Rutherford: Allen Taking a Different Approach to Summer

[Majorityof1]

Jeremy Rutherford posted an article a few days ago that I found fascinating, as much for what it didn't say as what it did. Here is the link for those with an athletic subscription.

To summarize for those without a subscription. Jake Allen was not worried at all he would be traded this off-season. “I don’t know if I should get into that,” Allen said. “I knew I was coming back." Rutherford thinks there was an implication that Armstrong gave him this assurance. However, the Blues straight up told him he needed to be more consistent.

Initially after the season Allen told reporters that he wouldn't make any changes to his summer routine. Now he told JR, he did make a change. But here is the weird thing, he would not say what that change was. He even indicated it wasn't his idea, and he didn't think it would work. Although now he is happy about it. JR, and myself, think he is talking to a sports shrink.

The rest of the article is making excuses for him, talking about the lack of goal-scoring and how he is only bad for a few weeks a year.

I think there is a lot here to unpack and discuss, hence why I made its own thread.

1) It seems Armstrong didn't even kick the tires on a different goalie. Is that the right move?
2) Do you think Allen's seeing a psychologist? If not, then what? If so, is that what he needs?
3) Why the big secrecy?
4) Allen makes some quotes about what he needs to do to be successful, are those reassuring to you?
5) Can Allen be a good goalie? What does he need?

Click to read more...

 

[TruBlu]

Jeremy Rutherford posted an article a few days ago that I found fascinating, as much for what it didn't say as what it did. Here is the link for those with an athletic subscription.

To summarize for those without a subscription. Jake Allen was not worried at all he would be traded this off-season. “I don’t know if I should get into that,” Allen said. “I knew I was coming back." Rutherford thinks there was an implication that Armstrong gave him this assurance. However, the Blues straight up told him he needed to be more consistent.

Initially after the season Allen told reporters that he wouldn't make any changes to his summer routine. Now he told JR, he did make a change. But here is the weird thing, he would not say what that change was. He even indicated it wasn't his idea, and he didn't think it would work. Although now he is happy about it. JR, and myself, think he is talking to a sports shrink.

The rest of the article is making excuses for him, talking about the lack of goal-scoring and how he is only bad for a few weeks a year.

I think there is a lot here to unpack and discuss, hence why I made its own thread.

1) It seems Armstrong didn't even kick the tires on a different goalie. Is that the right move?
2) Do you think Allen's seeing a psychologist? If not, then what? If so, is that what he needs?
3) Why the big secrecy?
4) Allen makes some quotes about what he needs to do to be successful, are those reassuring to you?
5) Can Allen be a good goalie? What does he need?

It's hard for me to make assumptions about the article since I don't have a subscription and can't read it, but...

1) I don't think you can make the assumption about what DA did or didn't do based upon an article where he wasn't even questioned.
2) No clue. If he is and it helps him, great. If it is something else and it helps him, great.
3) Athletes of all manner of sports are superstitious beings.
4) The first step to rectifying the problem is to recognize it.
5) This one is the easiest of all. A resounding yes. He's shown time and time again that he can play at a higher level. The consistency so far has been the biggest issue.

 

[Majorityof1]

Ok, to answer my own questions:

1) No absolutely the wrong move. I think Allen can be better and even good, but we were never a fit for him and psychology can be slow and unsuccessful. Our skaters are poised to compete, but we need a goalie who can. Chad Johnson is absolutely not good enough to step in if Allen implodes again, and I don't want that pressure on Husso until he can play a season where he is the everyday starter in the AHL. In another Athletic article, the writer uses advanced stats (Wins above replacement) to see who had the best off-season. Our gains at forward were almost wiped out replacing Hutton with Johnson. Granted, its comparing a hot year for Hutts and a down one for Chad. I don't think the difference will be as extreme as last year, but it is still a big downgrade.

2) Yes, thats what I think it is. While Ithink it could be very helpful to him, I have reservations. When Allen was at his best, it was under Brodeur's tutelage. I remember a quote where he says that Brodeur was always reminding him to calm down and keep things simple. Hopefully the shrink will have the same effect. But just seeing him over the sumemr is not enough. As soon as Brodeur stopped being a constant precense, it all went out the window. Its on Jake to keep the training going all year. And I also just think he needs a different team as his skill set doesn't match what we want to do.

3) I think its a secret because it bothers him that fans call him a headcase. He mentioned fan reaction in the article a few times. We have been unkind to the guy who is a millionaire off the money we spend to watch the team win.At the end of last year he said any fan who calls him a headcase is a headcase. Now he is being force to see a shrink, and he doesn't want to admit, maybe he had some head issues, if not a headcase.

