Speculation: All Things Pete DeBoer - Part II

[captainscott]

I actually thought we had good depth at the start of the year, at the NHL level at least.

Problem is, our roster is so fragile that the injuries have shot past the depth.

Also hasn't helped that Boucher and Matteau have started so slowly. Those would be the obvious AHL call ups.

i think we all knew on paper the team didn't look horrible but all the variables went the wrong way...

elias
havlat
ryder
clowe
brunner etc
zubrus

all had poor years and or hit the wall in their respective careers. throw some cammaleri injuries, zajac underperforming, jagr being another year older and wallahh here we are ..... we didn't have quality depth and without quality depth you need lots of things to fall into place to have success..

 

[captainscott]

people pick on him because he is a terrible player.

my point is our 6th or 7th defensman is not the cause of our record.... and he isn't a terrible hockey player, he is just being overused by the coach.

most of you thought andy greene was terrible too

 

[HellOnIce]

Well Boucher was called up multiple times and the last time he got called up, he didn't look so good.

I'm still waiting for Matteau to get his first *EVER* call-up so let's not lump him in with boosh as if he hadn't done jack with his "shot" with the big team.

Boucher yeah hasn't looked great, but he's generating more recently down in the A. I will say though last time he was here, it was like his 4th game in less than 5 days. Also there was even a point (I think) where Sislo played like 5 games in 5 days between callups or something like that earlier in the year.

I'd like to see Matteau given a shot simply because it's someone else and perhaps it'll give him some confidence. I don't watch the A closely enough.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

he is a terrible hockey player and he is also being overused, you are right

this is the Deboer thread last I checked though...and that is his fault.

and you are right, no one is blaming our record on Peter Harrold. Doesn't mean he isn't part of the problem.

 

[HellOnIce]

he is a terrible hockey player and he is also being overused, you are right

this is the Deboer thread last I checked though...and that is his fault.

and you are right, no one is blaming our record on Peter Harrold. Doesn't mean he isn't part of the problem.

Harrold isn't in right now if Severson is healthy.

 

[captainscott]

Boucher yeah hasn't looked great, but he's generating more recently down in the A. I will say though last time he was here, it was like his 4th game in less than 5 days. Also there was even a point (I think) where Sislo played like 5 games in 5 days between callups or something like that earlier in the year.

I'd like to see Matteau given a shot simply because it's someone else and perhaps it'll give him some confidence. I don't watch the A closely enough.

im not judging boucher on his brief stint here he played like two games and got no ice time.... but he has offensive instincts, which is more than i can say for the repeat call ups of sestito and sislo calling these two up is assanine... whats the difference if we lose 2-1 or 4-1 we need some damn offense at least call up the one guy in the system that has had a history of scoring and see what he can bring for a 10 game stretch

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Harrold isn't in right now if Severson is healthy.

Harrold is playing 18+ minutes a night while Gelinas and Larsson play that much combined

you're kidding yourself if you think Pete would bench HArrold over either of those guys.

 

[Gentleman of Verona]

i think you should all stop dwelling on the minutes zidlicky and harrold get.... they are not in the long term plans here. debeor is just doing whatever he thinks gives this team the best chance to win on any given night.

peter harrold is just someone you all like to pick on , he does his job, zidlicky is still an offensive minded defensman and this team is starved offensively so the coach plays him a ton. i don't imagine zidlicky is on this team next year so who cares at this point. larsson is coming off illness i didn't expect him to get 25 minutes considering they were dressing 7 d

I care about what happens this season, regarding the roster management and player development. I'm not one of these "lol season done let pdb stay conner mcdevil lol" guys. It's more complicated than that. What happens with young players now affects them going forward, and that's directly tied in to how the vets that they play with are utilized on a game by game basis.

 

[captainscott]

he is a terrible hockey player and he is also being overused, you are right

this is the Deboer thread last I checked though...and that is his fault.

and you are right, no one is blaming our record on Peter Harrold. Doesn't mean he isn't part of the problem.

i honestly think harrold would be more useful on this team as a forward he has more offensive upside than sestito... maybe he could be passable winger on the 3rd or 4th line for this roster... can't get much more inept than it is right now

 

[HellOnIce]

Harrold is playing 18+ minutes a night while Gelinas and Larsson play that much combined

you're kidding yourself if you think Pete would bench HArrold over either of those guys.

