All time teams - dream teams

JackSlater

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Apr 27, 2010
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As you wish.

This is all fantasy of course but....

I bet espo would end up not being a complimentary piece but one of the best players on this hypothetical team.

And I bet Mikita would see minimal ice time.

Espo would play himself into more icetime, I don't see Mikita doing that myself.

But we will never know.

Who? What centres does Esposito play himself past to get up the lineup? Gretzky? Lemieux? Beliveau? If you think that Esposito is one of the best players on this team, you must put him basically in the top 10 players of all time, which is massively overrating him.
 

jj cale

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Who? What centres does Esposito play himself past to get up the lineup? Gretzky? Lemieux? Beliveau? If you think that Esposito is one of the best players on this team, you must put him basically in the top 10 players of all time, which is massively overrating him.

The guy held the points and goal records until wayne came along.

Overrating him? cmon!!

Yes.......he could play himself past a guy like Beliveau, why not?

Geez, the guy was the leading light,the LEADER, the best player in the 72 Summit series and is an all time great.

Don't you think you may be under-rating him just a little?

Cmon Jack...................a little respect for the guy please.

There is no accounting for what a player like espo could do for a team like this...........he would just score big goals and make big plays, bank on it.

I'm surprised I am fighting for his inclusion on a team like this over a guy like Mikita with you, I would not have guessed that.
 

Namba 17

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May 9, 2011
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What, no Ovechkin?
I take chemistry above everything.
That's why I tried to keep proven lines and pares wherever possible.
Kovi - Dats - Malkin proved its effectiveness. Kovi has more options - he can play PK, for ex.
Maltsev can be C and RW.
The only one I can change for Ovi is Firsov, but I believe that Firsov was better defensively (besides, he has great international stats).
Yes, Ovi is arguably top-5 Russians of all time, but I couldn't find a place for him in my team. It happens, when you have so many great players - you need to cut someone:)
 

ulvvf

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May 9, 2014
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I can only judge players I have seen, plus hockey has change so muche compare to the old days. Just look at NHL, before it was baiscally just canadians in it, it is obvious that the level of NHL and hgockey in general has gone up by a lot

So my 90´s+ team

P Forsberg - Sundin - Näslund
Zetterberg - Bäckström -Alfredsson
Sedin - Sedin - Dahlen
Nylander - Jönsson - Franzen
Eriksson

Jönsson - Karlsson
Lidström - Hedman
OEL - Klingberg
Norström

Lundqvist
Salo
Söderström
 

JackSlater

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Apr 27, 2010
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The guy held the points and goal records until wayne came along.

Overrating him? cmon!!

Yes.......he could play himself past a guy like Beliveau, why not?

Geez, the guy was the leading light,the LEADER, the best player in the 72 Summit series and is an all time great.

Don't you think you may be under-rating him just a little?

Cmon Jack...................a little respect for the guy please.

There is no accounting for what a player like espo could do for a team like this...........he would just score big goals and make big plays, bank on it.

I'm surprised I am fighting for his inclusion on a team like this over a guy like Mikita with you, I would not have guessed that.

Absolutely overrating him, if you think he can be put in the lineup ahead of Beliveau (concensus top 10 player of all time) or that he is obviously better than Mikita (consensus top 20 player all time). The points record for a season is nice, but it's massively influenced by era (expansion diluting talent) and Orr. Funny thing is that Mikita actually held the reord before Esposito, while playing on the same team as (and greatly outscoring) Esposito himself. Being the best player in the Summit Series is also very positive for Esposito, no question. That was pretty weak for an edition of team Canada though. When Canada was much stronger (Canada Cup 1976) Esposito was far from the best player, though to be fair he was on the downslope of his career at that point. This has nothing to do with disrespecting Esposito, it's simply obvious that he wouldn't play ahead of Gretzky or Beliveau and can't play wing, so he wouldn't be in position to score the big goals that you theorize about. Mikita scores nearly as well as Esposito, defends far better and provides versatility that Esposito lacks, hence why he is a far better pick as a complimentary piece. There is a reason that Mikita is ahead of Esposito on The Hockey News' top 100 players list and every History of Hockey project done on this site.

