OT: All Things Coronavirus Covid-19 - Part VII - MOD ADVISORY POST 1

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Fenway

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This is a trying time for all of us no matter where you live.

Right now politics should be set aside. We all have government leaders at the Federal and State/Provincial levels telling us what we must do to get through this.

Adhere to the rules below regarding discussion that is political in nature or you will be warned and permanently removed from this series of threads.

Considering we are relaxing forum rules regarding political discussion, what steps "over the line" is completely at the discretion of the moderation team. Examples of what constitutes appropriate discourse are listed below. When in doubt, don't post it.

Do not wish harm or infection on members of the public, including the press, be it an individual or network/outlet/newspaper, etc.


It is becoming apparent that threadbans/infractions aren't enough for some people. The next step is a forum ban until hockey season starts.
***
We are going to follow similar rules for this thread that exist in the COVID-19 forum.

You may critique the response of government but don't make it political.

Posts attributing motives because it involves this or that political party/politician/ideology will not be tolerated.


Examples:

Allowed: "Trump doesn't know what he's doing, the response was too little too late"

Not Allowed: "The only reason the response was so slow was to keep the stock prices high so he can get reelected"

Allowed: "The media is over-reporting this and it's going to make things worse"

Not Allowed: "The liberal media is over-reporting this because they're trying to bring down Trump"


Miracle cures, home remedies, and medical advice should not be posted.

Please add a link to any news story

Continued from


OT: - All Things Coronavirus Covid-19 - Part VI - MOD ADVISORY POST 1

Coronavirus Dashboard

Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

STAT Coronavirus Coverage — STAT

89623758_10220250846634048_664307170107457536_n-jpg.338111
 
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Spooner st

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Can you explain to me how 1 single massive order works with multiple ship to locations. That requires many orders and tracking numbers. Say requirements change for a few locations. Are you going to put them on hold for the next massive order?
It's one order going to a stockpile. Then it's sent to those in immediate need, as an emergency, but now it's emergency everywhere since there was no planning.

Trump also said they are not a shipping company, he also said that someday the coronavirus would dissapear like magic. Beautiful magic, extraordinary magic...
 

KrejciMVP

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It's one order going to a stockpile. Then it's sent to those in immediate need, as an emergency, but now it's emergency everywhere since there was no planning.

Trump also said they are not a shipping company, he also said that someday the coronavirus would dissapear like magic. Beautiful magic, extraordinary magic...

from my experience selling to any kind of government they usually put things up to bid on tender websites.

In this case, yes the Feds have stock and they'll fulfill orders as they come in but they aren't the only supplier, the Governors have the freedom to acquire from other sources. Kraft this week made himself a supplier of masks
 

Gee Wally

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It's one order going to a stockpile. Then it's sent to those in immediate need, as an emergency, but now it's emergency everywhere since there was no planning.

Trump also said they are not a shipping company, he also said that someday the coronavirus would dissapear like magic. Beautiful magic, extraordinary magic...


Let it go.
Business, economics, leverage, unusual times, bulk, none it will penetrate.
Just let it go.
 

Eddie Munson

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Think of the Feds as another supplier. Once you drain their stock you still have to find stock elsewhere as demand increases. Canada relies on 3M it seems. Wouldn't u like them to have 3 or 4 more reliable suppliers? My point is I want my Governor to have the ability to wheel and deal in any situation

The governors do have the ability to wheel and deal. The problem though, is two fold.

A.- Like all low supply, high demand situations, the all-mighty buck reigns supreme. Thus you have multiple states trying to outbid each other on essential supplies. That's a poor way to handle an outbreak and from the looks of what FEMA has doled out in supplies, it appears once again the red states with low state taxes will again be the welfare queens of the federal government.

B.- FEMA is ALSO BIDDING against you. Now you have governors trying to not only outbid each other, but now have to outbid the very people telling them "you need to solidify your own supply chain." It's like someone bidding on their own piece at an auction and then telling you to be lucky you got it so cheap.

Keep in mind, all this is happening when the federal government has the ability to tell companies what to make and where it goes. This is what happens in a NATIONAL emergency when you believe states should govern themselves and have almost no discernible agenda or policy for people to follow.

It's like the CEO letting each department head write their own policy when they have the ability to make one broad one for the entire company. It's just lazy IMO or a complete perversion of someones idea of a states rights utopia.
 

Bocephus86

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from my experience selling to any kind of government they usually put things up to bid on tender websites.

In this case, yes the Feds have stock and they'll fulfill orders as they come in but they aren't the only supplier, the Governors have the freedom to acquire from other sources.
I had a big old example using widgets written out but I don't think it's worth it, and the point boiled down to this:

When negotiating for the acquisition of a scarce resource, a single large bidder is far more efficient (in terms of cost, timeline, and contract) than 50 separate, smaller bidders. When adding in the fact that it is literally the job of the large bidder to handle this, I'm not sure what the other argument even really is.
 

