All-time Draft 1st Round: Adler Mannheim vs New Jersey Devils

Discussion in 'All Time Draft' started by BM67, May 22, 2007.

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  1. BM67

    BM67 Registered User

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    New Jersey Devils
    Coach: Pat Burns

    Bun Cook - Frank Boucher - Bill Cook
    Bill Barber - Vladimir Petrov - Alexander Maltsev
    Jack Walker - Mickey MacKay - Bob Nevin
    John Tonelli - Trevor Linden - Ron Duguay
    Jack Marshall

    Larry Robinson - Bob Goldham
    Viacheslav Fetisov - Red Dutton
    Reed Larson - Ernie Johnson
    Lester Patrick

    Chuck Rayner
    Lorne Chabot
    Glenn Resch


    vs.


    Adler Mannheim
    Coach: Arkady Chernyshev

    Anatoli Firsov - Peter Forsberg - Sergei Fedorov
    Jiri Holik - Vyacheslav Starshinov - Lanny McDonald
    Craig Ramsay - Don Luce - Danny Gare
    Johnny Gottselig - Mike Ricci - Cliff Koroll
    Erich Kühnhackl

    Nicklas Lidström - Börje Salming
    Viktor Kuzkin- Vitaly Davydov
    Uwe Krupp - Frantisek Pospisil
    Matthias Norström

    Jiri Holecek
    Andy Moog
    Karl Friesen​
     
    Last edited by moderator Nalyd Psycho: May 22, 2007
  2. Murphy

    Murphy Registered User

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    I love Salming, I love Lanny and Moog, repect Lidstrom but.....

    I question if this dressing room can really come together and go to war come playoff time. I can't say this without sounding like an ignorant dumbass hick but I'm not sold the league of nations going against such a tough team as the Devils. I just imagine to myself Chernyshev giving orders and Ramsey & Luce looking at each other dumbfounded and then going on their way doing what they know best.

    I found it impossible to draft and assemble a team that is strong in all aspects of the game but the boss seems to have found a way. I think barring something unforseen of Holecek stealing the series that the Devils should take this one in 5
     
  3. Nalyd Psycho

    Nalyd Psycho Registered User

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    Well, seeing as Mannheim has a HUUUUUGE advantage in goal, that wouldn't surprise me.

    I really like Mannheim's team, one of the few to really commit to a smart defensive style that is very tough to overcome and I don't think the Devils or Pat Burns can do it. I see Mannheim winning easily.
     
  4. Wisent

    Wisent Registered User

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    Chernyshev is actually an excellent coach whose strong point is dealing with players on a very good basis. That is why I chose him. He has a tactical mastermind of Tarasov but unlike him, he had a knack of reaching players without threatening them. If Luce and Ramsay are dedicated to playing hockey systematically (as Nalyd said, this team is gonna play a defensive system, all 4 lines could play penalty kill in an all timer and wouldn`t be bad) they would have zero problems with Chernyshev.

    I like this matchup as it came totally unexpected to me. I thought I didn`t make the play-offs.
     
  5. pitseleh

    pitseleh Registered User

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    Not much talk about this series.

    I really like the fact that you reunited Ramsay-Luce-Gare. I really think it's the perfect foil to the Bread Line.

    The Devils will need Robinson and Fetisov along with their solid defensive defensemen to really keep the quality scoring chances down. This series will definitely be a defensive battle.

    Adler will need very balanced scoring. It's going to be tough to generate chances against New Jersey, so they'll need contributions from all four lines (which is entirely within their grasp) in order to defeat the Devils.
     
  6. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    What's with the silence in this series? Is BM that confident? I'm used to BM and Wiser talking lots.

    Perhaps the best match-up of the first round is the Bread Line vs. Mannheim's checking line. The Bread Line might be the second-best line in the draft, after the Maroons Punch Line. Wisent has the best two-way line in the draft. Whoever wins this match-up will go a long ways in determining the series winner. One thing to watch: nobody knows Ramsay and Luce better than BM. He's had that duo before. BM knows their strengths. He knows their weaknesses. And after watching Gordie Howe go gang-busters in Game 7 of the last draft's final, BM knows that he can get past Ramsay.

