Royisgone
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- Mar 7, 2012
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Sure, he was a total rat, but God how I miss Matt Barnaby! Hockey was a hell of a lot more fun back then.
All things Pegula 1
- Thread starter Buffaloed
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Sure, he was a total rat, but God how I miss Matt Barnaby! Hockey was a hell of a lot more fun back then.
Buffaloed
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Look for Lance Lysowski to have an exclusive interview with Jason Botterill. Those two were pretty tight. He followed Botterill from Pittsburgh.
Buffaloed
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Jim Bob
RIP RJ
I wonder how long Botts is under an NDA.
If it is as long as he's pulling paychecks from the Sabres, the one to watch over the next few months is Murray. It is possible that his NDA expires on 7/1 when is contract has run it's course.
Buffaloed
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Has there been a schism in the Pegula family? We went from Kim supporting Botterill with Terry out of the picture for months. Now we have Terry back in the picture appearing to be behind Botterill's ouster. If that's the case, might Terry also be pressing Kim to step down?
sufferer
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- Dec 6, 2017
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jputt99
Registered User
I wonder how long Botts is under an NDA.
Good luck. It's permanent. Probably includes a clause he has to pay back money, if he talks. You'll know their NDAs are tough if MURRAY NEVER TALKS -- that guy would say anything. Let's see if he talks after June 30. Bets are no.
I have no desire to hear from Botts, none.I wonder how long Botts is under an NDA.
If it is as long as he's pulling paychecks from the Sabres, the one to watch over the next few months is Murray. It is possible that his NDA expires on 7/1 when is contract has run it's course.
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
Given how Ted Black has talked about some things, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a time limit on NDAs.
And Burke has gone on the record about stuff like the Risto idea getting squashed when he was with Calgary, so other teams don't make executives sign NDAs that have no end date.
We are only a week away from Murray's contract with the Sabres expiring.
Given the actions of last week and the dearth of news in general, if Murray can talk next week, I am sure someone will call him up.
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
I think a lot of people would love to know how the ROR deal happened, especially around the timing with the signing bonus.
SackTastic
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- Mar 25, 2011
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NDAs would expire along with the contract unless an explicit survival clause was added. Even past that, indefinite NDAs tend to only be applied to trade secrets. If that applies to past negotiations is a grey area, since that info could have economic value in future negotiations, but that's an unlikely argument to be won. ( If the Pegulas claimed that for example, all you would have to prove is that they leaked similar information to a reporter once and the argument is shot. )
NDAs that are too broad are almost universally rejected by courts.; "You can't say anything about us we might not like" for example. So I'm sure at some point JB COULD talk freely, the question is WOULD he. It's one thing to be allowed to talk, but that could hurt future employment prospects.
NDAs that are too broad are almost universally rejected by courts.; "You can't say anything about us we might not like" for example. So I'm sure at some point JB COULD talk freely, the question is WOULD he. It's one thing to be allowed to talk, but that could hurt future employment prospects.
Buffaloed
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I doubt if an NDA even matters. If you want to work in the NHL you don't air dirty laundry in public.I wonder how long Botts is under an NDA.
If it is as long as he's pulling paychecks from the Sabres, the one to watch over the next few months is Murray. It is possible that his NDA expires on 7/1 when is contract has run it's course.
EichHart
Registered User
Is what we saw happen earlier this month proof that this article is correct?
What happened was pretty much unprecedented in the sports industry. I believe they are hurting for cash. What's everyone's thoughts?
Fracking industry projected to have $300B in losses
Shale industry will be rocked by $300 billion in losses and a wave of bankruptcies, Deloitte says
What happened was pretty much unprecedented in the sports industry. I believe they are hurting for cash. What's everyone's thoughts?
