GDT: ALL Vegas Expansion talk here -who do the Bruins protect

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WhalerTurnedBruin55

Fading out, thanks for the times.
Oct 31, 2008
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Would have protected C.Miller or McQuaid over K.Miller.

Would have traded something of value to Vegas for them to take Beleskey and his 3y at 3.8M off the Cap.

Let's see how it shakes out.

Only possible redeeming outcome, Vegas was allowed to take C. Miller in exchange for Beleskey being traded to Vegas for a late pick.
 

patty59

***************
Apr 6, 2008
18,632
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Lethbridge, Alberta
yes, ROG is gonna be our #1 next year :) (i do like him though, and he's a slam dunk 5/6 at least for me)

They do need a left shot on the bottom pair so hopefully he can play.

I don't buy the Collin Miller love affair, he doesn't really do anything out there. He can skate fast and shoot the puck hard, but he creates nothing. He looks great skating the puck out of his zone until he hits the red line, where he may as well just dump it in. I imagine if he was a force on the PP or putting up some decent pts they would have protected him, but he doesn't do those things.
 

Fenian24

Registered User
Jun 14, 2010
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over-spending on your bottom tier defense, and bottom line players totally defeats the purpose of the benefit of those ELC.. You use that savings for a top 4 D or top 6 forward.

McQuaid at 2.75 and Miller at 2.5 as your #5 or #6 is not a great way to spend your cash, IMO of course.

It's like me paying my assistant three times her worth because he can bake some bomb ass chocolate chip cookies.

Is there any other team in the NHL that has 5mil plus earmarked for their bottom pair defense?

But the cookies matter, at least to me :)

I understand the argument but where are they getting a top 4 D from? There isn't one if free agency and Sweeney ahs seemed reluctant at best to make a big deal since the Hamilton/Lucic deals.

I don't want Shattenkirk making top D money. I don't have a huge issue with real defensive depth even if it costs a bit. Another valid question would be where do the Bruins top six rank in cap money league wide?

In a couple years when Carlo and McAvoy are (hopefully) making big money you don't have he option of paying your bottom pair like you do today, they should be taking advantage of it and adding to the forward group.
 

Jean_Jacket41

Neely = HOF
Jun 25, 2003
25,502
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With the smurfs
I'd be shocked if they drafted more than five guys with deals over two years no matter what the price is

They need to reach the floor and also have NHL bodies to start the franchise. Not saying they would be interested in Beleskey specifically but McPhee already said they are open to take "bad contracts" from other teams for draft picks/prospect.

Bruins best available players for this draft are C.Miller and McQuaid.

What is better for Vegas?

Picking one of those or getting a 2nd to take Beleskey?
 

DarrenBanks56

Registered User
May 16, 2005
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They need to reach the floor and also have NHL bodies to start the franchise. Not saying they would be inmterested in Beleskey specifically but McPhee already said they are open to take "bad contracts" from other teams for draft picks/prospect.

Bruins best available players for this draft are C.Miller and McQuaid.

What is better for Vegas?

Picking one of those or getting a 2nd to take Beleskey?

Ill think they take McQuaid for sure
 

LouJersey

Registered User
Jun 29, 2002
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They need to reach the floor and also have NHL bodies to start the franchise. Not saying they would be inmterested in Beleskey specifically but McPhee already said they are open to take "bad contracts" from other teams for draft picks/prospect.

Bruins best available players for this draft are C.Miller and McQuaid.

What is better for Vegas?

Picking one of those or getting a 2nd to take Beleskey?

I would pick Chiller and keep him, or pick McQuaid and deal him to TOR, EDM or MON if I had a deal in place.

It would take a first at minimum to take Beleskey and why compound the mistake (I still think MB will have a good year) by giving something else away when you don't have cap issues.
 

Over the volcano

Registered User
Mar 10, 2006
34,052
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Watertown
Kmiller seems to have taken over the Andrew Ference role. Bottom pairing defenseman who can step up, good character, a few injuries, and a middle of the road contract that people flip out over.

It is interesting that Kmiller's and Cmiller were paired together more than they were with anyone else last year.