    BM's team is almost bullet-proof. Great defence with two of the top 10 blue-liners ever. Four excellent, well-built lines. But they do have a weakness: goaltending. Not that Rayner's a bad goalie, but he's in the bottom quarter for No. 1 goalies in this draft. Wiser has very potent scorers on the top two lines, and a two-time 50-goal scorer on his two way line. Wiser also has some good offensive potential on his defence. It'll be a good test for Rayner, especially if Wisent can figure out New Jersey's tough defence.
     
  7. Wisent

    Wisent Registered User

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    It is true, the Devils have 2 of the top10 dman in his lineup but Mannheim has one of them too and overall Mannheim`s defense should be the better one as a Kuzkin/Davydov pair has the advantage over Dutton and Goldham. Also, Mannheim has Pospisil in the bottom pair, he will get some great chances as he is playing against the weakest line of the Devils. My top4 log the minutes against the stars. I give the edge to Mannheim in the defense.

    In goaltending you have Mannheim`s Holecek against the Devils Rayner. Now Rayner is not a bad goalie at all but I have to give Mannheim the edge here is well. Holecek is for me a top10 goalie (for me even higher rated than Tretiak) and Moog is an excellent back-up who is completely OK with playing that role.


    Offense I give the edge here to the Devils. They have an awesome first line and top6 should have a better offensive skill than Mannheim`s. It will be take some effort to shut that down. Mannheim although is confident that the defensive efforts this team brings will keep the impact to a minimum. In addition, the bottom 6 scoring should go to Mannheim again.

    I am not saying much about the coaching as it is very hard to compare. As I said, I hold Chernyshev very high. He defined Soviet hockey together with Tarasov. Obviously burns is a good coach too.

    Mannheim will hardly ever be in the box since they have a very disciplined team. They will not take bad penalties and that is important since the powerplay unit of the Devils is a very good one. The Devils will not get many chances on the powerplay.
    Mannheim`s powerplay might not be the best of the draft but they have some excellent passers and talented finishers in their line-up. Also, the offense generated from the blue line is deadly on the powerplay.

    The key match-up obviously is Mannheim`s 3rd against the Devils 1st.

    I feel this series should go to Mannheim in 5 or 6.
     
  8. BM67

    BM67 Registered User

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    Based on what?

    Line 3:

    Ramsay put up decent offensive numbers, but Walker has led the NHA in assists and twice led a Stanley Cup winner in scoring.

    Luce also put up decent numbers, but MacKay led the PCHA in goals 3 times and assists once.

    Gare has led the NHL in goals, but never a top 10 in points or assists, while Nevin was top 10 in goals, assist and points.

    I might give you Gare over Nevin, but MacKay is easily the best of the lot offensively, and my line has a clear edge.

    Line 4:

    Gottselig is very underrated, and I'd be willing to give him the edge over Tonelli, but it's close and debatable.

    Ricci and Linden have played most of the same years, so they are easier to compare. Year for year, Linden has had more goals and points 10 times each. I have to give the edge to Linden.

    Korroll put up some solid numbers, but Duguay topped his best in goals 3 times, in assists 5 times, and points 5 times.

    Even if you say Gottselig is the best of the lot, I can't see where you can gain the edge here either.
     
  9. Wisent

    Wisent Registered User

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    For the 3rd line my musing is this. This line played together and had the chemistry which would give them the edge IMO. Individually it can be argued though but as a line they are more than the parts they are made of. This is why I gave the edge to them. This is of course up for debate. And MacKay definitely is better offensively than any of mine. Still you have to remember that they reached these points despite being used as checkers and penalty killers.

    I agree with Linden being a better scorer than Ricci but I disagree with Duguay over Koroll. Koroll still has decent numbers despite being mostly used as a checker and penalty killer (same thought as for the 3rd line). If he played a more offensive role on his teams I think he would have been better than Duguay. Duguay has topped Koroll top scoring 3 times but if you look behind Koroll's and Duguay`s top scoring seasons they are fairly similar.
     
  10. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

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    I'd really like to see Fedorov somehow centering Adler's second line. I think it would bump that top-6 to another level, with one of the best 1-2 centre punches in the draft. Both he and Forsberg bring great all-around game, and I think they'd be better served anchoring separate lines.

