Speculation: All Tavares talk here

DaleCooper

NEVER 4GET
Aug 2, 2005
7,793
118
Brooklyn
www.jonathanhawkins.net

JCLA

Registered User
Feb 23, 2017
1,026
4,236
3. Have a star. This is the other way to get on national TV and be the focus of NHL marketing efforts. Eric Staal was close to this, if he had continued to punch out 100-point seasons, but he didn’t. No one on the current roster has that potential. It would take, say, a John Tavares trade to do it.

This take makes absolutely no sense to me.

Tavares: 54, 67, 81, 47, 66, 86, 70 66

His numbers aren't even close to staals prime numbers here.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
48,128
96,837
This take makes absolutely no sense to me.

Tavares: 54, 67, 81, 47, 66, 86, 70 66

His numbers aren't even close to staals prime numbers here.

Actually, when you look at overall league scoring and PPG numbers, Tavares does compare to Staal in terms of scoring.

Tavares entered the league in 2009. Ignoring the strike shortened lockout season (which was a bit of an anomaly, but both Staal and Tavares did well 53pts vs. 47pts), here are their numbers from 09/10 through 14/15 (before Staal really tailed off in his last season)

Staal: 389 GP, 331 PTS (0.85 PPG)
Tavares: 384 GP, 354 PTS (0.92 PPG)

If you just take their entire career up through 14/15 (again, ignoring the lockout shortened season), it's Staal with a slight advantage of 0.92 PPG vs. 0.91 PPG for Tavares. Then you take into account the NHL. In 05/06 the average goals / GP was 2.93. By the time Tavares entered the league, that had dropped to 2.66 (9% drop) and now it's 2.51 (a 14% drop).
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
48,128
96,837
I did a 2nd look at this and divided PPG by NHL average G/GP to try to normalize this to league wide scoring. Here's how Staal and Tavares stack up. Eric Staal in his prime (05/06 - 14/15) vs. Tavares in his prime (09/10 - 16/17) look very similar. Including the lockout shortened season:

Staal: 0.929 PPG --> 0.351 PPG / Average NHL G/GP during that time
Tavares: 0.915 PPG --> 0.356 PPG / Average NHL G/GP during that time

Staal's 100 point season, which was clearly an anomaly, is a big swinger in these numbers.
 

JCLA

Registered User
Feb 23, 2017
1,026
4,236
Actually, when you look at overall league scoring and PPG numbers, Tavares does compare to Staal in terms of scoring.

Tavares entered the league in 2009. Ignoring the strike shortened lockout season (which was a bit of an anomaly, but both Staal and Tavares did well 53pts vs. 47pts), here are their numbers from 09/10 through 14/15 (before Staal really tailed off in his last season)

Staal: 389 GP, 331 PTS (0.85 PPG)
Tavares: 384 GP, 354 PTS (0.92 PPG)

If you just take their entire career up through 14/15 (again, ignoring the lockout shortened season), it's Staal with a slight advantage of 0.92 PPG vs. 0.91 PPG for Tavares. Then you take into account the NHL. In 05/06 the average goals / GP was 2.93. By the time Tavares entered the league, that had dropped to 2.66 (9% drop) and now it's 2.51 (a 14% drop).

I'm talking first 8 years in the league, not from when Tavares entered the league.

and even if you want to make the argument that his numbers are the same as Staal's, it still makes DeCock's take a stupid comparison.

and If we want to look at first 8 years we have to remove a year from staal because of tavares lock out short year, lets take the 100 point year because it's an anomaly like you said. Staal is at 474 and tavares is at 440. Add tavares lock out year and you're at 487. That's Staal at 474 without a year and tavares at 474 with half a year more.
 
Last edited:

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
48,128
96,837
I'm talking first 8 years in the league, not from when Tavares entered the league.

Eric Staal's 1st 8 years in the league: 0.894 PPG ---> 0.335 PPG / NHL GPG Average: Total 574 points in 642 games

John Tavares's 1st 8 years in the league: 0.914 PPG ---> 0.356 PPG / NHL GPG Average: Total 537 points in 587 games

and even if you want to make the argument that his numbers are the same as Staal's, it still makes DeCock's take a stupid comparison.

Fair enough, I was only commenting on and adding context to your statement that said "His numbers aren't even close to staals prime numbers here."
 
Last edited:

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
48,128
96,837
and If we want to look at first 8 years we have to remove a year from staal because of tavares lock out short year, lets take the 100 point year because it's an anomaly like you said. Staal is at 474 and tavares is at 440. Add tavares lock out year and you're at 487. That's Staal at 474 without a year and tavares at 474 with half a year more.

No doubt Staal was more of an iron man than Tavares, I'm not denying that and it definitely comes into play when looking at total points. Just that your statement that "his numbers aren't even close to a prime staal" was a very misleading statement because 1) you weren't accounting for scoring rate, only totals (which is fine, but only tells part of the story) and 2) more importantly, the NHL was a much higher scoring league in Staal's prime than today.
 

GoldiFox

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
13,287
32,030
JMO, Tavares is a significantly better player than Eric Staal in all 3 zones. In the past, present, and future.
 

JCLA

Registered User
Feb 23, 2017
1,026
4,236
No doubt Staal was more of an iron man than Tavares, I'm not denying that and it definitely comes into play when looking at total points. Just that your statement that "his numbers aren't even close to a prime staal" was a very misleading statement because 1) you weren't accounting for scoring rate, only totals (whicch is fine) and 2) more importantly, the NHL was a much higher scoring league in Staal's prime than today.

I'll take points over points per game.
 

JCLA

Registered User
Feb 23, 2017
1,026
4,236
Eric Staal had his best years in the "we call interference" era of the NHL. He was basically playing with a juiced puck.

Fair point as well, but all i was really trying to say DeCock's statement doesn't make sense.

Guess I shouldn't have said not even close but my point remains about decock
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
48,128
96,837
I'll take points over points per game.

Fine, but you are still completely ignoring the change to the league in your stance.

For instance:

In 05/06, there were 49 players with 70+ points
In 06/07, that dropped to 44
In 09/10, when Tavares entered the league, that dropped to 30
In 15/16, that dropped to 17

I'm not downplaying Staal's achievements, but you can't ignore that his "prime" years came at a time when the league was a much higher scoring league. To say that Tavares, who has a better PPG and only 37 less points in the first 8 years (which he very likely would have gotten if the lockout shortened season was 82 games), isn't close to a prime Staal is just wrong.

Your point about Luke is fair and I'm not arguing that at all.
 

Big Daddy Cane

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 8, 2010
13,187
31,272
Western PA
I find it more useful to compare based on how they fared against their competition. Even though there is significant overlap there, much of Staal's prime was in an era in which being just a PPG scorer wasn't that special. The game has changed over the past decade+.

Raw Scoring Finishes (Seasons 2-8)

Staal - 7, 41, 16, 25, 26, 11, 21
Average = 21

Tavares - 28, 8, 17, 28, 2, 16, 28
Average = ~18

Tavares had the higher peak, but E. Staal was actually more consistent in that respect.

PPG Finishes (Seasons 2-8) (> 41 GP)
Staal - 10, 62, 23, 35, 21, 18, 29
Average = ~28

Tavares - 38, 11, 17, 4, 5, 21, 23
Average = 17

When you adjust for games not played, Tavares comes out ahead in terms of peak and consistency.

Source --> www.nhl.com/stats
 

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
84,902
136,974
Bojangles Parking Lot
I surrender, I surrender

FDAN_LsH1fZh4nDYK_3GvRU42HA=.gif
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->