It's all a mess. Gelinas gets chances like last night and the first shift he is a hot mess and takes a terrible penalty. He's making bad decisions left and right. With Harold - I think they want his mobility playing more than Larsson at the moment. I'm not too bothered about it. 7D isn't optimal.

 

[Gentleman of Verona]

i honestly think harrold would be more useful on this team as a forward he has more offensive upside than sestito... maybe he could be passable winger on the 3rd or 4th line for this roster... can't get much more inept than it is right now

Well, I did suggest yesterday that based on Pete's "dartboard" line combination philosophy in the Caps game that he should try Harrold at 1C with Gelinas and Tootoo at the wings. I would definitely pay good money to watch that!

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

It's all a mess. Gelinas gets chances like last night and the first shift he is a hot mess and takes a terrible penalty. He's making bad decisions left and right. With Harold - I think they want his mobility playing more than Larsson at the moment. I'm not too bothered about it. 7D isn't optimal.

the point is yes, Gelinas had a bad game...but he should STILL be playing through it. you aren't going to learn by being benched as soon as you make a mistake IMO

this season is a lost cause. you might as well let these guys try to play through their mistakes. and part of the reason is that Pete isn't the right coach for that.

 

[captainscott]

I care about what happens this reason, regarding the roster management and player development. I'm not one of these "lol season done let pdb stay conner mcdevil lol" guys. It's more complicated than that. What happens with young players now affects them going forward, and that's directly tied in to how the vets that they play with are utilized on a game by game basis.

roster management is being thrown around too much. the past month has been playing who ever is breathing its not like we are healthy scratching guys nightly for the most part

i understand your point and you are right but the coaches job right now is to try and get wins and get this team to the playoffs.... there will come a time this season where that is impossible, i mean we all know we are there now but the team can't throw in the towel just yet. i will be a lot more ticked off if come february or march any young defensman are scratched that would be the time to be pissed now the coach is leaning on veterans because that's his style...agree or disagree that's what he thinks gets the job done

 

[captainscott]

the point is yes, Gelinas had a bad game...but he should STILL be playing through it. you aren't going to learn by being benched as soon as you make a mistake IMO

this season is a lost cause. you might as well let these guys try to play through their mistakes. and part of the reason is that Pete isn't the right coach for that.

i agree these guys are playing like robots and that is part of the problem... i think you are just early in saying the coach is just going to go all young..... we all know they are out,, but the coach is still being paid to win hockey games so in his mind he is going to fight for every win..

and i agree i don't want debeor handling this team in its rebuild

 

[captainscott]

Well, I did suggest yesterday that based on Pete's "dartboard" line combination philosophy in the Caps game that he should try Harrold at 1C with Gelinas and Tootoo at the wings. I would definitely pay good money to watch that!

would be better than the sestito sislo line

 

[JK3]

The thing with Pete is yes he's desperate for wins but his desperation formula isn't working, at all. Run Cory into ground, shorten the bench, run Jagr into the ground, burn out your older players, give tons of minutes to guys that are injury prone or returning from injury (risky and dumb), play Zids and Harrold half the game while Larsson and Gelly rot on the bench. Merrill and even Green have been run into the ground too and it shows at the most critical times of the game.

You wonder why this team fails to keep leads, they've had plenty of chances to win games but it's near impossible when we go into Pete desperation mode. He overuses the same guys over and over and over to the point where they are totally gassed and ineffective at the end of the game. It's no wonder they can't string any passes together or make competent plays, they're so freaking tired the whole system just falls apart. It's like we are playing every game shorthanded in the third period.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

The thing with Pete is yes he's desperate for wins but his desperation formula isn't working, at all. Run Cory into ground, shorten the bench, run Jagr into the ground, burn out your older players, give tons of minutes to guys that are injury prone or returning from injury (risky and dumb), play Zids and Harrold half the game while Larsson and Gelly rot on the bench. Merrill and even Green have been run into the ground too and it shows at the most critical times of the game.

You wonder why this team fails to keep leads, they've had plenty of chances to win games but it's near impossible when we go into Pete desperation mode. He overuses the same guys over and over and over to the point where they are totally gassed and ineffective at the end of the game. It's no wonder they can't string any passes together or make competent plays, they're so freaking tired the whole system just falls apart. It's like we are playing every game shorthanded in the third period.