    Anatoli Firsov - Peter Forsberg - Lanny McDonald
    Jiri Holik - Sergei Fedorov - Vyacheslav Starshinov

    Between the two of them, I feel Starshinov is better suited to playing the wing.
     
  11. Wisent

    Wisent Registered User

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    This was actually the first plan I had and I was looking a long long time for a second line RW before I moved Fedorov up to Forsberg`s side. This is something i can actually do really. ut by now I think it is too late. People have already voted. Perhaps for the next round if there is one for me. And actually Starshinov can play wing, he did it rarely though.
     
  12. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

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    Yeah, probably too late. It just kinda occurred to me now as I was looking over your lineup...
     
  13. BM67

    BM67 Registered User

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    One has to remeber that during much of MacKay's and Walker's careers there was only starters and spares, so they too were going up against the other teams top lines while putting up their points.

    While chemistry has to count for something, it doesn't make the Egg Line or the French Connection better than Malone/Lemieux/Howe. Walker/MacKay/Nevin not having played together doesn't preclude them from having chemistry.

    As for Duguay playing in a more offensive role, he was hardly a first liner when he put up 27 goals, 36 assists and 63 points in his 2nd year, with all but the goals being better than Korroll put up at any time in his career. Korroll is a decent scorer for a checker, but since he did score 50 career PP goals, he can hardly claim to have been only used in a checking role. Duguay doesn't blow him out of the water, but he is at least slightly better offensively.

    Korroll GP 814 G 208 A 254 Pts 462 PPG 50 SHG 5 PO GP 85 G 19 A 29 Pts 48 PPG 7 SHG 0
    Duguay GP 864 G 274 A 346 Pts 620 PPG 64 SHG 14 PO GP 89 G 31 A 22 Pts 53 PPG 7 SHG 2
     
  14. Murphy

    Murphy Registered User

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    This is the second series to start in the New York State but with the antics going on the Garden this series hasn't recieved much press and seems to be flying under the radar without much hype.

    The puck drops in the Meadowlands and Adler strikes quick. Salming to Forsberg who dishes it off Federov opens the scoring 3 minutes in. Adler continues to carry the play and goes up by another when McDonald scores from a wrist shop off the right wing. Adler is playing a strong puck control game and it almost appears to be a game of keep away from New Jersey. Holik combines with Starshinov with a minute left in the period and Adler leaves the period with a quick 3-0 lead.

    The second period starts Rayner on the bench in favour Lorne Chabot. The switch seems to work and New Jersey seems to respond. They carry the play for the first time and it pays off with Bill Cook hammering home a rebound of a Larry Robinson point shot. Adler answers back by continuing their strong puck possesion game and takes momentum away from New Jersey. They get the next 6 shots on net and look to continue their first period dominance when Federov gets caught admiring a pass and is hammered by Larry Robinson. The hit swings momentum back to New Jersey and as if to put an exclamation point on his strong period, Larry Robinson blasts a point to point feed from Goldham and beats Holecek cleanly.

    Third period starts with New Jersey hungry and pressing for the tying goal. Its a game of momentum and New Jersey has it, continuing from the second period. The strong puck possesion game of Adler seems to have gone out the wayside as New Jersey dumps the puck and forechecks relentlessly. Davydov coughs up the puck on one such play when Bill Barber bodychecks him behind the Adler net and feeds Maltsev who's camped out in front. Game tied 3-3. New Jersey keeps pressing and keeps the foot on the gas. They've outshot Adler 14-6 in the third but Holecek is playing a strong game and lets nothing more by him as the period ends 3-3.

    Overtime starts and the play is wide open, end for end. Both teams trade chance for chance but Holecek and Chabot are closing the door. The speed is incredible and the passes are tape to tape. Hockey being played at its finest but the 1st overtime ends with the score still knotted at 3.

