Player Discussion Alzner

[Peanut]

Blown past is probably not the right words, since its rare to see that happen to any D. More that he gets pushed back. He doesn't suppress shots against to any great degree and he bleeds shot from the crease area.

Every D in the NHL can move his feet and knows how to skate. That's moved from the average to the bare minimum. That's not good enough anymore.

damn that looks pretty bad

I am curious what Orlov's looks like

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Yes he has. He lost his mobility (such that it was). He was better defensively when he came into the league. But his game fell off right around his age 29 season (in part due to injury).

Name me the defensive defensemen in the league right now, preferably with comparable footspeed, that are in their primes in the age range you provided. How many are even decent middle pair guys?

Oduya, McQuaid, K. Miller, Scuderi, M. Greene, J. Smith?, Methot, A. Ward? are some names that pop to mind.

 

[1909]

damn that looks pretty bad

I am curious what Orlov's looks like

The guy was injured last season. Give him a break. He was a solid d-man for washington for years.

He will be perfect on the second pairing with Petry.

 

[Drew4u]

He's pretty much Girardi 2.0. Can't skate, terrible puck mover, and is a possession blackhole. Blocking shots does not mean you're good devensively!!

 

[1909]

He's pretty much Girardi 2.0. Can't skate, terrible puck mover, and is a possession blackhole. Blocking shots does not mean you're good devensively!!

Can we wait and see ?

 

[Belial]

damn that looks pretty bad

I am curious what Orlov's looks like

 

[Peanut]

Thank you, holy crap Orlov is good!

 

[Captain Mountain]

damn that looks pretty bad

I am curious what Orlov's looks like

Oduya, McQuaid, K. Miller, Scuderi, M. Greene, J. Smith?, Methot, A. Ward? are some names that pop to mind.

That's kinda what concerns me, especially with Alzner's cap hit.

 

[Runner77]

You mean just like this management has a pro scouting department and information on who's available and what the asking price is?

Maybe you know better than them.

It's not just the intel you have access to, it's what you do with it.

Washington is in cap hell, they didn't let Alzner go because he sucks but because they don't have the cap space to keep the guy.

Panic move? Come on, he signed Jerabek months ago and the Beaulieu trade was just a matter of time.

If he was afraid of losing Emelin he would've made a deal with GMGM to keep the guy.

If Bergevin was in panic mode Markov would've been already signed at 6Mx2 and Radulov would've got a blank cheque.

I don't feel any panic whatsoever...

They had Alzner on their radar the whole way IMO and this was not a knee jerk signing.

So to you, it's normal to go into an off season with your full LHD corps gutted out? Interesting. You should try free style rock climbing. See the Other Sports thread for tips.

Good point about Washington's cap situation. Then, look at the market. How many teams were willing to grant 5 years to Alzner? How many were willing to outbid the Habs?

Can we stop it with Jerabek already? He's a project, he may or may not make the team. He's a wild card, he's never played in the NHL. Let's wait and see, he's no sure thing.

The Beaulieu trade was a matter of time, but it became a matter of bad timing. I don't care for Emelin, however, that 3rd expansion protection slot had to belong to a LHD. Or prior to the expansion draft, a better strategy would have been to make a deal with GMGM to not select any LHDs or a particular player who would be less detrimental. I know, 20-20.

There wasn't the same sense of urgency with Radulov as Bergevin had hedged his bets by trading for Drouin. Why else did Bergevin come off as a brash oaf playing hardball with Radulov?

Same with Markov, Bergevin had signed other LHDs by that time, so he now feels confident that he doesn't have to pay for that second year Markov wants.

Alzner was signed on account of shortcomings that Bergevin manufactured for himself. It's like someone putting his house on fire and then trying to put it off with a garden hose and showing the neighbors that he's some kind of hero. You're the neighbor who interrupts Bergevin's hosing by asking for an autograph.

 

[Belial]

Maybe you know better than them.

It's not just the intel you have access to, it's what you do with it.

I get it, you don't trust those guys at all.

So to you, it's normal to go into an off season with your full LHD corps gutted out? Interesting. You should try free style rock climbing. See the Other Sports thread for tips.

We lost Beaulieu and Emelin for god sake, 90% of this board crapped on those guys every second game and wanted them traded for a bag of pucks!

