Proposal: An off-the-wall solution to our need for a RHD

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Babcock would probably cry of joy if the Leafs were able to acquire Weber.

It's a tricky player to acquire. From a rival team in our division and the GM that acquired him has an ego, so trading him for anything less than an overpayment for the price he paid to acquire him is not going to happen. His contract isn't really that great due to the term either. If Bergevin was fired, maybe there would have been a way to make it work but I just don't see it.

So I'm not sure.

I want to leave Babcock out of an GM decisions. 6.25m for Marleau and now 7.8m for Weber. There should be better ways to spend the money. I love the argument so many have given for acquiring Weber,...he's going to retire soon anyway. So maybe just as the Leafs get good, he's gone through retirement or poorer play and the young assets traded to acquire him are no longer Leafs.

 

[Fogelhund]

sorry but the structuring means nothing, it's the AAV that is critical which is constant

The Leafs could comfortably afford to spend 100m a year on player salaries, the cap prevents that

Weber might be of interest if the Habs retain 50%, which all of us know is a very low likelyhood

Sorry, the structuring is critical in this case. It's specifically designed as a retirement contract, with little intent of playing out the contract when he's to be paid $1mil, or $3mil.

When he retires, the AAV goes to ZERO. Practically speaking, it's a four year, maybe five year contract at the most.

So, you are only interested in Weber, at a cap hit of $3.9 million, for four to five years? He is most certainly worth the $7.8, and there is a very real chance that the Leafs may offer $8 mil to Carlson this year for seven years.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Shea Weber @ 1.8 Mil Retained
for
Jake Gardiner, Andreas Johnsson, Calle Rosen, 1st 2018 & 2nd 2019

then...

Sign Calvin De Haan 2 years x 3.5 million
Sign John Tavares 7 years x 9.5 million

HYMAN - MATTHEWS - MARNER
KAPANEN - TAVARES - NYLANDER
MARLEAU - - - KADRI - - - BROWN
MARTIN - - GAUTHIER - - LEIVO

RIELLY - - - - WEBER
DE HAAN - - ZAITSEV
DERMOTT - HAINSEY

Top 9 Forwards and Defence upgraded significantly, 4th line downgraded allowing Babcock to play them 5ish mins a night to give more ice time to Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander and Kadri

If we don't get De Haan, put Dermott in his spot and bring up Borgman

 

[Menzinger]

I’d take Weber if the Habs were to retain say 2 million or so.

 

[bluumax]

Shea Weber @ 1.8 Mil Retained
for
Jake Gardiner, Andreas Johnsson, Calle Rosen, 1st 2018 & 2nd 2019

I actually think thats a slight overpay, considering the news that Habs management have instructed Bergevin to acquire picks and prospects.
I think you could remove Johnsson and still get it done.

 

[The Magic Man]

I'd take Weber. But I've always found a need for guys like him or Chara. Big Z was a huge part in shutting down Matthews in the playoffs.

Having said that, if the rumours have even a sniff of truth to them, that Dubas was looking into Faulk and OEL, that tells me that a Weber isn't high on their priority. They have skating as a need for their top 4. I would bet they justify the need for grit and fear in their D with another Polak for the bottom pair, instead of breaking the bank on it for the top pairing.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

What is Leafs fans fascination with RHDs and thinking that one player is the solution to the team.
Karlsson, except for one playoff run two seasons ago, the Sens have been average at best.
Doughty, two Cups previously, but now can't get his team in the playoffs or even past round one
Weber, little team success in Nashville or Montreal.

And then I see other names like OEL and Faulk as seen as difference makers. Geez, I know this is trading site but the idea is to improve the team not just trading.

 

[Advanced stats]

Shea Weber @ 1.8 Mil Retained
for
Jake Gardiner, Andreas Johnsson, Calle Rosen, 1st 2018 & 2nd 2019

Oooof.
You realize he's not as good as he once was? You really don't want to be picking up thsy contact through the back end of it. He'll be 33 to start the season and being paid forever. Definitely not giving up that package.

 

[member 300185]

Weber is not what he used to be. He can hit and shoot. It ends there... no thanks.

Ok. So he can play good.

Hitting and shooting are very important skills and he can do both of them.

