Speculation: Anaheim Ducks Roster Discussion Part IV

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Anaheim4ever

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I'd be grateful if he put some effort into fore checking and not waiting for the puck to come to him. He's a professional athlete with all the skill in the world. Wouldn't surprise me if he was one of our players mentioned that is more focused on his model girlfriend and playing video games. He could be soooo good if he had the heart/drive/effort every shift.
I would bet that Rakell definitely is one.
He was on pace for only 20 goals in a 82 game season, compare that to Henrique who would have had 30+ goals in a 82 game season.
Henrique was also playing a more premium position.
 
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Just because he can put up 40ish points without an elite center, doesn’t negate the fact he is a passenger that cant drive the play.

I'd be grateful if he put some effort into fore checking and not waiting for the puck to come to him. He's a professional athlete with all the skill in the world. Wouldn't surprise me if he was one of our players mentioned that is more focused on his model girlfriend and playing video games. He could be soooo good if he had the heart/drive/effort every shift.

Alexei Kovalev was someone who needed an elite center later on but he still put up points when he was needed to.

a nearly 50-60 point player is someone I want on my team - regardless if you two are calling him a 'passenger'

I swear people shit on these players way too much lol.
 

Paul4587

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Alexei Kovalev was someone who needed an elite center later on but he still put up points when he was needed to.

a nearly 50-60 point player is someone I want on my team - regardless if you two are calling him a 'passenger'

I swear people shit on these players way too much lol.

If you just look at it in simple terms then yeah a 50 point player is someone you want on your team (although given how much opportunity he’s had the past two years his production is incredibly disappointing). But when you factor in that he’s not far out from free agency, has a huge amount of value because of his cap hit and that he provides absolutely nothing when not scoring then you really need to try and capitalize on his value now.
 

Bergey37

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As soon as you trade Rakell for picks and prospects - I don’t care if you get 5 or 6 quarters for your dollar - you are telling the rest of the team that there’s no point in trying to win and seriously impairing the development of our own kids. You trade him for Nylander and you’re telling them you are serious about getting better, and everyone is motivated.

if Rakell has serious attitude issues (as I suspect was the case with Montour), Bob WILL move him for what he can get; and the reason will be made clear in the room, regardless of what is said in public.
 

bsu

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As soon as you trade Rakell for picks and prospects - I don’t care if you get 5 or 6 quarters for your dollar - you are telling the rest of the team that there’s no point in trying to win and seriously impairing the development of our own kids. You trade him for Nylander and you’re telling them you are serious about getting better, and everyone is motivated.

if Rakell has serious attitude issues (as I suspect was the case with Montour), Bob WILL move him for what he can get; and the reason will be made clear in the room, regardless of what is said in public.
Disagree if that's the case keep everyone and then into the Minnesota wild
 

The Duck Knight

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Then explain to the Samueli’s why being Minnesota (as if that were a given, which it’s not) is worse than being Edmonton or Buffalo, especially in this market.

What is the goal? To win a Cup? Or to be good enough to have a chance for 3 home playoff games for ticket sales?

Being bad for a few years doesn't automatically mean you end up the Sabres or the Oilers. Unless you also assume you have a GM who has no clue what he's doing. Even then I'd argue a player like McDavid would do more to drive fans to the arena than a mediocre team that either just misses or just makes the playoffs each year and does no real damage.
 

Anaheim4ever

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I'd rather the Ducks be like the 2010s Blackhawks, 2010s Penguins, 2010s Capitals or 2010s Lightning than the Minnesota Wild, Buffalo Sabres and Edmonton Oilers,
Pretty sure Blackhawks, Penguins, Bruins, Capitals and Lightning got some of their core by tanking.
Hawks tanked for Kane & Toews, Penguins tanked for Crosby and Malkin, Capitals tanked for Ovi & Backstrom, Lightning tanked for Stamkos and Hedman.

Even the Bruins did tank to get Kessel as the 5th overall pick in 2006, which later is traded for the #2 pick Seguin in 2010.
The Bruins success is mainly for hitting HRs in drafting Bergeron in the 2nd round of 2003 & Kreji in the 2nd round in 2004.
Also hitting a HR with Pastrnk as 25th overall pick in 2014 has really helped them.
I doubt many teams will have the success of having their 2nd round picks in back to back drafts being players in the caliber of Bergeron and Kreji, its unrealistic to hope for that kind of miracle.
 

Kalv

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Tanking does not automatically mean a successful rebuild. While I have confidence in our staff, look at the Red Wings this year, lol.
And tanking is not that easy. There is a risk of a bad environment, reported multiple times from Edmonton how they were lacking focus and it certainly did made a negative impact to some of their players.

If we trade Rakell I think we should still be fine (but with less offense), but if we trade Manson we decrease the ''quality of the room''. In this sense I have full trust in Bob, he has always been great to acknowledge these things.
 

WhatTheDuck

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Tanking does not automatically mean a successful rebuild. While I have confidence in our staff, look at the Red Wings this year, lol.
And tanking is not that easy. There is a risk of a bad environment, reported multiple times from Edmonton how they were lacking focus and it certainly did made a negative impact to some of their players.

If we trade Rakell I think we should still be fine (but with less offense), but if we trade Manson we decrease the ''quality of the room''. In this sense I have full trust in Bob, he has always been great to acknowledge these things.

A lot of the teams who go full tank mode struggle to truly contend because they are too reliant on young offensive players and don't find the goaltending or proper balance with veterans. I think if we don't keep Gibson, Lindholm and Silf, in all likelihood we'll find ourselves sorely lacking their presence for years to come.
 