I don't want this thread to devolve into just Esposito and Mikita, but it's pretty ignorant to imply that Esposito is a class above Mikita. They are players of the same tier, and that is a compliment to Esposito.
 

jj cale

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Absolutely overrating him, if you think he can be put in the lineup ahead of Beliveau (concensus top 10 player of all time) or that he is obviously better than Mikita (consensus top 20 player all time). The points record for a season is nice, but it's massively influenced by era (expansion diluting talent) and Orr. Funny thing is that Mikita actually held the reord before Esposito, while playing on the same team as (and greatly outscoring) Esposito himself. Being the best player in the Summit Series is also very positive for Esposito, no question. That was pretty weak for an edition of team Canada though. When Canada was much stronger (Canada Cup 1976) Esposito was far from the best player, though to be fair he was on the downslope of his career at that point. This has nothing to do with disrespecting Esposito, it's simply obvious that he wouldn't play ahead of Gretzky or Beliveau and can't play wing, so he wouldn't be in position to score the big goals that you theorize about. Mikita scores nearly as well as Esposito, defends far better and provides versatility that Esposito lacks, hence why he is a far better pick as a complimentary piece. There is a reason that Mikita is ahead of Esposito on The Hockey News' top 100 players list and every History of Hockey project done on this site.

I don't want this thread to devolve into just Esposito and Mikita, but it's pretty ignorant to imply that Esposito is a class above Mikita. They are players of the same tier, and that is a compliment to Esposito.

I am not going to convince you and you are not going to convince me.

I stand firm on Espo over Mikita but that's a judgement call.
 

Namba 17

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May 9, 2011
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Canada:

Messier - Gretzky - Bossy
Bobby Hull - Lemieux - Howe
Sakic - Yzerman - Richard
Trottier - Crosby - Esposito
Mikita, Lindros

Orr - Potvin
Bourque - Harvey
Pronger - Coffey
Robinson

Roy
Brodeur
Plante
 

tony d

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Jun 23, 2007
76,593
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Behind A Tree
My Team Canada

Hull-Gretzky-Howe
messier-Lemieux-Richard
Lindsay-Beliveau-bossy
Mahovlich-Mikita-Geoffrion

Orr-Harvey
Bourque-Potvin
Shore-Robinson

Roy
Sawchuk
 

Scotty B

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Jan 1, 2014
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Messier easily makes the team because of his LW experience. Keenan wrongly leaving Yzerman off the 1991 Canada Cup team (defensible in 1987 though) doesn't mean much to me. Esposito and Clarke play different roles. Clarke is Canada's, and probably history's, best defensive centre. Esposito isn't good enough to get one of Canada's offensive centre roles. Perreault always looked good internationally, no question, but he has to compete against ridiculous competition, including players who never or rarely played international hockey like Howe, Hull and Richard. Bossy I strongly considered, because a sniper who at least contributes defensively is always valuable. He can't make it over Richard or Howe though, doesn't really fit a checking line and I simply chose Yzerman over him. Lots of great players can't make the team. Difficult to leave players like Trottier, Lafleur, Hall or Coffey off.

If you want a truly gifted defensive forward, who shone in international competition and who may even be a threat to pot the odd goal, esp. on Big Ice, since he was such a great skater, Bob Gainey - who Victor Tikhonov (sp?) once called, Canada's Best Player - is your guy ...But my question...Why not have 4 scoring lines? Best defense is a good offense eh?

Two bits with Espo and Orr sharing the ice, TC would outscore the opposition BIG TIME...First line? second? third? fourth?...WHO CARES???
 

Scotty B

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Jan 1, 2014
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Messier for sure makes the team.

I can't fathom his choice of Mikita over a guy like Espo though.

Bad choice IMO. Espo has to be there.

Gilbert Perreault had much MUCH more God given talent than Messier , plus he proved in the 1981 Canada Cup he could play wing...His injury was a Big BIG blow to that version of TC...Can't see leaving him off an All Time Team
 

Scotty B

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Gilbert Perreault had much MUCH more God given talent than Messier , plus he proved in the 1981 Canada Cup he could play wing...His injury was a Big BIG blow to that version of TC...Can't see leaving him off an All Time Team

Centers: Gretz, Mario, Espo, Beliveau

Wingers Hull, Howe, Richard, Perreault , Crosby, Lafleur , Bossy , Sakic,

Extra Forwards Lindros, Yzerman

D: Orr, Potvin, Robinson, Bourque, Shore, Harvey, Park

Goal : Plante, Sawchuk, Roy

Line combos: Perreault, Gretzky, Lafleur…for starters ( an oldie but a goodie! )
 

JackSlater

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If you want a truly gifted defensive forward, who shone in international competition and who may even be a threat to pot the odd goal, esp. on Big Ice, since he was such a great skater, Bob Gainey - who Victor Tikhonov (sp?) once called, Canada's Best Player - is your guy ...But my question...Why not have 4 scoring lines? Best defense is a good offense eh?

