An Canada/USA born player question

[Hug Ben Laf]

If a USA player was born in Toronto, Ontario when his family was on vacation, but he is actually living in Florida. My question is, which of the 3 league in CHL can draft him? And he is an USA citizen, an similar situation Patrick O´Sullivan was in I guess, he was too born in Canada but he is an USA citizen? Or does he have both Canadian and USA citizenship?

I know I have alot of misspell but hope ya understand

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[leafaholix*]

I'm pretty sure you get dual citizenship.

Another example would be Devereaux Heshmatpour, a highly touted prospect playing for the Kitchener Rangers. He was born in Hawaii I believe, but he considers himself Canadian as he was raised in Toronto.

But I think if he's born in Toronto and raised in Florida, he can probably be drafted to either the QMJHL or OHL... probably based on which part of North America you're born/raised.

 

[Seachd]

My question is, which of the 3 league in CHL can draft him?

My guess would be the QMJHL. I don't know for sure, but it would make more sense that where he grew up/is living at the time is what matters, not where he was born.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I'm pretty sure you get dual citizenship.

Another example would be Devereaux Heshmatpour, a highly touted prospect playing for the Kitchener Rangers. He was born in Hawaii I believe, but he considers himself Canadian as he was raised in Toronto.

But I think if he's born in Toronto and raised in Florida, he can probably be drafted to either the QMJHL or OHL... probably based on which part of North America you're born/raised.

I don't think Heshmatpour is a good example. He might consider himself Canadian, but has no rights (as of yet) to that claim.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

If a USA player was born in Toronto, Ontario when his family was on vacation, but he is actually living in Florida. My question is, which of the 3 league in CHL can draft him? And he is an USA citizen, an similar situation Patrick O´Sullivan was in I guess, he was too born in Canada but he is an USA citizen? Or does he have both Canadian and USA citizenship?

I know I have alot of misspell but hope ya understand

Sounds similar to Dallas Eakins. He was born in Dade City, FL, but played in one of the CHL leagues. I wonder what determined his placement?

 

[leafaholix*]

I don't think Heshmatpour is a good example. He might consider himself Canadian, but has no rights (as of yet) to that claim.

He just turned 17, I'm sure he'll get to represent Canada in an International event soon.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

He just turned 17, I'm sure he'll get to represent Canada in an International event soon.

I think he's tried, but couldn't because he doesn't have Canadian citizenship. He's also used the USNTDP as a leverage tool, so who knows what he's going to do?

 

[rnyquist]

better example:

well 2:

1) Petr Nedved, played for Czech junior teams, defected to Canada, got citizenship in 93' and played for Canada in the olympics, and says he'll only ever play for Canada now.

2) Wolski- Born in Poland, moved to Canada when he was 3 i believe, although polish born, he's got canadian citizenship and will only play for Canada

basically once you have citizenship you can choose who you want to play for, but USA doesn't allow dual citizenship so most are either all US or all Canadian. (although Canada allows dual, or in some cases tri.)

 

[Hug Ben Laf]

So basically if u are an Florida resident u can only play for QMJHL in CHL?

 

[leafaholix*]

So basically if u are an Florida resident u can only play for QMJHL in CHL?

Dallas Eakins was born in Florida and played for Peterborough, OHL.

I think a Florida native can play in either the QMJHL or OHL... both are Eastern leagues, compared to the WHL.

 

[Hug Ben Laf]

Dallas Eakins was born in Florida and played for Peterborough, OHL.

I think a Florida native can play in either the QMJHL or OHL... both are Eastern leagues, compared to the WHL.

Ok, thanks man

 

[Famous Flames]

better example:

well 2:

1) Petr Nedved, played for Czech junior teams, defected to Canada, got citizenship in 93' and played for Canada in the olympics, and says he'll only ever play for Canada now.

