Am I wrong for wanting Flippula back?

[HTT3*]

No for $3.5-4MM, 4-5 years

Yes for $5M+, 5+ years

Flip played terrible in a contract year...that's a no-no.

So did Weiss. Both were injured. Flip had the better 2011/12 season and is younger.

 

[Crymson]

That's not true... Weiss was on pace for 3 goals and -50 this season. Filppula who was also not 100% from a sprained MCL scored 9 goals, 17 points and was only -4.

The year before that, Filppula had much better production than Weiss and better +/- stats.

Heh. Weiss has substantially higher ppg average despite playing his entire career on what has been, with only one season's exception, a crappy, non-playoff team with no star players. Despite this, he has been better than Filppula across the board throughout his career. Your claim that Filppula had "much better production" than Weiss in 2011-2012 is nonsense. Weiss had a whopping eight less points playing on a terrible team than Filppula had playing almost the entire season with Zetterberg. And +/- really isn't a good measurement when dealing with a team like Florida.

Given that Weiss was playing injured in pretty much the entirety of the games he did play this season, using it as an example doesn't make any sense.

I wouldn't give Weiss over $3 million, Filppula is worth $4.5 to $5.0 million easily.

Sure, never mind that Weiss can put up 60 points regularly on a bad team, something that Filppula has only managed once on a good team. Never mind, too, that Weiss can also play on the PK and, unlike Filppula, actually throws a hit once in awhile.

And never mind that Filppula averages less than a point per game, has no special qualities, sucks without world-class linemates, disappears for long stretches, and is invisible when he isn't scoring.

Yep, $5m. Easily!

 

[Frk It]

Heh. Weiss has substantially higher ppg average despite playing his entire career on what has been, with only one season's exception, a crappy, non-playoff team with no star players. Despite this, he has been better than Filppula across the board throughout his career. Your claim that Filppula had "much better production" than Weiss in 2011-2012 is nonsense. Weiss had a whopping eight less points playing on a terrible team than Filppula had playing almost the entire season with Zetterberg. And +/- really isn't a good measurement when dealing with a team like Florida.

Given that Weiss was playing injured in pretty much the entirety of the games he did play this season, using it as an example doesn't make any sense.





Sure, never mind that Weiss can put up 60 points regularly on a bad team, something that Filppula has only managed once on a good team. Never mind, too, that Weiss can also play on the PK and, unlike Filppula, actually throws a hit once in awhile.

And never mind that Filppula averages less than a point per game, has no special qualities, sucks without world-class linemates, disappears for long stretches, and is invisible when he isn't scoring.

Yep, $5m. Easily!

Can't really compare them head to head since Weiss plays more minutes and plays in more situations. I agree with your overall sentiment though.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

That's not true... Weiss was on pace for 3 goals and -50 this season. Filppula who was also not 100% from a sprained MCL scored 9 goals, 17 points and was only -4.

The year before that, Filppula had much better production than Weiss and better +/- stats.

I wouldn't give Weiss over $3 million, Filppula is worth $4.5 to $5.0 million easily.

Neither was Weiss at 100% health wise Weiss had health issues also this past season and the reasons that his numbers were down over his career Weiss has put up way better numbers and you cant dispute that.

 

[ricky0034]

to be honest i'm a bit bitter about the whole Filppula situation

he's always felt like he had the ability to be a lot more than he has been and last year he made some massive strides with problems people have always had with him(aggressiveness and such) and looked to have finally turned a corner. I'd have given him his $5m after last year,he had a great year

then a new season rolls around and it's like every step forward he took last year got completely canceled out,he wasn't the same kind of player this year as he was last year,not even close

 

[Henkka]

to be honest i'm a bit bitter about the whole Filppula situation

he's always felt like he had the ability to be a lot more than he has been and last year he made some massive strides with problems people have always had with him(aggressiveness and such) and looked to have finally turned a corner. I'd have given him his $5m after last year,he had a great year

then a new season rolls around and it's like every step forward he took last year got completely canceled out,he wasn't the same kind of player this year as he was last year,not even close

Pretty much all advanced statistics showed that his 2011-12 season was a fluke. He didn't shoot the puck more or wasn't any different. He just got more easy goals, because the linechemistry with Z and Huds was so great. Like his corsi, it was the only negative one from our TOP6. I would be very careful with his future contract and no wonder our management also know what they are doing. They have not made any moves towards keeping Val. They know. We have seen the best from Valtteri and that 3 million caphit was the right value for him. No reason for overpayment for same level and same value.

