All-Time International Teams

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Bhrangerfan0809, Feb 17, 2016.

  1. Bhrangerfan0809

    Bhrangerfan0809 Registered User

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    Here's my rough draft of all-time international teams for various countries:

    Canada
    Bobby Hull - Wayne Gretzky - Gordie Howe
    Ted Lindsay - Mario Lemieux - Maurice Richard
    Frank Mahovlich - Jean Beliveau - Guy Lafleur
    Cy Denneny - Howie Morenz - Bill Cook

    Bobby Orr - Doug Harvey
    Ray Bourque - Eddie Shore
    Denis Potvin - Red Kelly

    Patrick Roy
    Jacques Plante

    Canada B
    Dickie Moore - Stan Mikita - Mike Bossy
    Aurele Joliat - Mark Messier - Charlie Conacher
    Toe Blake - Bobby Clarke - Bernie Geoffrion
    Busher Jackson - Frank Nighbor - Andy Bathgate

    Larry Robinson - Brad Park
    King Clancy - Paul Coffey
    Sprague Claghorn - Pierre Pilote

    Glenn Hall
    Terry Sawchuk

    Czech Republic
    Patrik Elias - Vaclav Nedomansky - Jaromir Jagr
    Jiri Holik - Milan Novy - Vladimir Martinec
    Jaroslav Pouzar - Vladimir Zabrodsky - Milan Hejduk
    Stanislav Konopasek - Ivan Hlinka - Petr Sykora

    Jan Suchy - Frantisek Pospisil
    Jiri Bubla - Roman Hamrlik
    Frantisek Tikal - Oldrich Machac

    Dominik Hasek
    Jiri Holecek

    HM: C Martin Straka, C Josef Malecek, G Jiri Kralik, C Robert Lang, RW Vlastimil Bubnik, D Tomas Kaberle, D Petr Svoboda, C Bobby Holik, LW Martin Rucinsky, C Robert Reichel, LW Vaclav Prospal

    Finland
    Esa Tikkanen - Saku Koivu - Teemu Selanne
    Jussi Jokinen - Mikko Koivu - Jari Kurri
    Niklas Hagman - Olli Jokinen - Jere Lehtinen
    Petri Skriko - Matti Hagman - Sami Kapanen

    Teppo Numminen - Kimmo Timmonen
    Reijo Ruotsalainen - Jyrki Lumme
    Risto Siltanen - Janne Niinimaa

    Miikka Kiprusoff
    Urpo Yvonnen

    HM: G Pekka Rinne, G Tuukka Rask, G Antti Niemi, G Kari Lehtonen, G Niklas Backstrom, G Jarmo Myllys, D Pekka Rautakallio, D Toni Lydman, D Sami Vatanen, D Olli Maatta, D Joni Pitkanen, D Ossi Vaananen, D Janne Laukkanen, LW Ville Peltonen, LW Tuomo Ruuttu, LW Ville Nieminen, LW Sean Bergenheim, LW Lauri Korpikoski, LW Antti Laaksonen, C Raimo Helminen, C Jori Lehtera, C Christian Ruuttu, C Valtteri Filppula, C Teuvo Teravainen, C Niko Kapanen, RW Ilkka Sinisalo, RW Antti Miettinen, RW Mikko Makela

    Germany
    Marco Sturm - Erich Kuhnhackl - Tobias Reider
    Jochen Hecht - Leon Draisaitl - Alois Schloder
    Dieter Hegen - Marcel Doc - Helmut Steiger
    Franz Reindl - Gerd Truntschka -

    Christian Ehrhoff - Dennis Seidenberg
    Uwe Krupp - Uli Heißer
    Udo Kiessling -

    Olaf Kolzig
    Thomas Greiss

    HM: LW Ernst Hofner

    Latvia
    Martins Karsums - Sergei Zholtok - Helmuts Balderis
    - Zemgus Girgensons -
    - - -
    - - -

    Sandis Ozolins - Karlis Skrastins
    Oskars Bartulis - Arturs Kulda
    - -

    Arturs Irbe
    -

    Poland
    Wojtek Wolski - Mariusz Czerkawski
    Krzysztof Oliwa - -
    - - -
    - - -