4) Obviously not to me, which is why I asked. Armstrong made a lot of excuses saying he was bad only 4-5 weeks. And its true he is atrocious for only a small stretch, he is inconsistent and can be bad at any time. He talked about how he led us to the playoffs before, but he always did so in a platoon, and we never went anywhere. The goal isn't the playoffs. He talks about having to stick to his game, but I think there are issues to his game that need to be fixed as well.

5) He can, he has the skilll set. But I think he needs a different environment and a very hands on coach like Brodeur was. We have had good goalie coaches, so its not just being a good goalie coach. Corsi had great success in Buffalo but was a disaster here. I don't think 3 months of a shrink is going to be the fix. He needs that constant supervision.

 

[Majorityof1]

It's hard for me to make assumptions about the article since I don't have a subscription and can't read it, but...

1) I don't think you can make the assumption about what DA did or didn't do based upon an article where he wasn't even questioned.

Agreed. But there is only so much I can post by the rules of the site. I erred on the side of caution. Armstrong was interviewed. He made a ton of excuses for Jake. We don't score (But Hutts still managed to win games according to JR) and he's only bad for a 4 weeks in the middle of the year. But the thing about Armstrong not shopping them was that Allen said he knew he's be back but didn't want to get into the specifics as to why he knew.

 

[DeuceNine]

Can Allen be a good goalie? What does he need?

Allen IS a great goalie, when he is consistent and plays quiet. He's a .925/.930 guy at his best, as he's shown. And look, he doesn't need to be our savior every night, or Army's doing it wrong anyway. He just needs to be himself. Hopefully whatever he needs to do helps, and we should respect the fact that he's at least receptive to suggestions.

 

[MissouriMook]

A sports psychologist might be able to help his mental game so he can play a quieter style of play and get caught out of position less often, but they’re not really going to help him track pucks better or keep on his angles and not give up so many short side goals. I really hope he spent some time this offseason working on those parts of his game.

 

[Majorityof1]

Allen IS a great goalie, when he is consistent and plays quiet. He's a .925/.930 guy at his best, as he's shown. And look, he doesn't need to be our savior every night, or Army's doing it wrong anyway. He just needs to be himself. Hopefully whatever he needs to do helps, and we should respect the fact that he's at least receptive to suggestions.

Is someone really a great goaltender when you have to add "when he is conssitent"? Consistency is the mark of a great goalie. Most NHL goalies can get hot and put up lights out numbers over small stretches. The better goaltenders extend those stretches and minimize the valleys.

From the article, which I know not everyone can read, it didn't seem like he was receptive to the suggestion, nor even like it was a suggestion. Although the article didn't come out and say it, it seemed like "Do this, or we'll trade you to Buffalo". From JR: " ...with Allen not expected to be doing anything differently this offseason until his exit meeting, and him saying that it was better than he thought he was going to take it, it seems like it was strongly encouraged by the club."

 

[Ranksu]

1. If that is really the truth, Its bad move if Army didn't really even open up discussion about different goaltender. Its odd how bad Allen was last seson. Off-season is the right time to make a moves to goaltender and not mid-season or TDL. I hope Army has learn his lesson (Miller case). I other hand I fully trust Army judgement about everything so I wait and see what happends with Allen.

2. I hope he has. I don't understand why it would be wrong move to talk somebody who can help you. Feels like its 'ego' thing to Allen he can't admit he has been bad. I remember last season he had odd interviews where he deny the questions and pass it to other topic.

3. I believe Allen and Brodeur had worked together this off-seson. Get shit together.

4. If Allen really has admit he has his flaws, its really good progress, but it still don't believe that is really the case noting how arrogant Allen was at some interviews.

5. I believe Allen can be #1 goaltender, but in the right defensive system. Not in Blues.

Overally Its not totally Allen problem, case is his goaltender style (flashy and aggressive) is not fitting for our defensive system. Blues system favors goaltender who rely being good open 1st shot, rebound control, and trust his defenders and not play aggressively (out of position).

 

[ItsOnlytheRiver]

I think Allen is still at that age where he can find consistency. This league has seen goalies not find themselves until their 30s, and he is certainly athletic enough.

I'm not surprised he wasn't traded, because who would trade for him without the Blues giving up assets to get rid of him?

The funniest part of this board is just how many trades everyone thinks will happen. Every offseason begins with Blues fans predicting we will make 5 trades and another 2 at the next trade deadline. Even after we have completely shaken up the roster people are still surprised at some players not being moved.

 

[Hockeyfreak1970]

Allen is on a very short leash I would assume. Husso will undoubtedly shine in camp wrecking Allen's confidence. Could it be that they let Hutton go because Allen is a headcase when there's somebody playing better than him. When Elliot was here he regularly outplayed Allen and I feel he never responded well. If it comes down to pressure from behind I expect Husso to make things uncomfortable again for Jake. Only time will tell if letting Hutton move on hoping Allen will respond to being a true unchallenged starter works or not. I expect a swift tug on that leash if it gets ugly early on.