Spooner st

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Here’s the big picture: In times of crisis, when lives are at stake, lawyers and policymakers are supposed to find solutions to problems — to get to yes with honor and within the law — and not to create obstacles.

State and local authorities are imploring the federal government to use the authority it has to secure our medical supply chain. So far, the administration appears to have responded like a parent doling out candy to a child: one piece at a time. This is an “all hands on deck” moment, not merely to flatten the curve but to leap ahead of the curve. America was once the arsenal of democracy; the D.P.A. can help make us the arsenal of public health.

Opinion | It’s High Time We Fought This Virus the American Way
 
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Spooner st

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The governors do have the ability to wheel and deal. The problem though, is two fold.

A.- Like all low supply, high demand situations, the all-mighty buck reigns supreme. Thus you have multiple states trying to outbid each other on essential supplies. That's a poor way to handle an outbreak and from the looks of what FEMA has doled out in supplies, it appears once again the red states with low state taxes will again be the welfare queens of the federal government.

B.- FEMA is ALSO BIDDING against you. Now you have governors trying to not only outbid each other, but now have to outbid the very people telling them "you need to solidify your own supply chain." It's like someone bidding on their own piece at an auction and then telling you to be lucky you got it so cheap.

Keep in mind, all this is happening when the federal government has the ability to tell companies what to make and where it goes. This is what happens in a NATIONAL emergency when you believe states should govern themselves and have almost no discernible agenda or policy for people to follow.

It's like the CEO letting each department head write their own policy when they have the ability to make one broad one for the entire company. It's just lazy IMO or a complete perversion of someones idea of a states rights utopia.
I only wish I could be this eloquent. I do...but in french. Well done.
 
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Eddie Munson

This year is my year. I can feel it. ‘86 baby!
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Need to vent about this as a health care worker.

One of our elderly patients was sent out of our facility and admitted to an ER for signs and symptoms similar to Influenza/COVID 19. They were tested last Friday for both flu and COVID. Now, the DPH and the CDC have assured us that the time it takes to get results back should be no longer than 24-48 hours. My patient sat in a hospital for 7 days awaiting their results. I don't care what the state or feds are saying from atop their watchtowers. On the ground the reality is very bleak and nothing like the rosy picture they tend to paint.

How can we stop the spread of this virus when the testing process is complete FUBAR? We don't test asymptomatic people even though studies now find that they seem to be the driving force of the spread of the disease. We also let elderly patients sit in the petri dish that is ERs for 7 days awaiting test results. If they didn't have it Friday when tested, who's to say they didn't get it Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, or the Thursday before the test came back? We don't test our healthcare professionals unless they are symptomatic but let them walk in and out of critical care units every day with limited PPE for not only them but all the other people they come in contact with. Don't even get me started about how these nurses, CNAs, and doctors get sent home to their families after being exposed day after day. So they risk not only their own health, but the health of their loved ones.

The testing process as a whole is a joke and to quote my new favorite doctor, Anthony Fauci, "a failing!"
 

KrejciMVP

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Jun 30, 2011
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The governors do have the ability to wheel and deal. The problem though, is two fold.

A.- Like all low supply, high demand situations, the all-mighty buck reigns supreme. Thus you have multiple states trying to outbid each other on essential supplies. That's a poor way to handle an outbreak and from the looks of what FEMA has doled out in supplies, it appears once again the red states with low state taxes will again be the welfare queens of the federal government.

B.- FEMA is ALSO BIDDING against you. Now you have governors trying to not only outbid each other, but now have to outbid the very people telling them "you need to solidify your own supply chain." It's like someone bidding on their own piece at an auction and then telling you to be lucky you got it so cheap.

Keep in mind, all this is happening when the federal government has the ability to tell companies what to make and where it goes. This is what happens in a NATIONAL emergency when you believe states should govern themselves and have almost no discernible agenda or policy for people to follow.

It's like the CEO letting each department head write their own policy when they have the ability to make one broad one for the entire company. It's just lazy IMO or a complete perversion of someones idea of a states rights utopia.

how does the bid process work for the Ventilators, are Governors requesting them from the feds or do they have to compete in a price war for the Feds stockpile? In this situation I assumed they Feds stockpile is shipped based on need
 
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KrejciMVP

Registered User
Jun 30, 2011
28,421
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Tampa, Florida
I had a big old example using widgets written out but I don't think it's worth it, and the point boiled down to this:

When negotiating for the acquisition of a scarce resource, a single large bidder is far more efficient (in terms of cost, timeline, and contract) than 50 separate, smaller bidders. When adding in the fact that it is literally the job of the large bidder to handle this, I'm not sure what the other argument even really is.

assuming we are talking about Ventilators, how can you place a single massive order when the curve of infection and needs changes daily. Single massive order means single.
 

