Proposal: An off-the-wall solution to our need for a RHD

[LeafingTheWay]

I just don’t see why you would think Montreal would want to trade away their only good D-Man. In fact, what makes you think they would even want a Gutless Player like Nylander to lead their team. He just chokes like a dog when it matters the most, similar to Price. Not good!

Might as well trade away Matthews and Andersen too then, since they choke like dogs when it matter the most.

 

[Duke16]

If Fabbro developes as expected, Ryan Ellis may become available in the next year or two.

 

[DontPanik]

Might as well trade away Matthews and Andersen too then, since they choke like dogs when it matter the most.

If that’s what you think will benefit the team...

 

[Leafs4life29]

I would add Nielsen as well just to make it fair

No Nielsen is still young and as long as Keffe is coaching the Marlies there is a very good chance that he can turn Nielsen around. Marincin and LoVerde instead.

 

[Leafs4life29]

Well of course, i could be suggesting a prime Bobby Orr and it'd be a no because hes left handed.

If we could get Bobby in his prime they can tie his hands behind his back fo half the game and I’m good with that trade as long as they take Gardiner we will throw in two first rounders this season and 2020 we need to have at least one in 3 years. CHEERS!

 

[Leafs4life29]

I like the idea of going after Myers from the jets.
Would a 1 for 1 with gardiner work?

Like that idea your in the right ballpark as they say but Give me Trouba instead and our first pairing is fixed for a long, long time. Trouba and Rielly would make an awesome pairing especially if Gardiner was part of the deal and to make it work sinc Gardiner is older we throw in our first pick and a prospect D if they like and now Nielsen is definitely in play or Carrick at most. This is where those picks and prospects would come in handy that the Leafs should have had right now if they made the right decision at the trad deadline and didn’t give all that up for Plekanec who only brought his turtleneck and no game, what a waste. Trouba would be a perfect solution to our D and one other thing this trade could have been made last off-season but Lou was listening, what does that have to do with getting a D man, is someone else figure it out for you and say “Hey Lou I have a D man for you and I need you to kinda give me nothing in return I want some time off after this season a year or two st the cottage would be nice how about you throw one of those in for me I’m going to need it after this trade since I won’t have a job”. Well is that we’re listening means ? Good riddance Lou, best of luck with the Islenders. Cheers.

 

[Leafs4life29]

Not sure about Weber but a Drew Doughty type is an absolute must for this team to go forward.

No we don’t need his contract, he is one hell of a D man everything you want in a D, he can score, make plays he’s a 200 ft player, great in his own end he hits and even drops the gloves if necessary, but his new contract will be $10 mill/yr+, I don’t know how high but it will get up there for sure. Both Drew and Karlsson are at $7.65 and $7.5 mill/yr respectively now and it will take over $10 mill to sign them and that’s the full 7 years if you wait for free agency and 8 if you trade for eithe one before and there goes the farm because that’s the deal it will take. So the Leafs need a top 4 RHD man but not one that will make you weaker in another area in the process because that simply doesn’t make sense. You have players that are going to be stars and you did it the right way you drafted, developed and now you keep them otherwise yup did all the hard work and someone else will get the fruits of your labour. Therefore you are making the same mistakes as the other Leaf management groups have done and you will just be repeating their mistakes and the results will be the same also. Therefore the cycle must stop here and continue with the Shanaplan, slow and steady, the kids did great and jumped ahead so they bought the team some time. Don’t get ahead of yourself, Cheers.

 

[Mess]

William Nylander (~$6.0 mil) for Rasmus Ristolainen ($5.4 mil) as the principles of a trade

For Leafs its

Morgan Rielly --- Rasmus Ristolainen top pairing
&

For Buffalo its

Alexander Nylander -- Jack Eichel -- William Nylander.

Win Win all around and everyone's cap hit are similar in the exchange.

 

[saltming]

No Nielsen is still young and as long as Keffe is coaching the Marlies there is a very good chance that he can turn Nielsen around. Marincin and LoVerde instead.