Two bits with Espo and Orr sharing the ice, TC would outscore the opposition BIG TIME...First line? second? third? fourth?...WHO CARES???

I already have a gifted defensive forward in Clarke, who was also an Art Ross threat. No need for Gainey. The defensive line features two scoring champions, plus Bobby Clarke. Six Hart trophies on that line. Scoring wouldn't be a problem for any line. There are realities when constructing a team though, and some players need to be able to handle defensive situations.

Canada is going to outscore the opposition anyway when Orr is with whatever great players are on the team, there is nothing specific to Esposito that is needed. We can pick better or equivalent players who bring more to the table. Esposito needed to be the focal point of his offence to dominate, with lots of ice time and linemates suited to him. I give him a lot of credit for dominating, but no one on this team, other than arguably Gretzky, would be the focal point offensively.
 

jj cale

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Gilbert Perreault had much MUCH more God given talent than Messier , plus he proved in the 1981 Canada Cup he could play wing...His injury was a Big BIG blow to that version of TC...Can't see leaving him off an All Time Team

He might have had more god given talent but messier was messier.

He's on the team.........period.
 

xxxx

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Sep 20, 2012
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My team :)

Goaltenders:
Patrick Roy, Jacques Plante, Terry Sawchuk


Defensemen:
Bobby Orr - Eddie Shore
Denis Potvin - Ray Bourque
Doug Harvey - Paul Coffey
Larry Robinson


Forwards:
Mario Lemieux - Wayne Gretzky - Gordie Howe
Bobby Hull - Jean Beliveau - Mike Bossy
Phil Esposito - Stan Mikita - Mark Messier
Eric Lindros - Sidney Crosby - Steve Yzerman
Bobby Clarke




....I know I'm missing tons of great players...Morenz, Maurice Richard, Dionne...
....I'm making a room for Lindros because I think, at his best, he was really one of the best of all time....but something like Sakic-Crosby-Yzerman would be nice to see too, as a representative of the modern era.
 

Namba 17

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May 9, 2011
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Sweden:

Markus Naslund - Forsberg - Sundin
D.Sedin - H.Sedin - Kent Nilsson
Zetterberg - Backstrom - Alfredsson
Mats Naslund - Sven Tumba - Sandstrom
Loob, Steen

Lidstrom - Karlsson
Salming - Kronwall
Hedman - Ulf Samuelsson
OEL

Lundqvist
Salo
 

VMBM

And it didn't even bring me down
Sep 24, 2008
3,803
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Helsinki, Finland
Those are not all-time teams..

EDIT: I mean too many great players before 90s are missed. Especially for that Czech team.

EDIT 2: This would be my all-time Czech team, taking into account "greatness" and chemistry too.

Straka - Novy - Jagr
Jiri Holik - Lang - Nedomansky
Elias - Hlinka - Martinec
Prospal - Zabrodsky - Hejduk

Pospisil - Machac
Hamrlik - Suchy
Svoboda - Bubla

Hasek
Holecek
Vokoun

Can't help it, I just have a problem with Novy being on the top line and Martinec on the 3rd line.

Nedo was really (mostly) a career centre, so I would put him on the top line as a centre, make Novy the 2nd line centre and make Martinec the 2nd line RW; Novy and Martinec seemed to work well together in the 1976 CC (they played together often on PP, occasionally otherwise too) and 1977 World Championship.
 
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Scotty B

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Jan 1, 2014
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Centers: Gretz, Mario, Espo, Beliveau

Wingers Hull, Howe, Richard, Perreault , Crosby, Lafleur , Bossy , Sakic,

Extra Forwards Lindros, Yzerman

D: Orr, Potvin, Robinson, Bourque, Shore, Harvey, Park

Goal : Plante, Sawchuk, Roy

Line combos: Perreault, Gretzky, Lafleur…for starters ( an oldie but a goodie! )

I realized later that I'd forgotten Paul Coffey, but with no edit function never got around to rectifying things. He definitely belongs there imo. Ergo someone NOT named Orr , Potvin, Bourque or Robinson has to go...Shore's the only one on that list, I never saw play. However, I only saw Harvey near the end of his career...
 