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Trojans86

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A lot of the teams who go full tank mode struggle to truly contend because they are too reliant on young offensive players and don't find the goaltending or proper balance with veterans. I think if we don't keep Gibson, Lindholm and Silf, in all likelihood we'll find ourselves sorely lacking their presence for years to come.
Most teams that fail after tanking do so because they whiffed on picks. Even Edmonton. They have some studs but they don't have nearly the quality of defensemen. Teams that are really contending to win the cup have a stud d and usually 3 total top pair defensemen. Edmonton isn't close to that. A good core requires like 4 or 5 key pieces, not one or two. Right now we have Gibson and Lindholm. Hopefully after next years draft we have 4 or 5 and enough to build around but you never know, Steel, Terry and Zegras could be middle 6 forwards and in that case we don't have nearly the talent to build around and rebuild is going to take longer.
 

Static

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What is the goal? To win a Cup? Or to be good enough to have a chance for 3 home playoff games for ticket sales?

Being bad for a few years doesn't automatically mean you end up the Sabres or the Oilers. Unless you also assume you have a GM who has no clue what he's doing. Even then I'd argue a player like McDavid would do more to drive fans to the arena than a mediocre team that either just misses or just makes the playoffs each year and does no real damage.
Being bad for multiple years could mean worse than the oilers or the sabres, it could mean the coyotes.
 
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Static

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Most teams that fail after tanking do so because they whiffed on picks. Even Edmonton. They have some studs but they don't have nearly the quality of defensemen. Teams that are really contending to win the cup have a stud d and usually 3 total top pair defensemen. Edmonton isn't close to that. A good core requires like 4 or 5 key pieces, not one or two. Right now we have Gibson and Lindholm. Hopefully after next years draft we have 4 or 5 and enough to build around but you never know, Steel, Terry and Zegras could be middle 6 forwards and in that case we don't have nearly the talent to build around and rebuild is going to take longer.
You don't know if they whiffed on picks or if they failed to develop them because the environment became so accustomed to losing. The lines get blurred really quickly and it takes a very long time to get out of that.

Teams need other players to insulate prospects. Rakell is gone and then what? Comtois first line LW? Max Jones? And then their confidence tanks and they develop bad habits because they are in a role they shouldn't be in? This was the same argument with keeping silf. Someone needs to take the assignments that the kids aren't ready for, or we significantly raise the risk of ruining them.
 

Trojans86

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You don't know if they whiffed on picks or if they failed to develop them because the environment became so accustomed to losing. The lines get blurred really quickly and it takes a very long time to get out of that.

Teams need other players to insulate prospects. Rakell is gone and then what? Comtois first line LW? Max Jones? And then their confidence tanks and they develop bad habits because they are in a role they shouldn't be in? This was the same argument with keeping silf. Someone needs to take the assignments that the kids aren't ready for, or we significantly raise the risk of ruining them.
I'd arguing it is primarily drafting, which is why every organization has a huge range of draft success despite the same development program. It is not like they are ignoring some prospcts development and focusing on other. Generally, some organizations are better than others, yes. But drafting success creates more variability.
 

Static

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I'd arguing it is primarily drafting, which is why every organization has a huge range of draft success despite the same development program. It is not like they are ignoring some prospcts development and focusing on other. Generally, some organizations are better than others, yes. But drafting success creates more variability.
Draft success is a lot about drafting players who have the talent and drive to get themselves to the NHL. Development has a lot to do with how those guys adjust to the NHL game to be successful. Edmonton and buffalo have drafted plenty of NHL caliber players who stalled majorly in the NHL because they were not put in positions to succeed.

Put many of their draft "busts" on other teams and I would bet big, big money that they would be completely different players.
 

Trojans86

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While I agree with you that opportunity and putting them in the right position is important and it helps, I still contend that the most important thing is draft success (which is also partially luck). The future stars in the league start standing out right away. Even before they really get into the ahl/nhl. Very rarely do the future top liners and top pairing d come in and look just average.
 

Duck Off

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Again you can’t tank much more than we did last year without trading Gibson.

trading Rakell alone for futures doesn’t signal the team that they don’t care about winning. Trading Rakell, Manson, and Rico? Sure, but just Rakell? Nah. Especially when we’d likely add another winger in FA (though not as good as Rakell)
 

Paul4587

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I’m on the trade Rakell boat but on the assumption they get someone in FA to play in the top 6. there are going to be plenty of Good, cheap options this offseason for us to sign.
 
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As soon as you trade Rakell for picks and prospects - I don’t care if you get 5 or 6 quarters for your dollar - you are telling the rest of the team that there’s no point in trying to win and seriously impairing the development of our own kids. You trade him for Nylander and you’re telling them you are serious about getting better, and everyone is motivated.

if Rakell has serious attitude issues (as I suspect was the case with Montour), Bob WILL move him for what he can get; and the reason will be made clear in the room, regardless of what is said in public.
The players are well aware of the state of the team they all know this is a rebuild. There isn't going to be some mutiny among the players. You cant just keep guys for the sake of it
 

Duck Off

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I’m on the trade Rakell boat but on the assumption they get someone in FA to play in the top 6. there are going to be plenty of Good, cheap options this offseason for us to sign.

same. Look what Coleman and Kapanen returned. I mean we’ve got to at least consider hit. Pick up Hoffman as a UFA to replace him.
 
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