Fracking industry projected to have $300B in losses
Shale industry will be rocked by $300 billion in losses and a wave of bankruptcies, Deloitte says
- Aug 19, 2005
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The Pegulas cashed out their nat gas holdings at the market top. They plowed that money into Buffalo sports and real estate. But I wonder if they were buying back nat gas properties/assets all the way down and now find themselves in a pinch. When you buy an asset that's down 60-80% from its highs, but that asset still manages to go broke, you lose 100% of your investment.
While I'm sure he lost SOME money....Terrence Pegula. The Pegula's are fine.
My guess is the team has went from passion project (money is no object) to investment.
He's probably lost 100M+ since buying the team on the Sabres. At some point, he decided it was time to tighten the ship. Is it related to the economic issues? Sure. But I think mostly it's just a billionaire got bored. In the end, TP is a fan, so when his engagement is back, he'll probably want to spend again.
SackTastic
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They did re-invest a significant amount of cash from the original East Resources sale into JKLM Energy, lease options and developing a bunch of wells in NW PA. They were actually smart and stopped producing from those wells early on in NG's freefall , about a year ago now.
That investment will be fine, they aren't going to lose out on it. Oil and gas extraction are long term plays, 20-30 years, not 2-3. It's not generating cash right now, but they likely also have no/small volume of debt to carry.
They are not broke, but their entire business portfolio is dependent on irregular cash flows, which are even more irregular today.
Broke is a relative term. Everything they own is not spitting out cash from sports/entertainment to real estate/hospitality to natural gas. When cash flow gets bad enough, you have to sell assets at impaired price. That's what people are waiting for now. The issues with any business are liquidity.
EichHart
Registered User
Yes, he is a billionaire. But most of his assets are tied up in Bills (Worth 2+ Billion) Sabres (500 million). He also holds lots of debt, I think he is struggling on the liquid portion of things. That is why he laid off 30+ people. It saves him millions over the course of the next year or so while COVID gets figured out.
EichHart
Registered User
Oil and gas will be a thing of the pass in 20-30 years. (Hopefully) That is unless the rich corrupt leaders of that industry have their way through manipulating politicians.
Jim Bob
RIP RJ
I thought he did an interview recently and talked up the things the Sabres did when he was with the team.
Kind of like how Larry Quinn has talked about some of the firings and stuff.
Or maybe I'm just having a senior moment...
I didn't know you were the Pegula's accountant.
They Pegula's are fine.
They just are trying to run a sports franchise like a business instead of a passion project. Football that isn't an issue as its instantly profitable. Hockey side will NEVER be profitable unless the team is taking deep runs into the playoffs yearly.
He spent what, 1.4B on the bills and 200M on the Sabres. The bills are, at a minimum, revenue neutral.
He's probably lost an additional 100M on the Sabres since purchasing and spent probably another 100M buying up other properties in the PSE portfolio.
So, if you assume 2B is tied up...that leaves him with 3B in other investments.
And I'm sure he did take a bath on fracking. But he didn't take a 3B bath.
Money wise, I'm sure they are fine. Are assets tied up? Sure.
Are the Pegula's struggling for money? Absolutely not.
The cuts, simply stated, are them being greedy assholes. Let's do some math here.
The Pegula's laid off 22 people. Let's just assume, on average (and I think i'm being generous here), the employees fired make on average 200k a year and cost the team 250k after benefits.
250k x 22 = 5.5M a year. Now, before this is all said and done, (let's say 4 months from now when the 2021 season ramps up), PSE will have to rehire, let's say 80% of those positions (the coaching staff in rochester, etc).
long term, they save 1.1M a year. However, the firings were about the 4 months those they fired were 100% idle. There was no AHL coaching, no professional scouting, no amateur scouting, just sitting around running meetings. 4 months without those positions saves PSE 1.8-ish M.
MOST NHL owners are simply eating the loss there. And they see scouting as the infrastructure of the team. The Pegula's are now seeing it and themselves personally spending 1.8M for people to sit around. Which is the disturbing part.
The Sabres are no longer a fun thing for the Pegula's. They are a non profitable business....so, it's going to be treated as such.
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