 

[David Dennison]

2 things
1. I think it is just as much coaching as it is psychology.
2. There were slim pickings in free agency or via trade.

 

[shpongle falls]

Overally Its not totally Allen problem, case is his goaltender style (flashy and aggressive) is not fitting for our defensive system. Blues system favors goaltender who rely being good open 1st shot, rebound control, and trust his defenders and not play aggressively (out of position).

I very much agree with this. He just needs to simplify his game a bit, when he was working with Brodeur it seemed like he just kept things simple and made the first save and kept his positioning square to the shooter.

A few other thoughts, when he's on his game he's a great goalie - he's good on breakaways/shootouts and he's an excellent puck handler/passer. He's shown that he can perform well in the playoffs. He's entering into his prime now and he had an off year last year, so did alot of other good goalies.

I don't think he's a 60+ games starter he seems to wear down after awhile, they need to keep him fresher throughout the season and keep him to 45-50ish games.

Allen is definitely on a short leash now, if he can find his game then great but if not they absolutely need to trade him. Husso is probably itching to get to the NHL and I can't wait to see how he looks with the Blues.

 

[TruBlu]

Goalie changes don't always make the team better. If Allen was a "bad" goalie, then I'd say move on to someone else. Ryan Miller was supposed to be the answer to our team when the trade was made. He's an established goalie (at the time), right? Let's not forget that the entire team went through a bad series of events last year. Perhaps, just perhaps, that also had an effect on a young starting goalie. Goaltending is the biggest issue now that the scoring issue has been addressed. I think Jake's numbers will skyrocket with the added talent this season.

 

[BlueDream]

Well, he has one more year to get his act together and find some consistency. If he can’t, he should be gone next summer.

 

[STL fan in MN]

It was a weird article. It was essentially, JR had determined Allen was doing something different this summer but nobody would tell him what it was but this other guy guessed it was seeing a sports psychologist.

It’s the logical guess though, especially with the supporting evidence. Assuming he is in fact seeing a sports psychologist, I hope it helps him. I see Allen as the main weak link on the team but since he’s our goalie I hope he plays fantastically and finds that consistency he needs.

 

[Dbrownss]

1. I would bet money that he didnt kick the tires because there wasnt a realistic replacement available that didnt come with their own closet for of skeletons. I do not doubt Army reassured Allen he wasn't going anywhere but not because he has unwaivering confidence in him.

2. Most likely.

3. Most likely pride. Allen seems like an oddball. Some people just dont want to admit things. If he wants to keep it a poorly kept secret, whatever.

4. No, not really. He's done it before, but he's also avoided blame too at times.

5. Yes, stop being bad.

Seriously though, he's incredibly skilled and under Brodeur he was outstanding. Find that and play at 75% of that the whole season and Allen will no longer be an issue.

I do believe him when he said he got in his own head when the team wasnt scoring.

 

[TheDizee]

it all about consistency with jake and not getting too down on himself. his top play was and is far superior than elliott's. problem is he tends to let garbage goals dictate his future play instead of shrugging it off.

hopefully this offense will be able to pick him up after he lets in a stinker, something prior teams almost never did.

 

[GoldenSeal]

I personally feel the reason Allen stayed is because there was no netminders available who are A) Starters, B) Good, C) wouldn't cost us assets to acquire and D) would have absolutely cost us assets if we decided to move Jake Allen in a cap dump manuever just to get him off the roster if we had decided to keep Hutton over him.

Like it or not, he's not going anywhere and with the upgrades up front, Chad Johnson backing up and Husso hopefully getting a few starts, we should be fine if Jake pulls another collapse.

 

[Evocable Manager]

He singlehandedly cost us the playoffs last year. All he had to do was stop a Duncan Keith muffin from the blue line with NO screen in front.

I said it.

Cause it's the god damn truth.

So I don't give a f*** what he does in the summer. He better not collapse mid season again. I'm sick of his shit.

I have zero faith in him as a goalie. He's never showed any true signs of being a competent #1 and has been average or slightly below average for all but 1 season. So until he legitimately takes on 55+ games where he's consistent and puts at least .915 I have no reason to have any hope he's capable of being the guy.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Ok, to answer my own questions:

1) No absolutely the wrong move. I think Allen can be better and even good, but we were never a fit for him and psychology can be slow and unsuccessful. Our skaters are poised to compete, but we need a goalie who can. Chad Johnson is absolutely not good enough to step in if Allen implodes again, and I don't want that pressure on Husso until he can play a season where he is the everyday starter in the AHL. In another Athletic article, the writer uses advanced stats (Wins above replacement) to see who had the best off-season. Our gains at forward were almost wiped out replacing Hutton with Johnson. Granted, its comparing a hot year for Hutts and a down one for Chad. I don't think the difference will be as extreme as last year, but it is still a big downgrade.