Now you're trying to paint this situation like we lost Bobby Orr and Ray Bourque.

Alzner+Schlemko>Emelin+Beaulieu!

Why are you making a drama out of this?

Markov is still out there he might still be back.

Good point about Washington's cap situation. Then, look at the market. How many teams were willing to grant 5 years to Alzner? How many were willing to outbid the Habs?

It was reported that Alzner was quite coveted.

The Beaulieu trade was a matter of time, but it became a matter of bad timing. I don't care for Emelin, however, that 3rd expansion protection slot had to belong to a LHD. Or prior to the expansion draft, a better strategy would have been to make a deal with GMGM to not select any LHDs or a particular player who would be less detrimental. I know, 20-20.

Again, I could care less about those guys. We didn't lose some amazing irreplaceable players.

Benn is actually an LHD.

We have Alzner, Schlemko, Davidson, Benn, Jerabek, and Morrow on the left side!

And we still might resign Markov.

I don't get the panic...

There wasn't the same sense of urgency with Radulov as Bergevin had hedged his bets by trading for Drouin. Why else did Bergevin come off as a brash oaf playing hardball with Radulov?

Bergevin offered him a great deal, what hardball?

Same with Markov, Bergevin had signed other LHDs by that time, so he now feels confident that he doesn't have to pay for that second year Markov wants.

It's amazing how you always position yourself against management...

Alzner was signed on account of shortcomings that Bergevin manufactured for himself. It's like someone putting his house on fire and then trying to put it off with a garden hose and showing the neighbors that he's some kind of hero. You're the neighbor who interrupts Bergevin's hosing by asking for an autograph.

As I said, I think they planned to sign Alzner no matter the circumstances.

 

[Hoople]

Blown past is probably not the right words, since its rare to see that happen to any D. More that he gets pushed back. He doesn't suppress shots against to any great degree and he bleeds shot from the crease area.

Every D in the NHL can move his feet and knows how to skate. That's moved from the average to the bare minimum. That's not good enough anymore.

Was Alzner the only player on the ice?

 

[HabsFanJosh]

Was Alzner the only player on the ice?

No, he played with John Carlson 53% of the time and his looks just as bad, if not worse

 

[Price is Wright]

Lots of interest in Alzner.

Lots of interest last year in Kris Russell.

Lots of interest in Mike Komisarek when he became a free agent.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Yeah, because everyone was saying after the Rangers loss that what the Habs needed wasn't scoring but better defence.

We needed a better goal differential. Believe it or not some teams have won playoffs series scoring fewer goals than we did against the NYR. Obviously the bigger and easier improvement to make is by boosting offense but if Emelin/Markov/Beaulieu don't make mistakes left and right... perhaps we win against NYR.

Lots of interest in Alzner.

Lots of interest last year in Kris Russell.

Lots of interest in Mike Komisarek when he became a free agent.

And it appears the interest was justified since oilers were happy enough with getting Russell that they went for a second helping at 16M/4 years.

Not sure what Russell is doing in this argument though.

 

[Runner77]

I get it, you don't trust those guys at all.

Never said that. Next.

We lost Beaulieu and Emelin for god sake, 90% of this board crapped on those guys every second game and wanted them traded for a bag of pucks!

Now you're trying to paint this situation like we lost Bobby Orr and Ray Bourque.

Never said that. Next.

Alzner+Schlemko>Emelin+Beaulieu!

Apples and oranges. Emelin expiring contract. Alzner 5 years for a defensive defenceman, not a need. Alzners can easily be drafted and developed, not worth buying into at age 28 when you can have them during their cost-controlled years when they are at their best.

Why are you making a drama out of this?

You're inventing a situation that doesn't exist. I thought we were having a discussion, an exchange of ideas. You seem to want to be a ventriloquist and you're looking for posters to act as your puppet.

Markov is still out there he might still be back.

I've made that caveat in several other posts. Next.

It was reported that Alzner was quite coveted.

Could be. But, did we really need to invest 5 years in the type of D he is? Remind me why we lost against the Rangers in the playoffs. That's it, too much scoring from our D.

Again, I could care less about those guys. We didn't lose some amazing irreplaceable players.

Not the point, next.

Benn is actually an LHD.

He's on record as preferring to play the right side.

We have Alzner, Schlemko, Davidson, Benn, Jerabek, and Morrow on the left side!