    - -
    - -
    - -

    Peter Sidorkiewicz
    -

    Russia
    Alexander Ovechkin - Sergei Fedorov - Sergei Makarov
    Valeri Kharlamov - Alexander Maltsev - Boris Mikhailov
    Anatoli Firsov - Pavel Datsyuk - Pavel Bure
    Vladimir Krutov - Evgeni Malkin - Alexander Mogilny

    Slava Fetisov - Valeri Vasiliev
    Alexei Kasatanov - Vladimir Konstantinov
    Sergei Zubov - Alexander Ragulin

    Vladislav Tretiak
    Viktor Konovalenko

    HM: G Nikolai Khabibulin, G Vladimir Myshkin, G Ilya Bryzgalov, G Semyon Varlamov, G Sergei Bobrovsky, D Vladimir Lutchenko, D Nikolai Sologubov, D Vitaly Davydov, D Sergei Gonchar, D Andrei Markov, D Alexei Zhitnik, D Ruslan Salei, D Darius Kasparaitis, D Fedor Tyutin, D Anton Volchenkov, LW Veniamin Alexandrov, LW Sergei Kapustin, LW Vsevolod Bobrov, LW Alexander Yakushev, LW Alexander Semin, LW Valeri Kamensky, LW Dmitri Khristich, LW Sergei Samsonov, C Vladimir Petrov, C Igor Larionov, C Vyacheslav Starshinov, C Vyacheslav Kozlov, C Alexei Yashin, C Alex Zhamnov, C Viktor Kozlov, RW Ilya Kovalchuk, RW Alex Kovalev, RW Valeri Bure

    Slovakia
    Pavol Demitra - Peter Stastny - Marian Hossa
    Igor Liba - Jozef Golonka - Peter Bondra
    Ladislav Nagy - Jozef Stumpel - Marian Gaborik
    Miroslav Satan - Michal Handzus - Ziggy Palffy

    Zdeno Chara - Lubomir Visnovsky
    Andrej Meszaros - Andrej Sekera
    Robert Svehla - Milan Jurcina

    Vladimir Dzurilla
    Jaroslav Halak

    Sweden
    Markus Naslund - Peter Forsberg - Daniel Alfredsson
    Daniel Sedin - Mats Sundin - Hakan Loob
    Ulf Sterner - Henrik Zetterberg - Bengt-Ake Gustafsson
    Mats Naslund - Henrik Sedin - Anders Hedberg

    Nicklas Lidstrom - Borje Salming
    Lennart Svedberg - Erik Karlsson
    Calle Johansson - Victor Hedman

    Henrik Lundqvist
    Pelle Lindbergh

    HM: G Peter Lindmark, G Tommy Salo, G Johan Hedberg, D Mattias Ohlund, D Ulf Samuelsson, D Mattias Norstrom, D Niklas Kronwall, D Kim Johnsson, D Fredrik Olausson, D Stefan Persson, D Tomas Jonsson, D Kjell Samuelsson, D Kenny Jonsson, D Tommy Albelin, D Alexander Edler, D Toby Enstrom, D Marcus Ragnarsson, D Anders Eriksson, D Niclas Wallin, D Lars Lindgren, LW Tomas Holmstrom, LW P.J. Axelsson, LW Loui Eriksson, LW Johan Franzen, LW Fredrik Modin, LW Kristian Huselius, LW Ulf Dahlen, LW Johan Garpenlov, LW Magnus Arvedson, LW Jonas Hoglund, LW Jorgen Pettersson, LW Mikael Andersson, C Sven Tumba, C Michael Nylander, C Nils Nilsson, C Kent Nilsson, C Nicklas Backstrom, C Samuel Pahlsson, C Pelle Eklund, C Ulf Nilsson, C Thomas Gradin, C Patrik Sundstrom, C Juha Widing, RW Tomas Sandstrom, RW Mikael Samuelsson, RW Anders Kallur, RW Mikael Renberg, RW Bo Lindstrom, RW Niklas Sundstrom, RW Andreas Dackell, RW Willy Lindstrom, RW Patric Hornqvist

    USA
    John LeClair - Mike Modano - Brett Hull
    Keith Tkachuk - Jeremy Roenick - Patrick Kane
    Zach Parise - Pat LaFontaine - Cecil Dillon
    Kevin Stevens - Neal Broten - Joe Mullen