Lets not understate this. He can hit like a train and shoot like a rocket. He has a bomb from the point. He is tough in his own end especially and has no problems with pivoting or lateral movement. Weber is not a rushing D man. He never was. His skating will be absolutely good enough for this team.

All that said, I dont want to give up any of the big 3 for him. Also no Rielly, Lilly, Dermott. Everyone else is fair game.

To Montreal: Kadri, 25th overall, Bracco, Nielson, 7th rounder in 2020 (Edmonton), rights to JVR and Bozak if the trade is done before the deadline.

To Toronto: Weber, 2 mil retained.

 

[ShaneFalco]

LOVE to have Weber on this team but the contract scares me and we've seen too many guys get broken down in their later years
Having said that, others have broken down how his contract is structured....... hmmmmmm....

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I've always thought Weber to be overrated, so I'm not keen on such a move. Don't get me wrong, I know he would be a massive addition and help the team immensely. But if the Leafs are going to be paying big money and expending quality assets to acquire a top flight RHD, I'd rather it be on Karlsson or Subban.

 

[-DeMo-]

I'd take Weber. But I've always found a need for guys like him or Chara. Big Z was a huge part in shutting down Matthews in the playoffs.

Having said that, if the rumours have even a sniff of truth to them, that Dubas was looking into Faulk and OEL, that tells me that a Weber isn't high on their priority. They have skating as a need for their top 4. I would bet they justify the need for grit and fear in their D with another Polak for the bottom pair, instead of breaking the bank on it for the top pairing.

those are 2 players that have been rumored to be available in trade so if Dubas isn't looking into those 2 he's not doing his job, it doesn't mean that he would have no interest in Weber.

 

[therealkoho]

Sorry, the structuring is critical in this case. It's specifically designed as a retirement contract, with little intent of playing out the contract when he's to be paid $1mil, or $3mil.

When he retires, the AAV goes to ZERO. Practically speaking, it's a four year, maybe five year contract at the most.

So, you are only interested in Weber, at a cap hit of $3.9 million, for four to five years? He is most certainly worth the $7.8, and there is a very real chance that the Leafs may offer $8 mil to Carlson this year for seven years.

Shea Weber - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

AAV is not salary, it is the charge the team carries against it's cap

Weber's salary is 1m on the last year of his contract in 2025/26 his AAV stays at $7,857,143

so in essence if the Canadiens were to retain 50% they would pay Weber 500k as would the Leafs in the last year

the AAV is split between the two teams, with each having to carry a "cap hit" of 3,928,571.50

so at 3.9 the Leafs would be OK after four or five years, the problem being the contract becomes dead space when Weber's skill set fades, which may already be in decline, and he may want to play the contract out, Nashville would certainly want him to, cause they'd be in a world of hurt if he retired early

 

[Jthibault]

OK Guys, its a little mad, but hear me out;

All through this season and into the playoffs (where it has been emphasized even more imo) we have lacked both toughness and leadership from our defense group. I know there is an argument Mo has stepped up, that Hainsey and Polak give a good veteran presence etc but personally i think its not enough/not the qualities we are truly lacking.

We need that physical, dominant presence on the back end, the type of player who isn't just good in the room, but is also a big presence on the ice and play a big role.

look at the teams left playing- They all have great D cores, but they also have that one guy- Hedman, Chara, Letang, Carlson, Buff, Subban, Burns, Schmidt (maybe a stretch- not too familiar with Vegas); We lack that guy and i dont think Reilly will every be that guy.

So.... What about Shea Weber? with say 1.5-2m retained?

 

[Jthibault]

He would be awsome a leader we need.
Habs would never do it for us and who would u give to get him is the question?

 

[bluumax]

He would be awsome a leader we need.
Habs would never do it for us and who would u give to get him is the question?

I actually didn't mind the package posted above; Gardiner, Rosen a 1st in 18 and a 2nd in 19 i think would get us the job done no need to give up anything substantial. You're paying for the retention really.

People keep saying the contract is bad and hes old but that's kind of the point, the cost to acquire a top RHD in their prime on a good contract would break us. So leave Subban, Karlssson and Doughty and take a lower cost option while still upgrading.