    The second overtime starts with the same torrid pace of the first. Luce and Ramsey have struggled in the speed game of both teams and the point is driven home when Alexander Maltsev beats Luce to a loose puck in the nuetral zone and quickly feeds Petrov for a clear break from the blueline in. Holecek stops the shot but Larry Robinson swoops in and burys the rebound for his second of the night to win the game. The comeback is complete and New Jersey wins the first game 4-3
     
  15. Murphy

    Murphy Registered User

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    In a scheduling quirk the second game of the series is a back to back affair. Since game 1 didn't end until 12:30am. This game starts a mere 21-1/2 hours after the first one ended.

    Well you wouldn't know it by the pace of the game. Its off to another torrid pace as both teams go after each other hard. Its end to end action and Rayner in particular has bounced back from his dismal 1st period. He stones Federov twice on point blank opportunities. Holecek keeps up his stellar play in the other end turning away all that is thrown at him. The first ends 0-0 and shots are even as well at 14 a piece.

    The second period starts and the teams settle into a game of cat and mouse. Both sides content to wait for a mistake. Chernyshev has been more successful getting the Luce line out against Frank Bouchers line and Craig Ramsey has stepped up his play thwarting the bread line at every turn. Bob Nevin has been assigned to keep Federov in check after his strong 1st period and you can sense Federov's frustration. Both teams are getting tired and seem content to play defensive hockey. The second period ends, still tied at 0-0. The shots again tell the story with Adler having the edge 7- 5.

    The third period starts with Pat Burns and Arkady Chernyshev getting into the cat and mouse game. Burns is successful getting his bread line away from the Luce line and they start to press. Bun Cook lays the body into Pospisil on another line mis-match to create the turn-over and feeds his brother who one times a shot past Holecek. Adler replies 21 seconds later with a goal of their own with Mike Ricci getting in on the action this time, assists to Cliff Koroll and Borje Salming. The period ends tied 1-1 and the two teams prepare for overtime once again.

    Chernyshev starts the Luce line again. Luce wins the faceoff from Boucher and the puck goes to Danny Gare who drives the puck in deep. The bread line quickly changes to get away from the matchup leaving New Jersey outmatched in their end. Craig Ramsey who has a head of steam, quickly gets on top of Bob Goldham and Goldhams clearing attempt goes straight to Lidstrom who one times a shot past a startled Chuck Rayner. Adler scores 9 seconds into overtime to earn the series split.
     
  16. vancityluongo

    vancityluongo Twin Benning Sponsor

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    Wow, Murph you're doing a awesome job. Keep it up. :clap:
     
  17. shawnmullin

    shawnmullin Registered User

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    yeah these write ups are great, makes me want to try my hand at them.
     
  18. Wisent

    Wisent Registered User

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    very nice. :handclap:
     
  19. Murphy

    Murphy Registered User

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    With the series switch to Adler, two days later both teams are complaining about the schedule. Jet lag is the biggest enemy of both teams but Fetisov is quoted as saying it's peanuts compared to what he put up with Russian national team and his New Jersey Devils are not going to let it affect them.

    The crowd is loud but is definitely different with their singing and chants of ole, ole.
    Adler comes out strong with adrenaline. After all this is the first ever Stanley Cup game contested in Adler and they have a point to prove. They swarm the Jersey end and pepper Chuck Rayner. 5 minutes into the game they open the scoring on a nice deke from Jiri Holik. They continue the pressure and with the home crowd behind them they attack in waves. They add a second goal when Forsberg brings the puck out of the corner which leaves Red Dutton twisted into the ice and dekes Rayner leaving him much the same way as Dutton. The period ends with Adler up 2-0 and in full control of the game.

    The second period starts much like the first left off with Adler having a decided edge in play. With the home town crowd behind them Adler is looking invincible and have fired 12 shots on net when Forsberg and Federov breakout 2 on 1 against Robinson. Federov hangs on to the puck too long and Robinson steps into him with a solid body check as the puck and Federov slide harmlessly out of the way. The hit seems to inspire the Devils and they finally start to mount an attack of there own. Holecek however, who's having a strong series turns everything thrown at him away and the period ends 2-0.

    The third period starts and Sergei Federov is not on the bench. Chernyshev has for the most part kept the Luce line against the Bread line and they've kept them in check. Gare is moved up to take Federov's spot and the move seems to handcuff Luce's line. The Cook brothers break free and execute a perfect 2 on 1 with Bun passing to Bill and the score is 2-1. The Bread line strike again quickly from the faceoff with all three getting into the action. Boucher to Bun who feeds a streaking Bill and just like that the score is 2-2. Bill Cook has his 2nd of the game and 4th of the series. The period stays tied and the two teams prepare for a third straight overtime.