Our D is mostly an aging, slow contingent.

And we still might resign Markov.

You said that already in this post ...

I don't get the panic...

Who is panicking? I thought we were having a discussion. We just see things differently.

Bergevin offered him a great deal, what hardball?

The presser at which Bergevin issued public ultimatums to both Radulov and Markov.

It's amazing how you always position yourself against management...

You really are looking for a puppet. Those ventriloquism aspirations are starting on the wrong foot.

How about not ascribing to others, thoughts and circumstances that were never intended.

Enjoy Alzner.

 

[Devourers]

Since 2013, 91 defencemen have played 300 games.

When ranking them in even strength points, Karl Alzner is #62 with 75 points in 376 games. For comparison, Alexei Emelin was #76 with 62 points in 313 games.

Alzner: 0.199
Emelin: 0.198

Huge improvement.

So what you're telling me is that technically he is better than Emelin offensively. Well, that makes me feel a lot better considering I felt Emelin was a bit of a pylon defensively and had very poor decision making skills with the puck in his own zone. It's clearly an improvement because we got a guy who puts up the same kind of offense with way better defense.

Also Belial, you claim others always position themselves against management. Look in the mirror sometime, you're equally as hypocritical in reverse. Some might even think you're MB's actual son you're so pro management.

 

[Uncle Gary]

Habs are paying close to $15 million next season for Alzner, Shaw and Plekanec. Overpay talentless players on a team that can't score. Sounds like a good way to win a cup to me.

 

[Runner77]

Habs are paying close to $15 million next season for Alzner, Shaw and Plekanec. Overpay talentless players on a team that can't score. Sounds like a good way to win a cup to me.

A defensive defenceman, a third liner who puts up low points and who plays a style that his body can't handle and a once good two-way player who fell off a cliff and is raking $6 Million for providing bottom liner production. This is the crater that never seems to go away under Bergevin's regime. Only the names have changed. Look back on his 5 years and you'll find similar gross overpayments to underachievers and bottom feeder types. Shades of who Bergevin used to be as a player.

 

[Price is Wright]

So what you're telling me is that technically he is better than Emelin offensively.

Yes. By 0.01.

Montreal found it necessary to replace Emelin and did it with a guy that did 75 ES points in 376 games with the Washington Capitals. Who will now play with the Habs offence. For five years.

What Montreal needed was a Beaulieu replacement that played better defence. A 30+ point guy that could carry the puck. Instead they decided to try going sideways. Now they are crossing their fingers on Schlemko or Jerabek being offensive dynamos to replace Markov and Beaulieu.

 

[le_sean]

To be fair, Schlemko does produce at a 25 point per season pace, so he can definitely replace Beaulieu. The issue is Markov.

I don't know why people bring up Beaulieu like he was some kind of huge loss. He's in this Eller realm of fans continuously waiting for an offensive break out that's not going to happen. He is what he is. It's because of limited IQ in both cases.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

A defensive defenceman, a third liner who puts up low points and who plays a style that his body can't handle and a once good two-way player who fell off a cliff and is raking $6 Million for providing bottom liner production. This is the crater that never seems to go away under Bergevin's regime. Only the names have changed. Look back on his 5 years and you'll find similar gross overpayments to underachievers and bottom feeder types. Shades of who Bergevin used to be as a player.

When has cap issues ever hurt us? Even Radulov came down to term.

And it's quite ironic to complain about plekanecs 6 million next year when being annoyed about not signing Radulov.

 

[Runner77]

When has cap issues ever hurt us? Even Radulov came down to term.

Yeah, that's a reason to squander cap space. Nicely played.

And it's quite ironic to complain about plekanecs 6 million next year when being annoyed about not signing Radulov.

Another false equivalency. Plekanec's performance has completely cratered. What does he have to do with a productive player like Radulov who unlike many Habs, actually showed up in the playoffs? So Plekanec is your attempt to ridicule a first line player who signed elsewhere. Sure.

 

[Habssince89]

Alzner-Petry will be a fan favourite this season.

 

[G0bias]

Alzner-Petry will be a fan favourite this season.

For which team?

 

[NotProkofievian]

Was Alzner the only player on the ice?

Here is the Washington Capital's shot's against heat map relative to league average without Karl Alzner.