    Chris Chelios - Brian Leetch
    Mark Howe - Rod Langway
    Phil Housley - Gary Suter

    Frank Brimsek
    Tom Barrasso

    HM: G John Vanbiesbrouck, G Tim Thomas, D Kevin Hatcher, D Derian Hatcher, D Brian Rafalski, D Al Iafrate, D Gordie Roberts, D Mathieu Schneider, D Brooks Orpik, D Lee Fogolin, D Mike O'Connell, D Mike Ramsey, D Paul Martin, D Bret Hedican, D Ryan Suter, D Ron Hainsey, D Tom Poti, D Ken Klee, D Reed Larson, D Sean Hill, D Hal Gill, LW Jason Blake, LW Bobby Ryan, LW Johnny Gaudreau, LW James van Riemsdyk, LW Paul Ranheim, LW Kelly Miller, LW Erik Cole, LW Donald Brashear, C Brian Rolston, C Doug Weight, C Joe Pavelski, C Ryan Kesler, C Todd Marchant, C Scott Gomez, C Bob Carpenter, C Chris Drury, C Joel Otto, C Craig Conroy, C Craig Janney, C Ed Olczyk, C Matt Cullen, C David Legwand, C Tim Connolly, C Jeff Halpern, RW Phil Kessel, RW Scott Young, RW Dave Christian, RW Brian Gionta, RW Tony Granato, RW Tom Fitzgerald, RW Jamie Langenbrunner, RW Shawn McEachern, RW Dustin Brown, RW Ryan Callahan, RW Bill Lindsay, RW Mike Grier


    As you can see, I included a few less-successful countries (Germany, Latvia, Poland) just because I wanted some help with filling those out. I'm choosing these players based solely on their positions (obviously Canada could've had more talented players - namely centers - take up forward spots on the wings, but I stuck with the positions they mainly played during their careers). Additionally, it doesn't matter if I listed a defenseman on the left or right side. Finally, as you guys suggest changes/additions/omissions, I'll update the OP.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
  2. Sprague Cleghorn

    Sprague Cleghorn User Registered

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    A few suggestions/questions for the Czech Republic:

    1. Ivan Hlinka as the 4th line C for team Czech Republic that way you can because he's better and (see below)

    2. Replace Konopasek for Straka since he played LW too, and he's probably better than Konopasek.

    3. Is Bubnik better than Hejduk or someone like Sykora?

    4. One of Tikal, T. Kaberle or Svoboda over Kubina. Maybe even Machac too.
     
  3. Thenameless

    Thenameless Registered User

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    Czech Republic: Bobby Holik might be better as a 4th line centreman than Straka; he excelled in the role as a guy who could cover opposing forwards, win faceoffs, and bring a physical game. Had some offensive talent too; respectable numbers during the dead puck era with limited ice time. Should at least be an honourable mention.
     
  4. Bhrangerfan0809

    Bhrangerfan0809 Registered User

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    Thanks for the critiques, guys! First post has been updated.
     
  5. Boxscore

    Boxscore Registered User

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    I'll tackle Russia (/Soviets):

    First thing - you simply cannot break up the super units, regardless of elite "names" that deserve to be on the squad. The magic elixir of those Soviet teams was their almost inhumane chemistry - we can't tinker with that. So I go...

    Krutov - Larionov - Makarov
    Mogilny - Fedorov - Bure
    Kharlamov - Malkin - Firsov
    Ovechkin - Datsyuk - Mikhailov

    Fetisov - Kasatonov
    Vasiliev - Ragulin
    Konstantinov - Zubov

    Tretiak
    Khabibulin

    ... I think this is the way you need to go with Russia. The top 2 lines are super combos that have proven to be deadly together. The top D pairing was among the greatest D pairings in hockey history. Then you have the "freelancers"...

    Kharlamov, Ovechkin and Malkin will go down among some of the greatest pure talents in hockey history. Datsyuk is a magician and 200 foot dynamo. Firsov was lethal and Mikhailov was gifted and nasty; built for a North American match-up.

    Between the pipes, Tretiak was one of the best at the position... ever. And Khabibulin was a "modern" version of Russian netminders who had a wonderful skill set.

