. Personally, i was always bad at defending a fast power move to the outside on a line rush at my "proper' side, because you have to reach across your body, and my footspeed was less than blazing. On the offside, my stick was already there, and i could push the attacker to the middle, which is where I liked them, as my game was open ice hits across the middle.

 

[KevFu]

So we need the US producing more defensemen so there's an equal number of RHD and LHD in the game.


It's really amusing to me how like 65% of Canadians shoot left, and 65% of Americans shoot right.

I'm guessing it's based on "First Sport" choice. Hockey in Canada, duh, they just teach you to shoot left from the time you're a toddler.
Canada has the highest percentage of lefty golf swingers in the world. Because all those golfers probably played hockey first and then swung a golf club the same way.

Americans generally start with tee ball as kids, and right handed kids swing with the left arm leading and right arm trailing. So when they try hockey, the righty shot feels more natural. When we'd play street hockey, it was funny because whomever was in goal would always just use their baseball glove as the trapper; and so we'd all be right shots holding the goalie stick on the off side. None of us could move the puck at all.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

If you found 2 dmen that were equal across the board except one shot left and the other right, the right handed dman would hold more value.

The reason teams don't opt for lesser, but right handed dmen is because Canada, which produces most defensemen, usually has a shortage of RHD forcing LHD to play on their offside their entire career.

Basically, when some LHD make it to the NHL at, let's say age 20 they've been playing their offside for anywhere from 10 to 15 years already.

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Dion Phaneuf even worse when he was forced to play on the left side ?

 

[SotasicA]

John Scott just talked about this in his podcast. He said you have to be comfortable receiving and making passes on your backhand when playing on your wrong side, and anybody who has played can verify that.

But in Minnesota he played D with Marc-Andre Bergeron who is a lefty on the right side, and Bergeron was a player who would insist on receiving passes on his forehand. Bergeron would turn backwards just to receive a pass, and obviously that meant he didn't see the opposing players approaching. Every few games he would get destroyed by a forechecker he never saw coming.

Good thing he had Scott as his d-partner.

Obviously most lefties prefer not to be on their wrong side, and don't have to. It's the ones who are most comfortable that get that task.

So any data collected about this would not be an accurate representation of an average NHLer playing the wrong side. For actual comparison, you'd need to put righties on the left side and non-comfortable lefties on the right just as much. Now the only ones playing their off side are the so-called "experts" at it.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

So we need the US producing more defensemen so there's an equal number of RHD and LHD in the game.


It's really amusing to me how like 65% of Canadians shoot left, and 65% of Americans shoot right.

I'm guessing it's based on "First Sport" choice. Hockey in Canada, duh, they just teach you to shoot left from the time you're a toddler.
Canada has the highest percentage of lefty golf swingers in the world. Because all those golfers probably played hockey first and then swung a golf club the same way.

Americans generally start with tee ball as kids, and right handed kids swing with the left arm leading and right arm trailing. So when they try hockey, the righty shot feels more natural. When we'd play street hockey, it was funny because whomever was in goal would always just use their baseball glove as the trapper; and so we'd all be right shots holding the goalie stick on the off side. None of us could move the puck at all.

Huh, interesting. I started with teeball as a Canadian. But I shoot left with a hockey stick. I did learn golf before I learned hockey and learned golf left handed from my dad who played hockey at a young age (thus probably left).

 

[Filthy Dangles]

John Scott just talked about this in his podcast. He said you have to be comfortable receiving and making passes on your backhand when playing on your wrong side, and anybody who has played can verify that.

But in Minnesota he played D with Marc-Andre Bergeron who is a lefty on the right side, and Bergeron was a player who would insist on receiving passes on his forehand. Bergeron would turn backwards just to receive a pass, and obviously that meant he didn't see the opposing players approaching. Every few games he would get destroyed by a forechecker he never saw coming.

Good thing he had Scott as his d-partner.

Obviously most lefties prefer not to be on their wrong side, and don't have to. It's the ones who are most comfortable that get that task.

So any data collected about this would not be an accurate representation of an average NHLer playing the wrong side. For actual comparison, you'd need to put righties on the left side and non-comfortable lefties on the right just as much. Now the only ones playing their off side are the so-called "experts" at it.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'turn backwards' but most defenseman who play the wrong side don't catch passes on the backhand of their blade. What they do is have to 'open up' more to receive a D to D pass though and face their partner. It's not that big of a deal, it's often overstated imo. They might have a fraction of a second less time then someone on their proper side who can keep his shoulders square to the play ahead and catch the pass across his body.