CMiller
67% offensive zone starts
100 minutes on the PP
16 minutes on the PK
13 pts

Kmiller had
55% offensive zone starts
3 minutes on the PP
116 minutes on the PK
13 pts
 

Hali33

Registered User
Oct 18, 2013
10,746
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Halifax, Nova Scotia
I don't have an issue with who they did not protect.

Ideally, only 1 of the 3 Millers/McQuaid are on the roster.

I don't think Colin has the hockey smarts to have a career in the NHL. Wasn't even enamoured with the offensive side of his game, certainly not enough to make up for the defensive mistakes.

Kevan is probably the one who can responsibly play the most minutes. Injuries are adding up and I do see the argument that it would be beneficial to move on from a multiyear contract.

McQuaid, I have a gut feeling they will take in the end and he's the guy that's hardest for me to see go, from purely an emotional, nostalgic standpoint. True Bruin, great team mate, all that stuff.

I'm ok with whoever goes. I hope 2 go, actually.
 

GloryDaze4877

Barely Irrelevant
Jun 27, 2006
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Just adding a bit of context, he was playing his offside with Colin as his partner most of the year and still had a couple more minutes average ice time per game than Colin. I think his low TOI is at least somewhat due to his partner getting zero trust in the defensive end.

So, now Killer's limited minutes are Chiller's fault? Sweet. That's a theory I have not seen up until this point.

I still keep waiting for the Pro-Killer crowd to explain to me why he averaged less minutes than McQ, a similar d-man?

Regardless of what happens, it comes down to this for me:

Going forward, is there anybody that doesn't think the plan is to go with Carlo and McAvoy as the Top 4 RHD? If that's the case, then McQ, Killer, and Chiller are going to be 3rd pair D (barring injury). You have two guys in McQ and Killer that bring similar attributes and are both capable of playing Top 4 minutes in a pinch. You also have Chiller, who is an enigma at this point.

Given the nature of the draft, if you protect Colin, you are only going to lose one of McQ or Killer, and will have the other as your 3rd pair D, with Chiller as the 7. If you lose Colin to Expansion, that leaves you with two very similar 3rd pair D that both make over $2.5m for multiple years (Chiller makes a mil), neither being much of a puck mover.

In the pipeline, barring any surprises, the closest D is probably O'Gara. He's a good skater, but still more of a stay at home guy, which you already get in 54/86. By my way of thinking, you protect the player that brings something you have less of, and in the B's case, that's definitely the PMD as opposed to a defensive guy.
 

Jean_Jacket41

Neely = HOF
Jun 25, 2003
25,502
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With the smurfs
I would pick Chiller and keep him, or pick McQuaid and deal him to TOR, EDM or MON if I had a deal in place.

It would take a first at minimum to take Beleskey and why compound the mistake (I still think MB will have a good year) by giving something else away when you don't have cap issues.

They may not have Cap issues but if they want to add a top forward in a trade this summer (say Landeskog), money has to go out. Beleskey is the obvious out but no team beside Vegas can or want to take his salary without sending another bad contract back.

It's Sweeney only chance to unload him. If not, Bruins are stuck with him and their only hope is that he finds his game back and that 16-17 was an anomaly caused by injuries...
 

Tampbear

Registered User
Apr 10, 2015
1,662
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Tampa
So, now Killer's limited minutes are Chiller's fault? Sweet. That's a theory I have not seen up until this point.

I still keep waiting for the Pro-Killer crowd to explain to me why he averaged less minutes than McQ, a similar d-man?

Regardless of what happens, it comes down to this for me:

Going forward, is there anybody that doesn't think the plan is to go with Carlo and McAvoy as the Top 4 RHD? If that's the case, then McQ, Killer, and Chiller are going to be 3rd pair D (barring injury). You have two guys in McQ and Killer that bring similar attributes and are both capable of playing Top 4 minutes in a pinch. You also have Chiller, who is an enigma at this point.

Given the nature of the draft, if you protect Colin, you are only going to lose one of McQ or Killer, and will have the other as your 3rd pair D, with Chiller as the 7. If you lose Colin to Expansion, that leaves you with two very similar 3rd pair D that both make over $2.5m for multiple years (Chiller makes a mil), neither being much of a puck mover.