2) Wolski- Born in Poland, moved to Canada when he was 3 i believe, although polish born, he's got canadian citizenship and will only play for Canada

basically once you have citizenship you can choose who you want to play for, but USA doesn't allow dual citizenship so most are either all US or all Canadian. (although Canada allows dual, or in some cases tri.)

I thought there was an Olympic rule that basically says regardless of current citizenship you can't play for a country you were not born in or your parents weren't citizens of when you were born?

 

[rnyquist]

I thought there was an Olympic rule that basically says regardless of current citizenship you can't play for a country you were not born in or your parents weren't citizens of when you were born?

a very common thing but players like Olaf Kolzig have challenged that. I think the rule is now you can play in any country you have citizenship in but once you play for a country on the world stage your stuck with them for good.

 

[gb701]

my only contribution is that being born in Toronto has nothing to do with citizenship - he is still an American even though it would be with an Ontario birth certificate and probably need some sort of US citizenship card (assuming they do things down there the same as we do up here). My wife is in exactly this situation but the other way - she was born in the US when her father was working there. No US rights result.

So, he is the same as any other US player so the only question is how the CHL assigns rights to Americans between the Q/O/W.

 

[Drake1588]

a very common thing but players like Olaf Kolzig have challenged that. I think the rule is now you can play in any country you have citizenship in but once you play for a country on the world stage your stuck with them for good.

This is correct. Using Kolzig as an example, his family was in hotel management, I believe, and moved around a great deal as he was growing up. His parents were German, Kolzig himself was born in South Africa and he grew up mainly in Western Canada. He plays for Team Germany, citing his German heritage to gain German citizenship. According to international rules, you can play for a country with which you have citizenship, but once you play internationally for that team, you cannot jump ship after the fact -- although you CAN switch prior to the age of 18, oddly. After that, however, you are locked into your country for international play.

The lone exception to that rule are citizens of former Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) countries. Players who once played for the USSR or for the CIS are able to play for such newly-independent countries as Kazakhstan, Belarus, Latvia, etc. today if they are nationals of those newly-independent states.

Separately...
As for citizenship, Canada allows dual, while the US does not. So in my own case, I emigrated from Quebec to the US. On becoming a naturalized American citizen, the ceremony requires you to renounce citizenship with other countries. Canada, however, does not recognize that and allows citizens to retain Canadian citizenship, carry a Canadian passport, etc.

However, if an American emigrated to Canada and eventually became a Canadian citizen, the US would immediately strip the individual of American citizenship and require that the individual turn in and/or destroy a US passport.

Now that has little to nothing to do with hockey; it's just a glance at the way citizenship works with the two countries.

 

[Drake1588]

One recent example of a player barred from competing for a different international team than the one he played for previously was Evgeni Nabakov, I believe. Now in his case, he had previously played for Kazakhstan in international play in 1994 when he was 19. The IIHF rules state that you can only change teams under the age of 18.

He later requested the opportunity to play for Team Russia in the 2002 Olympics. The IIHF denied the request, citing his previous play for Team Kazakhstan. An arbitrator brought in to consider overturning the IIHF ruling upheld the IIHF's decision.

Here is a link:
http://www.canoe.ca/2002GamesHockeyJan02/jan17_nab-ap.html

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympics/2002/news/01/31/AFP_TX_20020201_042100_XG12/

 

[Rovaniemi]

One recent example of a player barred from competing for a different international team than the one he played for previously was Evgeni Nabakov, I believe. Now in his case, he had previously played for Kazakhstan in international play in 1994 when he was 19. The IIHF rules state that you can only change teams under the age of 18.

He later requested the opportunity to play for Team Russia in the 2002 Olympics. The IIHF denied the request, citing his previous play for Team Kazakhstan. An arbitrator brought in to consider overturning the IIHF ruling upheld the IIHF's decision.