86Habs

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May 4, 2009
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My All-Time Team Canada, limited to only those players who have represented Canada at international best-on-best competitions, and emphasizing international bodies of work and/or superlative performances at those tournaments over NHL performance:

Defence:
Bobby Orr - '76 CC (MVP)
Denis Potvin - '76 CC, '81 CC
Ray Bourque - '81 CC, '84 CC, '87 CC (AS), '98 OG
Paul Coffey - '84 CC (AS), '87 CC, '91 CC, '96 WC
Scott Niedermayer - '96 WC, '02 OG, '04 WC, '10 OG
Al MacInnis - '91 CC (AS), '98 OG, '02 OG
Rob Blake - '96 WC, '98 OG, '02 OG, '06 OG
Shea Weber - '10 OG (AS), '14 OG

Final cuts: Larry Robinson ('76, '81, '84 CCs); Adam Foote ('96 WC, '98 OG, '02 OG, '04 WC (AS), '06 OG); Drew Doughty ('10 OG, '14 OG (AS))

Forwards:
Wayne Gretzky - '81 CC, '84 CC (AS), '87 CC (MVP, AS), '91 CC (AS), '96 WC, '98 OG
Mark Messier - '84 CC, '87 CC, '91 CC, '96 WC
Mario Lemieux - '87 CC (AS), '02 OG, '04 WC
Joe Sakic - '96 WC, '98 OG, '02 OG (AS, Best Forward, MVP), '04 WC, '06 OG
Gilbert Perreault - '72 SS, '76 CC, '81 CC (AS)
Steve Yzerman - '84 CC, '96 WC, '98 OG, '02 OG
Phil Esposito - '72 SS, '76 CC
Mike Bossy - '81 CC (AS), '84 CC
Guy Lafleur - '76 CC, '81 CC
Theo Fleury - '91 CC, '96 WC, '98 OG, '02 OG
Eric Lindros - '91 CC, '96 WC, '98 OG, '02 OG
Jonathan Toews - '10 OG (Best Forward, AS), '14 OG
Sidney Crosby - '10 OG, '14 OG
Jarome Iginla - '02 OG, '04 WC, '06 OG, '10 OG

Final cuts: Brendan Shanahan ('91 CC, '96 WC, '98 OG, '02 OG), Dale Hawerchuk ('87 CC, '91 CC), Brent Sutter ('84 CC, '87 CC, '91 CC)

Goaltenders:
Martin Brodeur - '96 WC, '98 OG, '02 OG, '04 WC, '06 OG, '10 OG
Carey Price - '14 OG (Best Goaltender)
Bill Ranford - '91 CC (MVP, AS)

Final cut: Rogie Vachon ('76 CC (AS))

Lemieux - Gretzky "C" - Lafleur
Perreault - Sakic - Bossy
Toews - Messier "A" - Fleury
Yzerman - Esposito - Lindros
Crosby, Iginla

Orr - Potvin "A"
Bourque - MacInnis
Coffey - Weber
Niedermayer, Blake

Brodeur
Price
Ranford
 

JackSlater

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Apr 27, 2010
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12,718
My All-Time Team Canada, limited to only those players who have represented Canada at international best-on-best competitions, and emphasizing international bodies of work and/or superlative performances at those tournaments over NHL performance:

Defence:
Bobby Orr - '76 CC (MVP)
Denis Potvin - '76 CC, '81 CC
Ray Bourque - '81 CC, '84 CC, '87 CC (AS), '98 OG
Paul Coffey - '84 CC (AS), '87 CC, '91 CC, '96 WC
Scott Niedermayer - '96 WC, '02 OG, '04 WC, '10 OG
Al MacInnis - '91 CC (AS), '98 OG, '02 OG
Rob Blake - '96 WC, '98 OG, '02 OG, '06 OG
Shea Weber - '10 OG (AS), '14 OG

Final cuts: Larry Robinson ('76, '81, '84 CCs); Adam Foote ('96 WC, '98 OG, '02 OG, '04 WC (AS), '06 OG); Drew Doughty ('10 OG, '14 OG (AS))

Forwards:
Wayne Gretzky - '81 CC, '84 CC (AS), '87 CC (MVP, AS), '91 CC (AS), '96 WC, '98 OG
Mark Messier - '84 CC, '87 CC, '91 CC, '96 WC
Mario Lemieux - '87 CC (AS), '02 OG, '04 WC
Joe Sakic - '96 WC, '98 OG, '02 OG (AS, Best Forward, MVP), '04 WC, '06 OG
Gilbert Perreault - '72 SS, '76 CC, '81 CC (AS)
Steve Yzerman - '84 CC, '96 WC, '98 OG, '02 OG
Phil Esposito - '72 SS, '76 CC
Mike Bossy - '81 CC (AS), '84 CC
Guy Lafleur - '76 CC, '81 CC
Theo Fleury - '91 CC, '96 WC, '98 OG, '02 OG
Eric Lindros - '91 CC, '96 WC, '98 OG, '02 OG
Jonathan Toews - '10 OG (Best Forward, AS), '14 OG
Sidney Crosby - '10 OG, '14 OG
Jarome Iginla - '02 OG, '04 WC, '06 OG, '10 OG

