OT - NO POLITICS All Things Coronavirus Covid-19 - Part IV - MOD ADVISORY POST 1

[CharasLazyWrister]

Am I allowed to be encouraged that MA has “only” 11 deaths?

I’d say yes. But that doesn’t mean much now.

 

[Bruinaura]

 

[Salem13]

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

come on you really think it was a select few doctors?

i have had over a dozen pcp's in my life and every time my back hurt they were basically stuffing the pills into my mouth themselves. It was a large part of the medical community saying its a select few is really downplaying it in my opinion.

if you want to say there are a select few that don't care about the money i would agree with you but flip that and we will never agree.

It's ALWAYS about the money and there will be tons of many made off of this pandemic...book it.

I don’t understand though. How are prestigious members of the medical community (far from pill pushing doctors) saying we should stay home to prevent people from getting sick going to benefit the pharmaceutical industry/shady doctors?

 

[Glove Malfunction]

For sure, but you can also see why the President of the United States shouldn't be shooting from the hip with hypotheticals in public forums.

You're a very smart, reasonable person who understands that's just a best case wish and digs in further to what you read and hear...unfortunately there are people out there who aren't and don't do that...and it just makes the job of those trying to get the proper information out there to contain this thing that much harder. Similar to when he mentioned the Flu and now the administration is still trying to battle that with the facts that this isn't just the flu.

Also just from an expectation standpoint, it reminds me of Jim Stockdale's story about optimists in POW camps.

I definitely see that side of it. I'm big on digging in for facts because I just don't trust the media to give it to me straight. But I do see your point. There's a similar issue with people who dislike (hate) the President who believe everything the left-leaning media says. Unfortunately the days of Walter Cronkite aren't coming back any time soon, I don't think.

 

[Spooner st]

I'm days late to the game on this one, but why is the mortality rate on the low side?

Look at the numbers.

 

[bp13]

At risk for outing myself here on a MA based board, I may be as fiscally conservative and driven as they come, but I just can't see a world where we are responsibly opening up public places again in two weeks.

Especially seeing where cases were last week, compared to this week, and where we think they'll be next week. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that 3 weeks from now is the peak of this thing for this season in the most impacted areas like NYC. We haven't even really seen the outbreak hit middle America yet in full force, but that's certainly coming as well.

I'm also no economist, but if a large % of the country is sick and a substantial % of people are dying(the ones with the most money), that ain't good for the economy either.

Here's a question I've had that I haven't seen answered anywhere.

Has any medical expert opined on the percentage of CV deaths of people who wouldn't have died from the flu given their age/health conditions?

 

[Scotto74]

I don’t understand though. How are prestigious members of the medical community (far from pill pushing doctors) saying we should stay home to prevent people from getting sick going to benefit the pharmaceutical industry/shady doctors?

Because they are still part of the medical community. The more money the medical community makes the more money the prestigious members of that community make. its really pretty simple.

 

[Spooner st]

WTF happened to this guy? he's looking to go from a habs fan to a bruins fan?

Lol

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Because they are still part of the medical community. The more money the medical community makes the more money the prestigious members of that community make. its really pretty simple.

I’ll try again:

How does medical experts telling everyone to stay home so less people get sick benefit the for-profit medical community?

 

[Gordon Lightfoot]

I definitely see that side of it. I'm big on digging in for facts because I just don't trust the media to give it to me straight. But I do see your point. There's a similar issue with people who dislike (hate) the President who believe everything the left-leaning media says. Unfortunately the days of Walter Cronkite aren't coming back any time soon, I don't think.

Oof, this is a hard one. All I can say without getting into trouble is that I don’t like when I see things and then am told that I didn’t see them. Makes it hard to build trust.

 

[LouJersey]

At risk for outing myself here on a MA based board, I may be as fiscally conservative and driven as they come, but I just can't see a world where we are responsibly opening up public places again in two weeks.

Especially seeing where cases were last week, compared to this week, and where we think they'll be next week. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that 3 weeks from now is the peak of this thing for this season in the most impacted areas like NYC. We haven't even really seen the outbreak hit middle America yet in full force, but that's certainly coming as well.