Gee Wally

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assuming we are talking about Ventilators, how can you place a single massive order when the curve of infection and needs changes daily. Single massive order means single.

just stop.
Stop.

there is no ‘ventilators are us’ out there.
You place a singular large order and deploy to where needed most while retaining balance in federal reserves.

Just stop. Please.
 

Spooner st

Registered User
Jan 14, 2007
12,944
8,100
Need to vent about this as a health care worker.

One of our elderly patients was sent out of our facility and admitted to an ER for signs and symptoms similar to Influenza/COVID 19. They were tested last Friday for both flu and COVID. Now, the DPH and the CDC have assured us that the time it takes to get results back should be no longer than 24-48 hours. My patient sat in a hospital for 7 days awaiting their results. I don't care what the state or feds are saying from atop their watchtowers. On the ground the reality is very bleak and nothing like the rosy picture they tend to paint.

How can we stop the spread of this virus when the testing process is complete FUBAR? We don't test asymptomatic people even though studies now find that they seem to be the driving force of the spread of the disease. We also let elderly patients sit in the petri dish that is ERs for 7 days awaiting test results. If they didn't have it Friday when tested, who's to say they didn't get it Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, or the Thursday before the test came back? We don't test our healthcare professionals unless they are symptomatic but let them walk in and out of critical care units every day with limited PPE for not only them but all the other people they come in contact with. Don't even get me started about how these nurses, CNAs, and doctors get sent home to their families after being exposed day after day. So they risk not only their own health, but the health of their loved ones.

The testing process as a whole is a joke and to quote my new favorite doctor, Anthony Fauci, "a failing!"
It really is the worst times for health care providers, it's unacceptable governments fail to protect their best and only assets to fight this war. What a **** show. Our hearts are with all of you people that risk your lives everyday to protect the rest of us. We should make sure this will never happen again. Thank you from all of us.
 

Eddie Munson

This year is my year. I can feel it. ‘86 baby!
Jul 11, 2008
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how does the bid process work for the Ventilators, are Governors requesting they from the feds or do they have to compete in a price war for the Feds stockpile? In this situation I assumed they Feds stockpile is shipped based on need

There's no bidding war from the stockpile. There's a request and fullfillment war that is completely decided by FEMA and the administrations COVID-19 task force.

States bid to private companies to purchase medical supplies, namely respirators, gowns, face shields, and ventilators. If the states are unable to procure these essential items, they can request stock from the national stockpile. Again the problem is that FEMA is buying from the same supply chains as the states and many times outbidding them for their needed supplies.

The problem is the administration is playing both sides of this issue. You either A.- need to invoke DPA and help dictate what supplies are made and where supplies go. Or B.- Let FEMA use their purchasing power to buy up all the supplies they can and allocate them based on need. But you cannot tell states their basically on their own while actively outbidding them and thinning the market. Every decisions they make is like one foot in one foot out and ultimately very confusing.
 

KrejciMVP

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Jun 30, 2011
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“Several of the shipments we have received from the strategic national stockpile contained (personal protective equipment) well past expiration dates and, while we are being told much of the expired equipment is capable of being used for COVID-19 response, they would not be suitable for use in surgical settings,” Charles Boyle, a spokesman for Oregon Gov. Kate Brown, said in an email.

Coronavirus: Some states get masks with dry rot, faulty parts from U.S. government
 

Fenway

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I have been thinking the same thing for over a week.

Until there is a vaccine no local official is going to allow fans to pack an arena again especially in hard-hit cities. AND if they did how many would still stay home? :dunno:

Without a coronavirus vaccine, America can’t even think about bringing sports back - Mike Lupica

There is this brave notion from the National Football league that the season will start on schedule in September. Somebody tell me how. Tell me how any big sport resumes any sort of normalcy before there is a vaccine for the coronavirus. Tell me the next time you see yourself, or your son or daughter, or sister or brother or friend, sitting in a crowded stadium and pretending that the world, and not just the world of sports, is what it used to be.

This is not meant as some doomsday scenario for sports. But in the new reality for all of us, here is another: Sports may never be the same the way going to a rock concert may never be the same, or the theater, or to the movies.
Sports needs a respirator.

There will be a vaccine for the coronavirus someday, and perhaps sooner rather than later. The best and brightest minds in medicine and science are trying to come up with one right now, and will come up with one, because they always do. But until they do, ask yourself again:

When do you see yourself feeling safe to be crowded into seats at any stadium in this country, or any arena, feeling as if you’re on the F train at rush hour?
 
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