Final cuts: Brendan Shanahan ('91 CC, '96 WC, '98 OG, '02 OG), Dale Hawerchuk ('87 CC, '91 CC), Brent Sutter ('84 CC, '87 CC, '91 CC)

Goaltenders:
Martin Brodeur - '96 WC, '98 OG, '02 OG, '04 WC, '06 OG, '10 OG
Carey Price - '14 OG (Best Goaltender)
Bill Ranford - '91 CC (MVP, AS)

Final cut: Rogie Vachon ('76 CC (AS))

Lemieux - Gretzky "C" - Lafleur
Perreault - Sakic - Bossy
Toews - Messier "A" - Fleury
Yzerman - Esposito - Lindros
Crosby, Iginla

Orr - Potvin "A"
Bourque - MacInnis
Coffey - Weber
Niedermayer, Blake

Brodeur
Price
Ranford

Even if you're only basing it on the versions of the players that participated in the tournaments, you pretty much have to include Bobby Hull. Plays on Canada's weaker side, provides rare pure goal scoring ability and was probably the best forward on the 1976 team.
 

DN28

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Jan 2, 2014
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Can't help it, I just have a problem with Novy being on the top line and Martinec on the 3rd line.

Nedo was really (mostly) a career centre, so I would put him on the top line as a centre, make Novy the 2nd line centre and make Martinec the 2nd line RW; Novy and Martinec seemed to work well together in the 1976 CC (they played together often on PP, occasionally otherwise too) and 1977 World Championship.

I know but I can´t imagine Nedomansky fitting well with Jagr. A lot of ego at the expense of defense :). Novy - despite his advantages - wasn´t strong puck possesion player IMO, and he actually played with & mentored Jagr in Kladno in late 80s...

Moving Nedomansky to RW enables to have Zabrodsky in the line-up where he likely should be (I wouldn´t pick any remaining Czech RW instead of him). Martinec is kind of buried there but his line would be pretty effective/exciting IMO. Maybe just swap 2nd and 3rd line?
 

authentic

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Jan 28, 2015
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Lemieux-Gretzky-Howe
Lindros-Crosby-Lafleur
Yzerman-Sakic-Iginla
Messier-Clarke-Trottier

Orr-Bourque
Potvin-Pronger
Stevens-Robinson

Roy
Brodeur

That team has a combination of skill and toughness that wouldn't be remotely close to being matched by any other country, especially the defense.
 
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86Habs

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May 4, 2009
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Even if you're only basing it on the versions of the players that participated in the tournaments, you pretty much have to include Bobby Hull. Plays on Canada's weaker side, provides rare pure goal scoring ability and was probably the best forward on the 1976 team.

Yeah, fair point about Bobby Hull. Putting the team together I found that we were comparatively weaker on the left side (which is why I had Lemieux and Yzerman out of position....though definitely not a stretch to assume they could do so) and Hull would help out in that regard. He'd look good on a line with Gretzky and Mario. I thought he was probably our best forward in 1976 also (Perreault would be the other), though in my (admittedly) brief analysis I focused more on guys who had represented Canada numerous time, whereas Hull only had the one tournament in 1976. It was a fun exercise looking back at the old rosters and the composition of the teams under different managers and coaches.

Lemieux-Gretzky-Howe
Lindros-Crosby-Lafleur
Yzerman-Sakic-Iginla
Messier-Clarke-Trottier

Orr-Bourque
Potvin-Pronger
Chelios-Robinson

Roy
Brodeur

That team has a combination of skill and toughness that wouldn't be remotely close to being matched by any other country, especially the defense.

One of those things is not like the others....
 

authentic

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Jan 28, 2015
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Yeah, fair point about Bobby Hull. Putting the team together I found that we were comparatively weaker on the left side (which is why I had Lemieux and Yzerman out of position....though definitely not a stretch to assume they could do so) and Hull would help out in that regard. He'd look good on a line with Gretzky and Mario. I thought he was probably our best forward in 1976 also (Perreault would be the other), though in my (admittedly) brief analysis I focused more on guys who had represented Canada numerous time, whereas Hull only had the one tournament in 1976. It was a fun exercise looking back at the old rosters and the composition of the teams under different managers and coaches.



One of those things is not like the others....

Who would that be?
 

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