I'm also no economist, but if a large % of the country is sick and a substantial % of people are dying(the ones with the most money), that ain't good for the economy either.

The regime is counting on my kids to blow all their inheritance money on a summer home and fancy sports cars when the virus kills me and their mother from the relaxing of the rules.

 

[member 96824]

the same medical experts that over-perscribed opioids for years for nothing but the money. This time we should put 100% faith in them that it will be all about what is best for us and money will not play a factor?

as the saying goes fool me once shame on me fool me twice....

bruh this ain't it. Pretty sure we all know that when people are talking about the "medical community" in regards to COVID-19, they're talking about experts in infectious diseases, epidemiologists etc...not the local family doctor that asks you to turn your head and cough once a year.

 

[bp13]

Look at the numbers.

So if I use the US and take out the outlier of the state of Washington, I get a national mortality rate of 1.1%.

And if we are admitting an unknown number of people have it who've never tested, then the mortality rate is in fact lower. What am I missing?

 

[Glove Malfunction]

Different numbers come out every day, a lot of people in the US and Canada had lingering flu symptoms in Dec ,it may have been the virus.

Without the serological testing for antibodies that @Bruinfanatic mentioned in his (her? Don't want to assume) post above, we'll never know. If that study is even close to accurate, and less than one in a thousand get sick enough to need hospitalization, then it's both far more widespread than we fear, but also far less virulent than currently believed. Not sure how to reconcile those two things.

 

[Kate08]

Here's a question I've had that I haven't seen answered anywhere.

Has any medical expert opined on the percentage of CV deaths of people who wouldn't have died from the flu given their age/health conditions?

Here's the issue with the flu comparisons. It doesn't have anything to do with would a COVID-19 fatality have died from X anyways, it has to do with overwhelming a taxed healthcare system with people who DON'T die or SHOULDN'T have died.

I'm much more concerned with the infection numbers than the fatalities. Maybe that's a weird way to look at it.

 

[member 96824]

Here's a question I've had that I haven't seen answered anywhere.

Has any medical expert opined on the percentage of CV deaths of people who wouldn't have died from the flu given their age/health conditions?

Haven't seen an exact study but didn't Dr. Fauci today say it's close to 10x? I only saw it in passing so don't quote me on that.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Haven't seen an exact study but didn't Dr. Fauci today say it's close to 10x? I only saw it in passing so don't quote me on that.

10x is the best estimate right now.

It spreads exponentially quicker (no community immunity) and is 10x deadlier.

I don’t understand what the f*** else people need to stop saying “it’s a flu bug”. Willful ignorance at its finest.

It’s the novel strain of the virus. Could it start to mimic the flu if it becomes an annual virus? Yes. But right now, it is a novel strain. That is worlds apart from anything that already exists in terms of danger.

 

[Bruinfanatic]

Without the serological testing for antibodies that @Bruinfanatic mentioned in his (her? Don't want to assume) post above, we'll never know. If that study is even close to accurate, and less than one in a thousand get sick enough to need hospitalization, then it's both far more widespread than we fear, but also far less virulent than currently believed. Not sure how to reconcile those two things.

His Lol Yeah that’s what the Dr. had said they needed to do more serological testing.

 

[Scotto74]

I’ll try again:

How does medical experts telling everyone to stay home so less people get sick benefit the for-profit medical community?

your point was that we should listen to the medical community and believe what they tell us because its since. I am pointing out a situation where the medical community as a whole for years told us that something was good for us when it was not even though it was science. I will not put 100% faith in a community that is still a entity that needs to be profitable to tell me what is best. I take everything with a grain of salt.

the political class tells you what is best from their view

the medical community tells you what is best from their view

I don't think either one is 100% truthful about everything and you should take all points of view into account.

You want to put 100% faith into everything the Science says that is fine. yet that data is changing every single day. last week the science said the virus lives for a few days today there is an article that they found the virus on a cruise ship that lived for 17 days.

also I always believe if there is money to be made for the medical community as a whole you will never hear the entire truth.

also the goal of people staying home is to flatten the curve so people get sick over a longer period of time to reduce the strain on our medical facilities not to lower the number of people that will get sick. That is a hope of what will happen but not the goal of flatten the curve.

i need to get some more work done so i am out of this convo for the time being. you can believe the medical people are being 100% honest and telling you everything I am not built that way as no one tells the truth to the general public 100%.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

It was most certainly here in January but we won't know this for certain until the serological testing has been created and put into use.