    The Adler crowd is definitely apprehensive. With Federov out from the Robinson hit they just haven't been the same team and the crowd senses it. They hold their breath when Craig Ramsey is sent off for slashing Bun Cook. The New Jersey powerplay has been strong but held off the scoresheet thanks to the stellar penalty kill of Luce and Ramsey but this time with Ramsey in the box they pepper Holecek. Robinson sends a nice pass to Reed Larson who blasts a shot by Holecek for the overtime winner and New Jersey leaves a very quiet Adler stadium with a 2-1 series lead.
     
  20. Murphy

    Murphy Registered User

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    The NHL reschedules game 4 for a day later from the scheduled start. With the back to back game, overseas trip and 3 straight overtimes, both teams were citing exhaustion. The switch however would mean only a two day break for game 5 instead of the scheduled 3 day break. Chabot is in for Rayner and Andy Moog is in for Holecek

    Sergei Federov is back in the line up and makes his prescense felt immediately turning a 1 on 2 into a clear opportunity and scores a beauty on Lorne Chabot, 3 minutes into the game. The Adler crowd is back into it and singing louder than ever, it seems to inspire Adler and they keep coming at Jersey relentlessly. Mike Ricci gets into the action as the first period winds down with his second of the series and Adler jumps out to a 2-0 lead. Adler outshoots Jersey 16 - 8 in the period.

    The 2nd period starts and Larry Robinson is not on the bench. Its being reported that he has suffered a total body injury and will not be back for the game. Adler keeps the foot on the gas and just like the first, Macdonald scores 3 mins into the period on a laser of a wrister. Burns call a timeout and Chico Resch comes in to replace Lorne Chabot. The timeout works with New Jersey waking up and applying some pressure, Uwe Krupp is sent off for hauling down Tonelli and gets an extra two complaining about it on the way to the box. New Jersey throws everything they can at Adler, firing 9 shots on Moog during the 4 minute powerplay. Andy Moog however is up to the task and stops them all. The period closes out 3-0.

    The Adler crowd is singing and chanting, sensing this is their night. Adler takes a page out of New Jerseys playbook and smothers them. They turn back rush after rush content to dump out at every chance. At the 1/2 way point of the period Borje Salming fakes a clearing attempt and steps around the forechecking Bill Barber. He gains the zone, slides the puck through Ernie Johnson and lets a quick snap shot that beats Chico through the five hole. 2-1/2 minutes later Salming springs Macdonald free and he scores his second of the game with another laser wrist shot that beats Chico's glove. The game ends with Adler winning a decisive victory 5-0 and the series tied 2-2
     
  21. Wisent

    Wisent Registered User

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    A great read. Very good bringing the series to life.
     
  22. Murphy

    Murphy Registered User

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    The series returns to New Jersey and travelling is still the story line. A severe blizzard in Adler had the airport delayed and the teams didn't arrive from their overseas flight until early this morning. Neither team held a game day skate.

    The puck drops in the first and its clear the travel has affected both teams. The first period is fairly uneventful and resembles a 4th overtime period. To compound matters there was an Ozzy concert the night before and the ice is in bad shape. Neither team can muster much in the way of offense and the period ends with the shots 6-5 for New Jersey, none of them dangerous. Even the coaches seem tired as neither of them matched lines like they have previously

    The second period starts and both teams seem to start getting their legs. The Bread line not being checked as tight open the scoring when Frank Boucher gets a nice tip on a point shot from Larry Robinson. New Jersey starts to press some more and are rewarded when Trevor Linden finishes off a nice feed from Tonelli. Adler replies when Forsberg scores with Fetisov draped all over his back. The two teams pick up the pace and start resembling the two teams that started off the series. Boucher picks up his second point of the period feeding a pass to the point which Reed Larson converts with a cannon and gets his second goal of the series. The period ends with New Jersey up 3-1.