 

[BF3]

So did Weiss. Both were injured. Flip had the better 2011/12 season and is younger.

I never mentioned Weiss. Flip yes or no, that was the question.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

So did Weiss. Both were injured. Flip had the better 2011/12 season and is younger.

Weiss had the better 2007/2008, 2008/2009, 2009/2010, and 2010/2011 season. All while playing on a bottom-feeder. Plus he plays the PK.

 

[Bench]

Let's take it easy on the Weiss/Flip war. It's going in circles with a predictable outcome.

 

[HTT3*]

Weiss had the better 2007/2008, 2008/2009, 2009/2010, and 2010/2011 season. All while playing on a bottom-feeder. Plus he plays the PK.

2011/2012 and 2012/2013 Filppula scored 22 more points and has a better +/- rating than Weiss. If you go back 6 or 7 years, you can make the case that Jonathan Cheechoo was better than Filppula, that doesn't mean Cheechoo is a better player now. Weiss was injured and is likely on the downside of his career. Remind you of someone? Mikael Samuelsson says hi

 

[Bench]

I'm still foggy on who HTT3 likes better, but this, like Amelia Earhart's whereabouts, shall remain a mystery. Let's live in intrigue.

 

[Henkka]

2011/2012 and 2012/2013 Filppula scored 22 more points and has a better +/- rating than Weiss.

Too bad it's too hard for you to understand, that Filppula is more of a product of his superstar linemates like Zetterberg or Datsyuk when Weiss has been playing with such superstars like Kopecky, Fleischmann or Versteeg.

Those points are not comparable almost at all because of:

1. linemates (Weiss has carried weaker pylons on his back)
2. quality of competition (Weiss has carried these pylons always against hardest competition as a 1st line center, when Filppula is sheltered with secondary competition at maximum)

If you don't understand these things, don't worry, ice-hockey management professionals from the most successful organization of last two decades, the Detroit Red Wings (and Stars) like Ken Holland and Jim Nill, will understand. That's why they are more interested in cheaper Weiss than going to overpay for their well-known home-grown Filppula.

 

[Brick Top]

I'm still foggy on who HTT3 likes better, but this, like Amelia Earhart's whereabouts, shall remain a mystery. Let's live in intrigue.

It's an X-Files-esque mystery right up there with the whereabouts of Jimmy Hoffa's remains... which apparently may not be buried in the foundations of the Meadowlands!!

I'm looking forward to Flip signing elsewhere if not just to see if HTT3 can work Flip into as many threads as Eva can with Hudler. Yep, I'm throwing down the gauntlet right now

I am looking ahead to the post-Flip era. Don't think he'll be missed all that much, and it won't take a premier player to replace his production. Even if KH can't land a difference making top 6 forward, I'd prefer to roll with the remaining guys and save the cap space for a better player later. No sense tying up $5m or more long term on a guy who isn't a core forward.

 

[InjuredChoker]

2011/2012 and 2012/2013 Filppula scored 22 more points and has a better +/- rating than Weiss.

Context can be useful. Jeff Schultz had better combined +/- than Lidström in 08/09 and 09/10 season.

If you go back 6 or 7 years, you can make the case that Jonathan Cheechoo was better than Filppula, that doesn't mean Cheechoo is a better player now.

Counting the last 6 or 7 years, Flip is better than Cheechoo as Cheechoo hasn't been in NHL since 09-10 season.

Bad comparison.

Weiss was injured and is likely on the downside of his career. Remind you of someone? Mikael Samuelsson says hi

The same could be said of Flip.