Even when we get the test, the question becomes who should be tested?

Right now, our focus should be getting to the point where we can test everyone now for the virus.

Not sure what is involved in serological testing, or how long after virus introduction before antibodies appear in significant enough numbers to be detected, but if it can be done from samples currently being drawn from routine labs, without the need for additional blood draws, we should start doing this testing immediately, to get as much data as possible, as soon as possible. I wouldn't even be opposed to drawing another vial from patients who are already getting blood drawn, in order to get a head start on the testing and data collection. Don't think we need to be at the point yet of collecting specimens only for serological testing.

 

[bp13]

Here's the issue with the flu comparisons. It doesn't have anything to do with would a COVID-19 fatality have died from X anyways, it has to do with overwhelming a taxed healthcare system with people who DON'T die or SHOULDN'T have died.

I'm much more concerned with the infection numbers than the fatalities. Maybe that's a weird way to look at it.

Fair, and I totally understand that. It's a major issue. That said, you're talking about taxing a key aspect of our society, our healthcare capability. On the flip side, we are currently severely taxing our economy, meaning jobs will be lost, folks will slip into poverty who weren't yesterday, and general health of a lot of folks will decrease as a result of the pending recession/depression. So that will tax the healthcare system as well. Are we considering all of that fairly?

 

[Scotto74]

Here's the issue with the flu comparisons. It doesn't have anything to do with would a COVID-19 fatality have died from X anyways, it has to do with overwhelming a taxed healthcare system with people who DON'T die or SHOULDN'T have died.

I'm much more concerned with the infection numbers than the fatalities. Maybe that's a weird way to look at it.

Thats the entire point of the stay in place. flatten the curve to not overwhelm the system. I am seeing it the same as you are.

 

[Spooner st]

So if I use the US and take out the outlier of the state of Washington, I get a national mortality rate of 1.1%.

And if we are admitting an unknown number of people have it who've never tested, then the mortality rate is in fact lower. What am I missing?

It would make the US death rate better than Korea which have one of the better percentage in the world. Korea was at the forefront of testing, which have you detected the virus at the earliest and minimizing deaths and critical cases . The total opposite of the US...

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

your point was that we should listen to the medical community and believe what they tell us because its since. I am pointing out a situation where the medical community as a whole for years told us that something was good for us when it was not even though it was science. I will not put 100% faith in a community that is still a entity that needs to be profitable to tell me what is best. I take everything with a grain of salt.

the political class tells you what is best from their view

the medical community tells you what is best from their view

I don't think either one is 100% truthful about everything and you should take all points of view into account.

You want to put 100% faith into everything the Science says that is fine. yet that data is changing every single day. last week the science said the virus lives for a few days today there is an article that they found the virus on a cruise ship that lived for 17 days.

also I always believe if there is money to be made for the medical community as a whole you will never hear the entire truth.

also the goal of people staying home is to flatten the curve so people get sick over a longer period of time to reduce the strain on our medical facilities not to lower the number of people that will get sick. That is a hope of what will happen but not the goal of flatten the curve.

i need to get some more work done so i am out of this convo for the time being. you can believe the medical people are being 100% honest and telling you everything I am not built that way as no one tells the truth to the general public 100%.

You’re just generalizing everyone and everything for the sake of keeping up an ignorant argument. One in which you refuse to answer even a basic question because you realize what you said isn’t logical.

If you really have logic and belief behind what you said, answering “how does medical experts saying folks should stay home and not get sick help the for-profit medical industry?” should be very simple. But it isn’t. Because it makes no sense.

And yes, we are looking to slow the rate of infection to not overwhelm supplies and hospitals. Once again...how does this help the for-profit medical industry?

You have a theory which you yourself can’t even back up. You’re just sticking with your story based on pure stubbornness.

And if some pharmaceutical giant was giving advice, of course I’d be extremely skeptical. But that’s not what this is. Your blanketing of “the medical community” for the sake of an under researched, simplistic argument is ridiculous.