Here is a link:
http://www.canoe.ca/2002GamesHockeyJan02/jan17_nab-ap.html

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympics/2002/news/01/31/AFP_TX_20020201_042100_XG12/

To make things more complicated the World Cup has different rules. There have been stories that Nabokov would be allowed to represent Russia in the upcoming World Cup. Petr Nedved played for the Czech Republic in 1996 after he had represented Canada in the Olympics in Lillehammer.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

better example:

well 2:

1) Petr Nedved, played for Czech junior teams, defected to Canada, got citizenship in 93' and played for Canada in the olympics, and says he'll only ever play for Canada now.

2) Wolski- Born in Poland, moved to Canada when he was 3 i believe, although polish born, he's got canadian citizenship and will only play for Canada

basically once you have citizenship you can choose who you want to play for, but USA doesn't allow dual citizenship so most are either all US or all Canadian. (although Canada allows dual, or in some cases tri.)

Nedved actually ran into trouble with that one, last year. He wanted to play for the Czechs at the WCs, but they wouldn't let him, because he said he'd only play for Canada. It actually makes me wonder why they aren't picking him to play at this year's WCs.

 

[Vincent_TheGreat]

If a USA player was born in Toronto, Ontario when his family was on vacation, but he is actually living in Florida. My question is, which of the 3 league in CHL can draft him? And he is an USA citizen, an similar situation Patrick O´Sullivan was in I guess, he was too born in Canada but he is an USA citizen? Or does he have both Canadian and USA citizenship?

I know I have alot of misspell but hope ya understand

It doesn't depend on your birth city, unless your not NA. Its were you reside, FL probably falls under the Q, Maine and Vermont in the Q. Michigan and Illinois in the OHL and The western states to the dub. Not a matter of citizenship, but the area you reside!

 

[Hug Ben Laf]

It doesn't depend on your birth city, unless your not NA. Its were you reside, FL probably falls under the Q, Maine and Vermont in the Q. Michigan and Illinois in the OHL and The western states to the dub. Not a matter of citizenship, but the area you reside!

So does that mean a Florida resident cant be drafted to play in the OHL?

 

[tnq]

I thought there was an Olympic rule that basically says regardless of current citizenship you can't play for a country you were not born in or your parents weren't citizens of when you were born?

many Quebecers play for France olympic team

 

[Bohologo]

As for citizenship, Canada allows dual, while the US does not.

This is completely wrong. I'm a dual US/Canada citizen, and can hold both passports. There is no section of the US Immigration and Naturalization Act that explicitly forbids dual citizenship. There is a requirement that all US citizens enter the US on an American passport, regardless of what other status they may have.

The government of the United States has no way of tracking what other passports their citizens may accumulate through immigration or marriage or ancestry, and certainly cannot strip one of citizenship. The INA has very specific language about renouncing citizenship, and it's not done unilaterally. Please stop spreading myths!

 

[Vincent_TheGreat]

This is completely wrong. I'm a dual US/Canada citizen, and can hold both passports. There is no section of the US Immigration and Naturalization Act that explicitly forbids dual citizenship. There is a requirement that all US citizens enter the US on an American passport, regardless of what other status they may have.

The government of the United States has no way of tracking what other passports their citizens may accumulate through immigration or marriage or ancestry, and certainly cannot strip one of citizenship. The INA has very specific language about renouncing citizenship, and it's not done unilaterally. Please stop spreading myths!

Yeah that is bull, I have many cousins, aunts, and uncles who are dual citizens(CAN/USA) that live in the US. Its not to hard at all to be a dual citizen between are two countries.

 

[Vincent_TheGreat]

So does that mean a Florida resident cant be drafted to play in the OHL?

I would have to look at the territories, but Florida will fall under one leagues territory. If a player wanted to play elsewhere, he would have to reside somewhere that falls under another leagues territory.

 

[Hug Ben Laf]

I would have to look at the territories, but Florida will fall under one leagues territory. If a player wanted to play elsewhere, he would have to reside somewhere that falls under another leagues territory.

Then if a player resident in Boca Raton, Florida. Where would he play in CHL then?