 

[Hendricks433]

Filpulla

07/08 78 games 36 points
08/09 80 games 40 points
09/10 55 games 35 points
10/11 71 games 39 points
11/12 81 games 66 points

Weiss

07/08 74 games 42 points
08/09 78 games 61 points
09/10 80 games 60 points
10/11 76 games 49 points
11/12 80 games 57 points

Fil has 1 season over 40 points. Weiss has over 40 points each of those seasons. Fil is also hurt just as much as Weiss if not more.

 

[malkinfan]

Heh. Weiss has substantially higher ppg average despite playing his entire career on what has been, with only one season's exception, a crappy, non-playoff team with no star players. Despite this, he has been better than Filppula across the board throughout his career. Your claim that Filppula had "much better production" than Weiss in 2011-2012 is nonsense. Weiss had a whopping eight less points playing on a terrible team than Filppula had playing almost the entire season with Zetterberg. And +/- really isn't a good measurement when dealing with a team like Florida.

Given that Weiss was playing injured in pretty much the entirety of the games he did play this season, using it as an example doesn't make any sense.


Sure, never mind that Weiss can put up 60 points regularly on a bad team, something that Filppula has only managed once on a good team. Never mind, too, that Weiss can also play on the PK and, unlike Filppula, actually throws a hit once in awhile.

And never mind that Filppula averages less than a point per game, has no special qualities, sucks without world-class linemates, disappears for long stretches, and is invisible when he isn't scoring.

Yep, $5m. Easily!

Your obviously a stats guy... Throw those numbers out the window because they are junk... Flip is an integral part of the Red Wings. He has one bad year coming off injury to boot and everyone wants to get rid of him. Yes, he scores lower quantity than Wiess, but not short in Quality! Look at that goal he scored against Chicago. Filp was good in the playoffs despite playing through injury. He has won a cup with the Wings and has come up with some big plays during the playoffs in the past. His playoff accolades alone are enough to give him the damn money. Throw chemistry into the equation (he's been playing with wings best guys for like 8 years) ... He has 100 + PO game experience, Weiss has 7. Filp has 60 PO points, Weiss has 5. The grass isn't greener on the other side. The Wings rarely replace guys who they have brought up and kept for the long term in favour of a guy who may be marginally better. They are too smart for this and I hope the keep that streak going with Flip... For crying out loud 1 game away from going to the semis, top 4 teams in league and they lost to a top 2 team in the league. Doesn't mean you blow things up, it means you tweak. Not to mention they got the cap space

 

[newfy]

Your obviously a stats guy... Throw those numbers out the window because they are junk... Flip is an integral part of the Red Wings. He has one bad year coming off injury to boot and everyone wants to get rid of him. Yes, he scores lower quantity than Wiess, but not short in Quality! Look at that goal he scored against Chicago. Filp was good in the playoffs despite playing through injury. He has won a cup with the Wings and has come up with some big plays during the playoffs in the past. His playoff accolades alone are enough to give him the damn money. Throw chemistry into the equation (he's been playing with wings best guys for like 8 years) ... He has 100 + PO game experience, Weiss has 7. Filp has 60 PO points, Weiss has 5. The grass isn't greener on the other side. The Wings rarely replace guys who they have brought up and kept for the long term in favour of a guy who may be marginally better. They are too smart for this and I hope the keep that streak going with Flip... For crying out loud 1 game away from going to the semis, top 4 teams in league and they lost to a top 2 team in the league. Doesn't mean you blow things up, it means you tweak. Not to mention they got the cap space

I stopped reading after your third sentence.. Flip has one bad year?!?!? He had one GOOD year and has put up how many points in all his other seasons?? Having guys like him making 5 million are what kill teams ability to make moves