Interesting thing is I don't recall making the post you responded to so I don't know the context. It wouldn't be the first time HF has glitched and mis quoted me but I don't see Nielsen making this team. He has bad feet. His speed is good enough but his agility and edges won't get him on the leafs. Hopefully he can make it on another team. I was hopeful when we drafted him

Edit
Just went back and saw my post about Nielsen. We were joking around. Nothing serious but my view on Nielsen still stands

 

[saltming]

Like that idea your in the right ballpark as they say but Give me Trouba instead and our first pairing is fixed for a long, long time. Trouba and Rielly would make an awesome pairing especially if Gardiner was part of the deal and to make it work sinc Gardiner is older we throw in our first pick and a prospect D if they like and now Nielsen is definitely in play or Carrick at most. This is where those picks and prospects would come in handy that the Leafs should have had right now if they made the right decision at the trad deadline and didn’t give all that up for Plekanec who only brought his turtleneck and no game, what a waste. Trouba would be a perfect solution to our D and one other thing this trade could have been made last off-season but Lou was listening, what does that have to do with getting a D man, is someone else figure it out for you and say “Hey Lou I have a D man for you and I need you to kinda give me nothing in return I want some time off after this season a year or two st the cottage would be nice how about you throw one of those in for me I’m going to need it after this trade since I won’t have a job”. Well is that we’re listening means ? Good riddance Lou, best of luck with the Islenders. Cheers.

I like trouba but not the price. I know you have to give to get but I think Myers is very underrated and him beside Reilly would be a balanced pairing at a better cost.

 

[kyle n00bas]

Weber's a go-to guy in any situation, can still rack up about as many points as Rielly/Gardiner, suppresses shots better than anyone else on the team despite matching up against top lines and this past season is the first time he's missed a significant number of games due to injury in a decade. If he's "showing signs of slowing down" it isn't showing up in the results.

Yes his age and contract are not ideal, but I think that's precisely OP's point - that rather than a Nylander-for-Pesce type trade, we could (hypothetically) add a player who is otherwise the embodiment of what we need on defense at a reduced cost*. I'm not an expert with this stuff, but it doesn't strike me as being an unmanageable contract with some massive downside. If he retired we'd be off the hook; LTIR would also be a possibility, or maybe he could even turn out to be one of those guys who can play at a high level into his late 30's.

I don't think it's very likely to happen at all but I like it as an off-the-wall idea for a RHD.

* like sprdave mentioned, who knows how reduced that cost would be (if at all) when we'd be trading with a division rival, the GM who traded for him is still there, it'd be compounding an already controversial move, etc.

 

[bluumax]

Weber's a go-to guy in any situation, can still rack up about as many points as Rielly/Gardiner, suppresses shots better than anyone else on the team despite matching up against top lines and this past season is the first time he's missed a significant number of games due to injury in a decade. If he's "showing signs of slowing down" it isn't showing up in the results.

Yes his age and contract are not ideal, but I think that's precisely OP's point - that rather than a Nylander-for-Pesce type trade, we could (hypothetically) add a player who is otherwise the embodiment of what we need on defense at a reduced cost*. I'm not an expert with this stuff, but it doesn't strike me as being an unmanageable contract with some massive downside. If he retired we'd be off the hook; LTIR would also be a possibility, or maybe he could even turn out to be one of those guys who can play at a high level into his late 30's.

* like sprdave mentioned, who knows how reduced that cost would be (if at all) when we'd be trading with a division rival, the GM who traded for him is still there, it'd be compounding an already controversial move, etc.

It only took 5 pages and over a month... but someone got it.

My point was that whilst you have to pay to bring in an asset (he wouldn't cost nothing), Weber's value is significantly lower than some of the players people keep proposing round here- because of his contract, because of his age, because his teams a mess.
People here think they can give nothing and get everything. That all these contenders with a glut of talented young D are going to give them away for a marlie and a box of timbits- they're not.... you want Tanev?, Trouba?, Pesce?, Hanafin? etc, then get ready to pay with your f***ing soul and Nylander.

 

[nuck]

OK Guys, its a little mad, but hear me out;

All through this season and into the playoffs (where it has been emphasized even more imo) we have lacked both toughness and leadership from our defense group. I know there is an argument Mo has stepped up, that Hainsey and Polak give a good veteran presence etc but personally i think its not enough/not the qualities we are truly lacking.

We need that physical, dominant presence on the back end, the type of player who isn't just good in the room, but is also a big presence on the ice and play a big role.

look at the teams left playing- They all have great D cores, but they also have that one guy- Hedman, Chara, Letang, Carlson, Buff, Subban, Burns, Schmidt (maybe a stretch- not too familiar with Vegas); We lack that guy and i dont think Reilly will every be that guy.