    The third period starts and its obvious New Jerseys plan is to smother Adler and sit on the lead. Its an effective plan with the Devils being one of the strongest defensive teams in the league. Adlers not getting so much as a sniff when Peter Forsberg picks up the puck in his own end and carrys it the lenght of the ice, making 6 dekes along the way. He finishes a beautiful goal with his 7th deke and slides the puck in behind Chuck Rayner with 1:16 left to play. Chernyshev pulls Holecek and Adler mounts an attack. There's a flurry around Rayners net but he shuits the door and New Jersey hold on to take the game and a series lead 3 games to 2.
     
  23. Murphy

    Murphy Registered User

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    With a third overseas flight in the series Adler is hoping for one more. The crowd is its usual boisterous self singing songs and chanting when the puck is dropped.

    The first period starts out very fast and very intense. Forsberg and Federov are extremely dangerous and the two connect on a 2 on 1 to open the scoring three minutes in. New Jersey applies pressure them selves and after surviving the first 5 minutes they start to take over the play. Bill Cook shakes off the tight checking of Don Luce and breaks in alone on Holecek but is denied. Maltsev feeds Barber moments later and lets a laser go that appears to have Holecek beat but he gets enough of the puck with his arm to deflect the puck away. As the period moves on, The Devils appear to get stronger. They pepper Holecek time and time again, only to have him turn away everything he faces. The period ends with Adler being outshot 21-7 but Holecek is having himself a whale of a series.

    The second period starts and the Devils continue with their strong play. Micky Mackay thinks he's scored on a wide open tap in but Holechek in a desperate move dives towards the puck and is able to deflect the puck away with the tip of his stick. Borje Salming lets a howitzer go from the point that gets behind Holecek but bounces away off the post. New Jersey has all the momentum but it stops suddenly with a Lanny Macdonald goal. The period ends with Adler up 2-0 but being outshout 35-16.

    The crowd is going insane. They have the same sense as in game 4 and the songs keep coming. New Jersey however has other ideas and keep up their strong play. John Tonelli breaks down the wing and cuts around Krupp for a clear chance on net. Krupp reaches around and trips up Tonelli and both of them go crashing into the net. The crowd stops singing and a hush falls over them when Jiri Holecek doesn't get back up. Its not looking good for him or Adler as he's lead off towards the dressing room. Moog isn't dressed for the game as he stayed behind in North America for the birth of his baby daughter. Karl Friesen looks very nervous and pale as he enetrs his spot between the pipes. New Jersey sensing this is their opportunity come at Adler Hard. Bill Cook is able to get around an exhausted Lidstrom and puts away Jerseys first goal of the game with a well placed shot above Freisens glove. Adler are now in full retreat mode doing all they can to protect their one goal lead. They're successful in doing so until 2:32 remaining when Larry Robinson is able to unleash a howitzer from the point and the puck finds its way behind Karl Friesen. The game ends tied and the two teams head off to prepare for overtime.

    The crowd goes insane when Jiri Holecek leads his team back out onto the ice to start the overtime. The pumped crowd gives adler a boost and they fire the next 6 shots on Rayner. Danny Gare breaks free and lets a slapshot go that rings off the post. At the 10:12 mark of the overtime period however the Cook brothers combine on a give and go and Bun Cook scores the overtime winner.

    The New Jersey Devils have defeated Adler Mannheim and take the series in six games.

    First star honours for the series go to Larry Robinson who has 2 goals and 4 assists and was a rock on the blueline averaging 34.56 average ice time per game.

    Second star honours go to Bill Cook who finishes the series with 5 goals and 4 assists.

    Third star honours go to Jiri Holeck, its later revealed that Holecek suffered a dislocated elbow and a broken thumb before he came out to play in overtime.
     
  24. God Bless Canada

    God Bless Canada Registered User

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    Congrats on the win, BM. Now for the constrast in styles series against Philly. We'll see how Rayner holds up against a team that can roll four offensive lines.

    Wiser, I think you would have been better served against a team like NYR or Philly, where your glut of two-way forwards would have really come in handy.
     
  25. Wisent

    Wisent Registered User

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    I can´t say that I saw that one coming. Firsov being a complete non factor, arguably one of the top5 Soviet players ever. Same for Starshinov and Holik.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2007

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