    When it comes to the Soviets, we need to capitalize on chemistry. And, because of the chemistry, I'd put this squad up against any all-time nation squad! They might lose a long tournament to Canada thanks to Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe and Orr alone, but they are the only team that could give them a legit run for their money IMO.
     
    pbgoalie likes this.
  6. Sprague Cleghorn

    Sprague Cleghorn User Registered

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    You said no tinkering with chemistry but you broke up Kharlamov and Mikhailov and you don't have Petrov?
     
  7. Boxscore

    Boxscore Registered User

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    This is true. I meant to have Mikhailov with Kharlamov but missed Petrov altogether. I'll move Malkin to RW with the new school guys.

    Krutov - Larionov - Makarov
    Mogilny - Fedorov - Bure
    Kharlamov - Petrov - Mikhailov
    Ovechkin - Datsyuk - Malkin

    Fetisov - Kasatonov
    Vasiliev - Ragulin
    Konstantinov - Zubov

    Tretiak
    Khabibulin
     
  8. Sprague Cleghorn

    Sprague Cleghorn User Registered

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    Honestly, I believe if you have much better players then you take them irregardless of chemistry or else you end up stapling Kunitz to Crosby's ass every time. If the two players are close then yeah keep the old guy.

    In the case of Russia/Soviet Union, Mogilny just sticks out like a sore thumb to me. I'd keep the KPM line as they're all comfortably top-12 FW in Russian history. I'd honestly look to break up the KLM line since I honestly believe there are much better players than Larionov. Larionov was known for his high hockey IQ, the chessmaster as he's called, and for playing a good two way game. Well, you know who else has better IQ and a two way game, Datsyuk (you have them on the team already but stick with me). I really find it hard to believe that Makarov, a top-10 W (great players can play with anyone, right?) and someone like Krutov are going to play worse with someone better than Larionov.

    That opens up one spot, and now to make two spots with the removal of Mogilny. What was Mogilny's play style? High skill level, great skater with a deadly shot. Well, Ovechkin meets all those criteria too except he can also hit, is great at forechecking, and has an even better shot.

    So, now the two spots can be filled with more deserving players such as Firsov and Maltsev. End product:

    Kharlamov - Petrov - Mikhailov
    Krutov - Datsyuk - Makarov
    Ovechkin - Fyodorov - Bure
    Firsov - Malkin - Maltsev

    They also all play in familiar positions too to boot.
     
  9. Hennessy

    Hennessy Blank Space

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    I also love EA Sports and a lazy outlook.

    No...really? You OP this thread and leave lines blank? WTF? Maybe you should re-think this, let alone where you placed it. Or you know, read. Which is awesome. I have learned a lot from this forum. You might, too.
     
  10. Bhrangerfan0809

    Bhrangerfan0809 Registered User

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    This deals directly with the history of hockey, so I'm not sure what your snark is emanating from. I mean, you could've contributed something to this thread, which is customary to say the least. Anyways, I mentioned this is a rough draft (first sentence in the OP, you can go back and read it). I'm just looking for some community critique, which everyone else who has posted in this thread has provided. Hope your attitude improves!
     
  11. VMBM

    VMBM Touch a mountain... m'kay?

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    Yeah, there's irony for you.

    I'd also much rather break up the KLM line than MPK. I agree that with Datsyuk at centre the line would be even more devastating... just an absolute nightmare for the opponents! :amazed:

    BTW, Maltsev played in some tournaments/games with Mikhailov and Kharlamov (Petrov injured or 'banned' etc), and from what I've seen, the results were mixed; sometimes the line looked better, or at least as good, sometimes worse. At least I can say that the Soviets never lost to Poland when Mikhailov and Kharlamov played together with Petrov (I'm referring to this, of course)!
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
  12. bobholly39

    bobholly39 Registered User

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    I think there's a strong argument to be made for Crosby on team Canada A. I'm surprised you don't even have him on team B. That's a bit of a stretch.
     