So.... What about Shea Weber? with say 1.5-2m retained?

$2M retained isn't enough. He is good value for a couple of years but is signed till he is 40. Dummest contract of the recent era, and maybe the worst trade. At 50% retained you could live with it if they had no other retention on the books. He will probably be a complete pylon the last 4 years of the deal.

It only really works if he retires early and the Preds get hammered with the cap recapture but he is making $3M as late as the 37 year old season so no guarantee he goes before his first $1M salary year. He is probably worth $6M for the next four years, but his cap hit is almost $8M, and if the Habs are eating a bunch of salary they are going to want some actual value back.

If he plays great for the next 5 years, ages well, and then retires it would be a clear win, but if he slows down a bit, gets injured a bit then you are hamstrung by the cap hit and in a couple of years he would be untradeable under any circumstance. With the risks attached I can't see how it would work for both teams to be happy.

 

[Leafs4life29]

It needs to be at the right price. If it's not, you do more harm than good. People get way too caught up in their ideas of team composition that they lose sight of the entire picture.

Bargain contracts are the absolute most important asset to successful teams. The main goal this offseason should be getting the big 3 on them.

Washington just won the cup not Boston, Tampa or anyone else who went all in at the deadline. The Capitals acquired a D man that Chicago wasn’t hardly using for a 3rd and that’s it. Mostly because they had no cap space, but my point is that maybe it was the best way to go, everyone who was there all year gelled together not just in the last month or so. The D man’s name is Kempny I know everyone is saying WHO, just like Me I did didn’t know who he was and he played the whole time since they got him as Carlson’s partner agains top lines everything Jhon did so did Kempny and it worked perfectly. Carlson ended up with 20 points in 24 playoff games not bad for a partner that only cost the Capitals a 3rd round pick. Cheers

 

[saltming]

It only took 5 pages and over a month... but someone got it.

My point was that whilst you have to pay to bring in an asset (he wouldn't cost nothing), Weber's value is significantly lower than some of the players people keep proposing round here- because of his contract, because of his age, because his teams a mess.
People here think they can give nothing and get everything. That all these contenders with a glut of talented young D are going to give them away for a marlie and a box of timbits- they're not.... you want Tanev?, Trouba?, Pesce?, Hanafin? etc, then get ready to pay with your ****ing soul and Nylander.

Not speaking for everyone but my soul is pretty worn out. Or is that my sole?

Seriously though I get what you're saying but I'm not thrilled with Weber for us. Too late in his career. He's not the beast he was and he can't skate with this group now.
My thought is still to target Myers. He can skate, good age and he seems to have finally got his game down.
Paired with Reilly and I think they will complement and support each other beautifully.

 

[IBeL34f]

Not speaking for everyone but my soul is pretty worn out. Or is that my sole?

Seriously though I get what you're saying but I'm not thrilled with Weber for us. Too late in his career. He's not the beast he was and he can't skate with this group now.
My thought is still to target Myers. He can skate, good age and he seems to have finally got his game down.
Paired with Reilly and I think they will complement and support each other beautifully.

If it's rubber, it's 'soul'

 

[saltming]

If it's rubber, it's 'soul'

And leather soul?

 

[ACC1224]

It only took 5 pages and over a month... but someone got it.

My point was that whilst you have to pay to bring in an asset (he wouldn't cost nothing), Weber's value is significantly lower than some of the players people keep proposing round here- because of his contract, because of his age, because his teams a mess.
People here think they can give nothing and get everything. That all these contenders with a glut of talented young D are going to give them away for a marlie and a box of timbits- they're not.... you want Tanev?, Trouba?, Pesce?, Hanafin? etc, then get ready to pay with your ****ing soul and Nylander.

You're following the wrong posters if that's the impression you have.

 

[IBeL34f]

And leather soul?

I'd ask The Beatles, but there's only 2 of them left, and Paul hasn't been returning my calls.

 

[ACC1224]

I'd ask The Beatles, but there's only 2 of them left, and Paul hasn't been returning my calls.

Never trust a Scouser.

 

[Leafs4life29]

It only took 5 pages and over a month... but someone got it.