Agreed. Desperate people like Pete aren't always logical. Metaphorically, it's like they are in such a hurry to succeed or get out of a bad situation that they end up tripping over their own feet in addition to everyone else's.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The thing with Pete is yes he's desperate for wins but his desperation formula isn't working, at all. Run Cory into ground, shorten the bench, run Jagr into the ground, burn out your older players, give tons of minutes to guys that are injury prone or returning from injury (risky and dumb), play Zids and Harrold half the game while Larsson and Gelly rot on the bench. Merrill and even Green have been run into the ground too and it shows at the most critical times of the game.

You wonder why this team fails to keep leads, they've had plenty of chances to win games but it's near impossible when we go into Pete desperation mode. He overuses the same guys over and over and over to the point where they are totally gassed and ineffective at the end of the game. It's no wonder they can't string any passes together or make competent plays, they're so freaking tired the whole system just falls apart. It's like we are playing every game shorthanded in the third period.

Jagr also stated they don't practice enough (but he blamed that on the schedule), which is understandable.

This team desperately needs some long team practices to work on things.

 

[NJDevs26]

the point is yes, Gelinas had a bad game...but he should STILL be playing through it. you aren't going to learn by being benched as soon as you make a mistake IMO

this season is a lost cause. you might as well let these guys try to play through their mistakes. and part of the reason is that Pete isn't the right coach for that.

In regards to Gelinas though how long does he get to stink? It's not like he's really shown ANY improvement defensively, heck he's gone backwards since his first 10-15 games. And it's worse when he takes penalties and turns the puck over. How long do players get to stink just because they're 'young'? (and Gelinas has a bunch of AHL experience and has played over a season in the NHL, at a certain point he is what he is)

 

[MadDevil]

I just don't see Gelinas ever progressing past a PP specialist. So I don't really have that much of a problem with him being sheltered the way he has been. It's not like he's being benched/scatched for no reason.

 

[Emperoreddy]

In regards to Gelinas though how long does he get to stink? It's not like he's really shown ANY improvement defensively, heck he's gone backwards since his first 10-15 games. And it's worse when he takes penalties and turns the puck over. How long do players get to stink just because they're 'young'? (and Gelinas has a bunch of AHL experience and has played over a season in the NHL, at a certain point he is what he is)

Defense takes longer to develop. He isn't really allowed to attempt to fix his mistakes in game.

Why Pete needs to go now. We need to let these kids play a bit more and see what we actually have.

 

[NJDevs26]

Defense takes longer to develop. He isn't really allowed to attempt to fix his mistakes in game.

Why Pete needs to go now. We need to let these kids play a bit more and see what we actually have.

Pete's actually given Gelinas a far longer leash than Larsson for the most part. Granted the offense helps (well it did last season, Gelinas hasn't had the same impact this season) but Larsson's a lot more solid defensively and never seems to get the icetime Gelinas does.

And as far as last night goes, it's easy to make a d-man dissapear when you dress seven. On the whole he certainly has a selective doghouse.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I'm not sure the argument for Pete being bad with kids has a lot of validity. I think Pete is bad with decision making, making adjustments, and personnel management in general; naturally some of that is going to effect younger players but you can see it in other aspects of his coaching as well. He loves sticking with something/someone repeatedly despite a lack of success, and is painfully late to the party when it comes to finally realizing that something/someone is not working. Bottom line is the results suck, not sure nitpicking at each and every thing is necessary.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

I'm not sure the argument for Pete being bad with kids has a lot of validity. I think Pete is bad with decision making, making adjustments, and personnel management in general; naturally some of that is going to effect younger players but you can see it in other aspects of his coaching as well. He loves sticking with something/someone repeatedly despite a lack of success, and is painfully late to the party when it comes to finally realizing that something/someone is not working. Bottom line is the results suck, not sure nitpicking at each and every thing is necessary.

I think Pete struggles with managing players of certain temperaments (those who might need a softer touch to succeed, for instance), and that combined with the poor decision making, difficulty making adjustments, and confusion about personnel management when the people he wants to stick with are just not working which you outlined can make things hard for some young players as well as for this team in general. Basically, he's just not the best decision maker, and that spills over into a lot of categories.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Is there even a debate anymore? Season is over. He isn't getting the most out of the team (even if the most is NHL .500) and he we need a new direction.

He needs to go.