  13. I'd flip Lafontaine and Modano, for play style and for skill level.

    Way too many oldies no one has seen on Canada's teams aswell, not that they should be forgotten but how can anyone say they'd take Morenz over Crosby,Sakic,Yzerman ect

    Or if you're going for the perfect 4c route either H.Richard or Dave Keon
     
  14. crazy8888

    crazy8888 Registered User

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    No Crosby on even Canada's "B" team? I think he deserves a spot there somewhere
     
  15. GMR

    GMR Registered User

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    Kovalchuk is better than Mogilny. Chemistry or not, I'd have him take Mogilny's spot, though not necessarily on that line.

    Also, for Sweden, I'd put Holmstrom in there somewhere. Especially if we're talking about some kind of super series between international teams or a playoff. The guy could do things no other player for Sweden would be able to match. He was a unique player, even if not the most skilled guy. I'd put him in the lineup for the powerplay alone.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
  16. Vitkovice*

    Vitkovice* Guest

    Hejduk and Bobby Holik don't really belong.

    One was a great club player who, except for spring 2003, never really delivered for the NT (though he wasn't given much of a chance), the other played well for the NT as a junior and then changed the citizenship.

    Even Petr Sykora would be a bit suspect.

    Of their generation, I liked Reichel, Rucinsky, Prospal, Straka, Dopita, Patera, Prochazka and probably many more much better.
     
  17. Khomutov

    Khomutov Registered User

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    Maybe Kovalchuk had a better NHL career than Mogilny, but Mogilny for me is still the better player.
     
  18. Boxscore

    Boxscore Registered User

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    I agree. Mogilny can play within a team's framework - Kovalchuk always has been, and always will be, a soloist. He likes lugging the puck and doing everything on his own. Mogilny is a superior team player and can pass and shoot equally as great.
     
  19. GMR

    GMR Registered User

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    If we're talking about putting a team together for a competition, I'm not so sure I wouldn't put Yakushev above both of those guys. He was great in the Summit Series and his size would be a big plus against Canada or USA.
     
  20. GMR

    GMR Registered User

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    See my other post. Bobby Holik is a no-brainer choice, especially if you're playing against Canada or USA. He was a big forward who excelled on faceoffs and was great defensively. Also, had lots of big game experience (maybe more than any Czech player on these lists). I'd put him on my team any day as a shut down guy.
     
  21. DN28

    DN28 Registered User

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    Nah. Let´s not overrate Holik´s defensive contributions here. His top 10 Selke finishes were only 5., 7., 9. and only once he was in top 10 all-star voting.

    If we´re comparing him with other Czech centers from his era. Straka and Prospal were reliable defensively too and clearly better offensively. Lang and Straka peaked so high vis-a-vis Holik that they have to be there instead of him.

    As for his "big game experience", I´m not sure how good he was in playoffs, but he did absolutely nothing internationally unlike forwards mentioned above.

    From 90s-00s Czech forwards, at "all-time Czech team" Jagr, Elias, Straka, Hejduk, Prospal and Lang have to be there. No room for Holik here.

    Holik belongs somewhere in Sykora, Reichel, Nedved territory...
     
  22. GMR

    GMR Registered User

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    If I have a team full of skilled stars, I'm willing to sacrifice one of them to make room for a player like Holik. He might not have high finishes in Selke voting, but I think most people would say he was much better defensively than Straka or Prospal. You gotta have someone that can be a shut down guy against the top centers from other countries.

    Holik is a much different player than Holmstrom, but my post about him has a similar theme. A guy with intangibles that no one else on the team quite has, that should be in the lineup, even if it meant sacrificing a more skilled player in his place.

    If I'm playing against the other top countries, I'm not just going to load my roster with guys who demand lots of ice time and are all skill, no grit guys. Someone has to be the grinder or shut down player.
     
  23. DN28

    DN28 Registered User

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    Straka and Prospal are your typical 'no skill - full grit guys'. Players who didn´t have much talent (Holik was more talented in their junior years) but were willing to do anything coach asked them. Especially Prospal was very dedicated player whom every coach loved and he always overachieved on international scene.

    Prospal and Straka were, I think, pretty solid PKers too. I believe Holik didn´t play much PK actually.
     
  24. Munchkin10

    Munchkin10 Registered User

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    I would add Uwe Krupp, and Tobias Rieder.
     
  25. decma

    decma Registered User

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    Room for Uli Heimer as well?
     

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