My point was that whilst you have to pay to bring in an asset (he wouldn't cost nothing), Weber's value is significantly lower than some of the players people keep proposing round here- because of his contract, because of his age, because his teams a mess.
People here think they can give nothing and get everything. That all these contenders with a glut of talented young D are going to give them away for a marlie and a box of timbits- they're not.... you want Tanev?, Trouba?, Pesce?, Hanafin? etc, then get ready to pay with your ****ing soul and Nylander.

Then you don’t make the trade thers no gun to your head, but it’s stup and I mean really stupid to do all the work and have a star and at first chance give him away just like Burke and all the other idiots that were GM’s here before. You do not trade from your very strength. There will not be a JVR, who Lou give away for nothing and I’m sure it was on the insistence of Babcock, Marleau will be 39 years old before next season starts and that’s the Kadri line and that magic that they somehow found, so who the f***k do you have left to score. Oh yes I know everyone and their grandmother is going to say Matthews and Marner will be put together on the first line and that will be a great line. NO IT WILL NOT be a great line it has been tried and it works in spurts not in a long run. I don’t know why and Babcock even said that he doesn’t know because they have become great friends. Even if it did without any other line to trethen with scoring the Leafs become a one line team and everyone will know how to stop them, stop the top line and you will beat the Leafs every night. Haven’t you people learned anything from that rocket scientist in Edmonton Chiarelli, you do not trade a Hall type of player or Nylander or Marner or Barzal or Boeser or Aho. I mean that guy in Carolina may not know much about hockey but he does know that Aho is a great player and they don’t just grow in trees. A lot of you think we have a great Marlies team we’ll just go and get one of their great players, hellloooo thers no Nylanders there or Mariners either. Think Tyler Hall okay next time anyone of you get another brilliant idea and after that tell yourself oh man I’m an idiot what was I thinking. Trade Nylander unbelievable, you all give your collective heads a real good shake and don’t stop until ghat idea goes away. CHEERS

 

[Mess]

Lots of names in TSN trade bait board top 15 that might fit the Leafs need as an upgrade to the defense.

https://www.tsn.ca/tsn-hockey-s-trade-bait-list-1.203546

 

[therealkoho]

1. Weber's cap hit is $7.8 million... for the player he's been, that is hardly a big cap hit, and we certainly aren't going to get a comparable for cheaper. Not only that, but Montreal is not going to want to retain on that, unless the price we pay, is substantially higher.

2. I still don't understand why people continue to go on about Weber's eight year contract. Has anyone even looked at how it is structured? The last three years are at $1 million per, and the year before that $3 million. He most certainly will not be playing for $ 1 million, and likely not for $3 million. Your typical Cap circumvention contract, where he will likely retire early. So, we are likely looking at a FOUR year contract, not EIGHT. That isn't too bad. Now, having said he is "likely" to retire after four years, that would be a disaster for Nashville, as he'd count as a $6.2 million Cap hit for them, for four years after that. It is in their best interests, to trade for him, and put him on LTIR at that point, if you can find a way to do so. In either case, he's about a four year player for us...

3. His skating wasn't great, but then, neither have guys like Chara, but they are smart, know the angles and can play the game well. The only question in my mind will be, did the broken foot further slow him down. As far as skating with this group, I don't think it's critical that every D man, be able to keep up on the rush.

sorry but the structuring means nothing, it's the AAV that is critical which is constant

The Leafs could comfortably afford to spend 100m a year on player salaries, the cap prevents that

Weber might be of interest if the Habs retain 50%, which all of us know is a very low likelyhood

 

[Leafs4life29]

Nylander for Gallagher seems fair, but then what are we giving up for Weber? Montreal aren’t going to take Gardiner for him, and they definitely wouldn’t want draft picks due to the fact that it would be a late pick and they’re trying to win more sooner than later. So I’m not sure how we would put together a fair deal involving these two.

Gallagher scores at a rate of .58 points per game and Nylander is at .74 points per game and you want to trade for him. Are you kidding me plus he’s a midget he’s what 5’8” hilarious.

 

[Leafs4life29]

Our D just isn't set up with what you think of a real #1 D. Gardiner was once again more effective than Reilly in the regular season and got heavier usage. However both guys produced points at a high rate.

What we don't have is that guy who can be trusted to shut down the other teams best line. Neither Reilly or Gardiner appears to be capable of that.

Weber as a solution seems like a disaster to me. He's going to be out of the league in short order unless he reinvents his game completely.

Gardiner was never our number 1 D, NEVER and he will never be one. Some idiot wrote it and you believed him. NEVER!!!