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Your obviously a stats guy... Throw those numbers out the window because they are junk... Flip is an integral part of the Red Wings. He has one bad year coming off injury to boot and everyone wants to get rid of him. Yes, he scores lower quantity than Wiess, but not short in Quality! Look at that goal he scored against Chicago. Filp was good in the playoffs despite playing through injury. He has won a cup with the Wings and has come up with some big plays during the playoffs in the past. His playoff accolades alone are enough to give him the damn money. Throw chemistry into the equation (he's been playing with wings best guys for like 8 years) ... He has 100 + PO game experience, Weiss has 7. Filp has 60 PO points, Weiss has 5. The grass isn't greener on the other side. The Wings rarely replace guys who they have brought up and kept for the long term in favour of a guy who may be marginally better. They are too smart for this and I hope the keep that streak going with Flip... For crying out loud 1 game away from going to the semis, top 4 teams in league and they lost to a top 2 team in the league. Doesn't mean you blow things up, it means you tweak. Not to mention they got the cap space

Fil has been above mediocre for ONE SEASON in his entire career. He's been blowing offensive chances for his line for like 3 straight years now. He isn't nearly as good offensively as he appears to be. All flash, no substance.

I think this is just a trick. You're a Penguins fan who wants us to sign a bad player.

 

[sureWhyNot]

Ill keep it simple and answer your question, "am wrong for wanting flip back?"

The answer is most definitely yes. Yes you are wrong. Very wrong.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Dreger said on Insider trading that Flip wants 5.5 mil for eight years or at least seven years.

 

[Crymson]

Your obviously a stats guy... Throw those numbers out the window because they are junk

That's a bit arbitrary, don't you think?

But hey, who am I kidding---what use are facts in a discussion, right???

Yes, he scores lower quantity than Wiess, but not short in Quality! Look at that goal he scored against Chicago.

Ah, yes, that one goal he scored in the entire series. Brilliant. Anyway, are you suggesting that a finesse goal is worth more than a garbage goal? Last I checked, they both put one point up on the scoreboard. If you indeed think that way, then Tomas Holmstrom may want a word with you.

Filp was good in the playoffs despite playing through injury.

Filppula's only playoff injury this season came in game seven. Unless I suffered some sort of brain aneurysm during that game, I don't believe he played through it.

He has won a cup with the Wings and has come up with some big plays during the playoffs in the past.

Not in awhile, and not often enough.

His playoff accolades alone are enough to give him the damn money.

And what accolades are these?

Throw chemistry into the equation (he's been playing with wings best guys for like 8 years) ...

He hasn't even been on the team for eight years. And he has been playing on the top two lines for about half that long. But it has been long enough to demonstrate that even with elite linemates, he still can't produce consistently at a respectable clip.

He has 100 + PO game experience, Weiss has 7. Filp has 60 PO points, Weiss has 5.

Yep, because Weiss has played on an awful team for his entire career whereas Filppula has played on one of the best teams in the league. Despite this, Weiss has still managed to score more than Filppula.

The Wings rarely replace guys who they have brought up and kept for the long term in favour of a guy who may be marginally better. They are too smart for this and I hope the keep that streak going with Flip...

If he weren't asking for an absurd amount of money, then he'd likely be re-signed. As things stand, he's asking for much more than he's worth.

For crying out loud 1 game away from going to the semis, top 4 teams in league and they lost to a top 2 team in the league. Doesn't mean you blow things up, it means you tweak. Not to mention they got the cap space

Letting go of a non-key, non-vital player who wants more money than he actually merits hardly qualifies as blowing up the team.

Dreger said on Insider trading that Flip wants 5.5 mil for eight years or at least seven years.

As long as the Wings still have him under contract, perhaps they should order a piss test. If Dreger's right, then Filppula has got to be on drugs.

 

[Henkka]

Agree with everything Crymson pointed out. There will be better options than this kind of overpayment.

Nothing against Filppula. He is a great guy, but in a cap world the price has to be right. We have huge wave of great kids coming in future to replace these kind of secondary guys with cheaper contracts.

 

[AvsRobin]

Hey Wings fans.

If you replace Flip with Weiss, upgrade or downgrade?

 

[SoupNazi]

Hey Wings fans.

If you replace Flip with Weiss, upgrade or downgrade?

In my opinion, that's an upgrade.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Dreger said on Insider trading that Flip wants 5.5 mil for eight years or at least seven years.

Well then he'll either be on a team with a stupid GM (like CGY or PHI) or a team needing to reach the cap floor.