In the pipeline, barring any surprises, the closest D is probably O'Gara. He's a good skater, but still more of a stay at home guy, which you already get in 54/86. By my way of thinking, you protect the player that brings something you have less of, and in the B's case, that's definitely the PMD as opposed to a defensive guy.

Man I don't know what to tell you, Julien had his defensive pairings and that is the pairing he trusted the least, for one guy in particular. I don't think Colin is useless either, simply he is years from being a top 4 D if he ever gets there, and is therefor not as valuable to a team with two rookies in the top 4. I don't think Vegas will select him either, and I think Boston protected Killer because they would rather lose McQuaid. I don't think both are back next year, and if Vegas chooses Colin I would expect McQuaid to be traded for an upgrade somewhere else, for reasons you have stated above.
 

Fenian24

Registered User
Jun 14, 2010
10,321
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I think it costs you a first to unload Belesky's contract. A healthy Belesky playing like he did two years ago is one of the few physical forwards on the team.

If you can get Vegas to take Belesky for a first but also get back Kyle Clifford or Chris Stewart I would probably do it. A large part of that is my disrespect for this upcoming draft but you save 3.8 in Belesky and get a tougher, similarly skilled player in Clifford or Stewart.
 

LouJersey

Registered User
Jun 29, 2002
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Graves to Gardens
youtu.be
They may not have Cap issues but if they want to add a top forward in a trade this summer (say Landeskog), money has to go out. Beleskey is the obvious out but no team beside Vegas can or want to take his salary without sending another bad contract back.

It's Sweeney only chance to unload him. If not, Bruins are stuck with him and their only hope is that he finds his game back and that 16-17 was an anomaly caused by injuries...

I don't think Vegas will touch him. He is ours IMO and will need to play to get his value to where it was. I think he's capable of another 15-16 type season.
 

GloryDaze4877

Barely Irrelevant
Jun 27, 2006
44,395
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The Sticks (West MA)
let's veer away from your stats and talk about what we see colin miller do on the ice. great skater, great shot. appears to have no clue how to get that shot on net (i think he had like 80 shots on goal on 300 attempts - there's some stats for you). appears to do well at leading the rush sometimes, but seems to skate himself into trouble a lot which tells me his hockey sense is lacking, to be kind.

he's a youngish guy and some of his defensive issues will improve by natural maturity, but i don't see his hockey sense improving. boychuk is maybe the only guy i can recall whose hockey sense improved a lot from what he was in providence. i think mcphee takes mcquaid personally. the bigger argument to me was why weren't we able to get a better #3 than kevan miller over the last few days?

They do need a left shot on the bottom pair so hopefully he can play.

I don't buy the Collin Miller love affair, he doesn't really do anything out there. He can skate fast and shoot the puck hard, but he creates nothing. He looks great skating the puck out of his zone until he hits the red line, where he may as well just dump it in. I imagine if he was a force on the PP or putting up some decent pts they would have protected him, but he doesn't do those things.

A few things:

1) I thought Krug was the B's #3, not Killer?

2) I don't see this love affair with Colin Miller that you and Fenian are referencing. People are well aware of what he is now. The ones that wanted him protected just think he may be able to become more down the line. FWIW, I think Chiller is still a B on Thursday despite not being protected.

3) I saw a fair amount of JB55 in PRO and his decision making in the AHL was far worse than Chiller's is at the NHL level. When I watch Colin Miller play, I see a guy that is playing like he's afraid to make a mistake. It reminds me a lot of when Sobotka was in Clode's dog house. The reason he doesn't make things happen IMO, is because he's worried about getting caught in the O zone. I can't tell you how many times I watched him bring the puck up and then instead of waiting to try to make something happen, he would make the "safe" play and dump it in. I think Chiller's biggest need at this point is a litte self confidence. He needs to be able to jump into a play and not be worried about getting benched if it doesn't work out.

Personally, I would love to see a 3rd pair of he and O'Gara. Think they would be lights out.
 

Seidenbergy

Registered User
Nov 2, 2012
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I still keep waiting for the Pro-Killer crowd to explain to me why he averaged less minutes than McQ, a similar d-man?

Less than 30 secs per game separated them last year. That's negligible and can be explained by several factors.

Looking back at the previous season, Kevan Miller actually averaged over a full minute more than McQuaid per game. Now that's noticeable.
 