And yeah the contracts bad..... thats why the term cap dump was invented, either he drops off, realizes its over and retires ore we spend a 2nd to ship him to Arizona, who will still suck in 5 years because they kept all of their assets and developed into a "winner"

 

[Jthibault]

I actually didn't mind the package posted above; Gardiner, Rosen a 1st in 18 and a 2nd in 19 i think would get us the job done no need to give up anything substantial. You're paying for the retention really.

People keep saying the contract is bad and hes old but that's kind of the point, the cost to acquire a top RHD in their prime on a good contract would break us. So leave Subban, Karlssson and Doughty and take a lower cost option while still upgrading.

And yeah the contracts bad..... thats why the term cap dump was invented, either he drops off, realizes its over and retires ore we spend a 2nd to ship him to Arizona, who will still suck in 5 years because they kept all of their assets and developed into a "winner"

Gardiner is a ufa no? I love the idea of getting him but realistically habs would not do it just out of pure spite

 

[Fogelhund]

Shea Weber - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

AAV is not salary, it is the charge the team carries against it's cap

Weber's salary is 1m on the last year of his contract in 2025/26 his AAV stays at $7,857,143

so in essence if the Canadiens were to retain 50% they would pay Weber 500k as would the Leafs in the last year

the AAV is split between the two teams, with each having to carry a "cap hit" of 3,928,571.50

so at 3.9 the Leafs would be OK after four or five years, the problem being the contract becomes dead space when Weber's skill set fades, which may already be in decline, and he may want to play the contract out, Nashville would certainly want him to, cause they'd be in a world of hurt if he retired early

What a bizarre post. I'm not certain what you are reading into my postings, or arguing about. I never mentioned salary.

I've simply suggested, that the structure of the deal is critical, as it's specifically designed to decrease the AAV in the early years, by extending the contract in years... but the whole premise is, he'll retire probably three years before the end of the contract. At that point, whomever has him on their team, will have an AAV of ZERO. Nashville will get killed with the clawbacks, but then who cares about them. He won't play the contract out... won't happen. Like you've said, Nashville might pay good assets, to not play him, but have him on their roster.

So, in reality, it's a four year contract... maybe five. If you think Weber's value is only $3.9, I'll agree to disagree, but I will say, to get them to withhold that much, is going to require a ransom in trades. As a UFA, Weber would easily get $7.8 for four years.... He's worth that Cap hit.

 

[rent free]

I actually think thats a slight overpay, considering the news that Habs management have instructed Bergevin to acquire picks and prospects.
I think you could remove Johnsson and still get it done.

remove Johnson and they laugh even harder than they would before. thats not even close to a slight overpay for weber whatsoever

 

[Menzinger]

LOVE to have Weber on this team but the contract scares me and we've seen too many guys get broken down in their later years
Having said that, others have broken down how his contract is structured....... hmmmmmm....

It’s definitely a gamble, but the cost to acquire him would definitely be a lot less than most other top pairing options.

I doubt the Hans are smart enough to trade him though, they’ll keep trying to tread water while Price is under contract. Here so screwed in the long term

 

[therealkoho]

What a bizarre post. I'm not certain what you are reading into my postings, or arguing about. I never mentioned salary.

I've simply suggested, that the structure of the deal is critical, as it's specifically designed to decrease the AAV in the early years, by extending the contract in years... but the whole premise is, he'll retire probably three years before the end of the contract. At that point, whomever has him on their team, will have an AAV of ZERO. Nashville will get killed with the clawbacks, but then who cares about them. He won't play the contract out... won't happen. Like you've said, Nashville might pay good assets, to not play him, but have him on their roster.

So, in reality, it's a four year contract... maybe five. If you think Weber's value is only $3.9, I'll agree to disagree, but I will say, to get them to withhold that much, is going to require a ransom in trades. As a UFA, Weber would easily get $7.8 for four years.... He's worth that Cap hit.

you're assuming quite a lot

you seem to be pretty sure "he'll probably retire," what if he doesn't? if he doesn't the Leafs get to hold the slippery end of the stick

have the Leafs not done enough of that kind of nonsensical wastes of money in the past to last the rest of our lives?