2) Yes, thats what I think it is. While Ithink it could be very helpful to him, I have reservations. When Allen was at his best, it was under Brodeur's tutelage. I remember a quote where he says that Brodeur was always reminding him to calm down and keep things simple. Hopefully the shrink will have the same effect. But just seeing him over the sumemr is not enough. As soon as Brodeur stopped being a constant precense, it all went out the window. Its on Jake to keep the training going all year. And I also just think he needs a different team as his skill set doesn't match what we want to do.

3) I think its a secret because it bothers him that fans call him a headcase. He mentioned fan reaction in the article a few times. We have been unkind to the guy who is a millionaire off the money we spend to watch the team win.At the end of last year he said any fan who calls him a headcase is a headcase. Now he is being force to see a shrink, and he doesn't want to admit, maybe he had some head issues, if not a headcase.

Nobody likes to be called a head case. No matter how much or how little you make. Also, I’m sure most people do not like to openly admit they are seeing a psychiatrist as it can be used against them for going out and seeking help. Sports head issues typically lie within confisdence issues. A lot of the best athletes you will find are very very good at trusting their instincts and acting on their instincts coupled with the skill that they have developed. Seeing as how Jake has a tremndous amount of skill as a goalie, and inconsistency is essentially the issue. I think it is fairly to say that it is either confidence or focus that he is lacking. A sports psych is a good place to start with that. I don’t think it’s right that we speculate on his decision to hide what he would like to hide in his own personal life, regardless if he makes $25,000 a year or 5 million.

4) Obviously not to me, which is why I asked. Armstrong made a lot of excuses saying he was bad only 4-5 weeks. And its true he is atrocious for only a small stretch, he is inconsistent and can be bad at any time. He talked about how he led us to the playoffs before, but he always did so in a platoon, and we never went anywhere. The goal isn't the playoffs. He talks about having to stick to his game, but I think there are issues to his game that need to be fixed as well.

5) He can, he has the skilll set. But I think he needs a different environment and a very hands on coach like Brodeur was. We have had good goalie coaches, so its not just being a good goalie coach. Corsi had great success in Buffalo but was a disaster here. I don't think 3 months of a shrink is going to be the fix. He needs that constant supervision.

 

[TruBlu]

He singlehandedly cost us the playoffs last year. All he had to do was stop a Duncan Keith muffin from the blue line with NO screen in front.

I said it.

Cause it's the god damn truth.

So I don't give a **** what he does in the summer. He better not collapse mid season again. I'm sick of his ****.

I have zero faith in him as a goalie. He's never showed any true signs of being a competent #1 and has been average or slightly below average for all but 1 season. So until he legitimately takes on 55+ games where he's consistent and puts at least .915 I have no reason to have any hope he's capable of being the guy.

Umm, no. One game doesn't make a season. I can go back and cherry pick two dozen other games where a defenseman or forward screwed up and failed to pot a goal, or got beaten for a goal, etc. Jake was part of the overall problem last season, not THE problem.

 

[simon IC]

That game was unforgivable. I agree we can't hang it all on Allen though, the whole team failed. There is no question in my mind, however, that the season was lost during that game. I blame the coaching. Really, what team blows a 3 goal lead, in a crucial game, in the third period, AT HOME? I called for Yeo's head after that game, and I stand by it. Absolutely, undeniably unforgivable!

 

[GoldenSeal]

I don't blame Jake Allen solely for last year. That team was a clusterf-k from top to bottom, coaching and all. I do blame him for his lackluster performance that contributed to not making the playoffs. We should be getting better results for 4m a year.

 

[HighNote]

I have faith in Allen quietly putting up solid numbers this year. We need him to just not be noticeable in a good way, and i think we're going to get that this year; nothing amazing, nothing terrible. I think what would do him the most help is to stop worrying about the team in front of him and to just stop the puck. Of course, that's easy for me to say...I don't blame the guy considering how awful our offense was last year.

 

[brokeu91]

As a psychiatrist, I feel like I should post something here. There's not a lot of evidence that sports psychology works. It's a pretty small field and no one is paying to fund these studies. Psychotherapy can be very helpful, but it does take a lot of work. There's an old joke we have: How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb? One, but the light bulb has to want to change. If Allen is indeed seeing a psychotherapist but is not willing to put in the work (which might be the case if you feel compelled to do it, but don't really want to) then he's not going to get any benefit from it. I'm not saying it couldn't be useful, I think it could. He seems to fall apart when a bad goal goes in, maybe with some counseling he might be a bit more resilient. However, he doesn't seem to listen to anyone other than Brodeur. I highly doubt Brodeur is giving him psychotherapy.

Of course we could all be completely wrong about this and the thing he's doing differently this summer is training with a different coach. Who knows? Hopefully whatever is different will make a change in his game.