GloryDaze4877

Barely Irrelevant
Jun 27, 2006
44,395
13,873
The Sticks (West MA)
Less than 30 secs per game separated them last year. That's negligible and can be explained by several factors.

Looking back at the previous season, Kevan Miller actually averaged over a full minute more than McQuaid per game. Now that's noticeable.

You know what else is noticeable, that Killer only played 58 games last year (McQ 77), which is about his average over the last three seasons.
 

Fenian24

Registered User
Jun 14, 2010
10,321
13,302
Let's see at the end of next year.

The same could have easily been said of McQuaid or K. Miller when they were Colin's age.

When McQuiad was C.Miller's age he played 67 games in the regular season and won a Stanley cup, also played every playoff game on way to the cup.
 

b in vancouver

Registered User
Jul 28, 2005
7,840
5,693
So, now Killer's limited minutes are Chiller's fault? Sweet. That's a theory I have not seen up until this point.

I still keep waiting for the Pro-Killer crowd to explain to me why he averaged less minutes than McQ, a similar d-man?

Regardless of what happens, it comes down to this for me:

Going forward, is there anybody that doesn't think the plan is to go with Carlo and McAvoy as the Top 4 RHD? If that's the case, then McQ, Killer, and Chiller are going to be 3rd pair D (barring injury). You have two guys in McQ and Killer that bring similar attributes and are both capable of playing Top 4 minutes in a pinch. You also have Chiller, who is an enigma at this point.

Given the nature of the draft, if you protect Colin, you are only going to lose one of McQ or Killer, and will have the other as your 3rd pair D, with Chiller as the 7. If you lose Colin to Expansion, that leaves you with two very similar 3rd pair D that both make over $2.5m for multiple years (Chiller makes a mil), neither being much of a puck mover.

In the pipeline, barring any surprises, the closest D is probably O'Gara. He's a good skater, but still more of a stay at home guy, which you already get in 54/86. By my way of thinking, you protect the player that brings something you have less of, and in the B's case, that's definitely the PMD as opposed to a defensive guy.

Well - Quaider's a better defencman.

As far as Carlo and McAvoy. I think most everyone would have them pencilled in as top 4 RHD going forward, probably next season - but I also think they need to have an option B. Young d-men struggle with consistency. Very good chance that during the season one or both have to have their minutes limited or even spend time in the press box. I don't like the idea of force-feeding minutes to kids simply because you haven't given yourself another option. it isn't good for them nor the team as mistakes can compound pretty quickly.

I've just seen too many promising/talented young defencmen struggle and then have the situation get worse because they have to play them 20 minutes a night.

Long story longer - I'm a lot more comfortable with K. Miller and McQuaid moving up the line-up or taking on more minutes than C. Miller.
 

neelynugs

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
35,389
9,756
A few things:

1) I thought Krug was the B's #3, not Killer?

2) I don't see this love affair with Colin Miller that you and Fenian are referencing. People are well aware of what he is now. The ones that wanted him protected just think he may be able to become more down the line. FWIW, I think Chiller is still a B on Thursday despite not being protected.

3) I saw a fair amount of JB55 in PRO and his decision making in the AHL was far worse than Chiller's is at the NHL level. When I watch Colin Miller play, I see a guy that is playing like he's afraid to make a mistake. It reminds me a lot of when Sobotka was in Clode's dog house. The reason he doesn't make things happen IMO, is because he's worried about getting caught in the O zone. I can't tell you how many times I watched him bring the puck up and then instead of waiting to try to make something happen, he would make the "safe" play and dump it in. I think Chiller's biggest need at this point is a litte self confidence. He needs to be able to jump into a play and not be worried about getting benched if it doesn't work out.

Personally, I would love to see a 3rd pair of he and O'Gara. Think they would be lights out.

1) i was talking about their protected list, assuming chara and krug are the 1 and 2.

2) agree, think mcphee takes mcquaid.

3) the one thing i would say to your comment about his fear of making a mistake - did you see any difference when cassidy took over? my guess is that cassidy doesn't really like his game either - he probably likes the skating and the shot (who doesn't?), but i never got the feeling he was a butch guy going back to providence last year. the jury is out and his skills are good enough to stick in the NHL for a while, i'm just not terribly concerned if we lose him.
 
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