All Star Team So Far?

[clay]

Because buddy, I've watched all Canada's games, and those stats don't mean a hell of a lot to me. Staal's a rock in his own zone, and has the worst +/- because he gets the toughest assignments. Bourdon, on the other hand, contributes offensively - but he's a defensive liability, despite what the numbers tell you.

I'm a Pens fan, so by rights I should be pimping Letang, who's also been on the ice for 0 goals against and actually put up more points than Bourdon. But Staal has been the class of the tournament on the blueline.

Defensive liability??? Are you kidding me? Bourdon has covered Letang's mistakes just as much as the other way around, which hasn't been many. I can think of two mistakes of Bourdon's which have led to mediocre scoring chances. One on the powerplay, where the puck came to his backhand and was bobbling, leading to a semi-breakaway where Letang read it and was there right away. Another was where Bourdon made a pinch where the puck squeaked by him for a 2 on 1, whereafter Bourdon adjusted himself not to pinch anymore. I can think of at least that many times Bourdon had to cover Letang. Bourdon is a +17 in 13 games in the Q, good for top 20 in the league, while playing only a third of the games as the top players. A +3 as well as being on for 0 opposing goals playing top 4 minutes definately doesn't warrant being labelled as a defensive liability.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

why do people act like staal and parent are the only pairing that play against good forwards? every top pairing does...and just by looking at the stats it seems like a lot of Dmen have done better.

I agree. Just by looking at the stats.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Defensive liability??? Are you kidding me? Bourdon has covered Letang's mistakes just as much as the other way around, which hasn't been many. I can think of two mistakes of Bourdon's which have led to mediocre scoring chances. One on the powerplay, where the puck came to his backhand and was bobbling, leading to a semi-breakaway where Letang read it and was there right away. Another was where Bourdon made a pinch where the puck squeaked by him for a 2 on 1, whereafter Bourdon adjusted himself not to pinch anymore. I can think of at least that many times Bourdon had to cover Letang. Bourdon is a +17 in 13 games in the Q, good for top 20 in the league, while playing only a third of the games as the top players. A +3 as well as being on for 0 opposing goals playing top 4 minutes definately doesn't warrant being labelled as a defensive liability.

I disagree. Don't despair, I don't mean this as an out-and-out dismissal of Bourdon as a prospect - he simply hasn't impressed me at all this year. At. All.

He may still be your mini-Jovo, for better or for worse.

 

[Finkle is Einhorn]

If Bourdon's such a defensive liability, why would he be on in the last minute of the game, and then on for the 4 on 3 in OT? Seems to me you staple defensive liabilities to the bench at that time, not throw them out there with the tournament on the line. If, as it has been stated earlier in this thread, Bourdon is among Canada's worst Dmen, somebody forgot to tell the Canadian coaching staff.

Bourdon has undergone the all too typical HF prospect arc. Hyped to no end until people start to get annoyed, causing his stock to drop until he can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt his worth as a hockey player.

 

[Souffle]

I don't think any of the Canadian forwards have been good enough to be AS. You could argue Downie, if the selection committee also considered pestiness as a quality, but no one else really stood out. Toews had two good games against the US, but wasn't dominant throughout the tourney. No other Canadian forwards are serious candidates at all.

On the other hand, you could make a credible argument for any of Canada's top 5 D. Personally I like Letang, who really impressed me with his defence, transition and poise, but Russell, Bourdon, Staal, even Parent wouldn't be terrible choices. Then again, none of them might make it just because Canada's overall team defence has been so good, and one could argue that the players just played the system.

Anyway, like others, I'll reserve judgment on goaltending until the final. Also, I regret not having seen more of the Russians.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If Bourdon's such a defensive liability, why would he be on in the last minute of the game, and then on for the 4 on 3 in OT? Seems to me you staple defensive liabilities to the bench at the time, not throw them out there with the tournament on the line. If, as it has been stated earlier in this thread, Bourdon is among Canada's worst Dmen, somebody forgot to tell the Canadian coaching staff.

Bourdon has undergone the all too typical HF prospect arc. Hyped to no end until people start to get annoyed, causing his stock to drop until he can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt his worth as a hockey player.

I'm not annoyed, and I've got no axe to grind. Is it conceivable that I simply don't think Bourdon has played well?

He's made poor decisions with the puck on a regular basis, and he doesn't know when to pinch, which have resulted in glorious scoring opportunities for the opposition which could have been easily avoided with a smidgen of hockey sense.

As to why Bourdon was out there during the 4 on 3, I don't know. Maybe Hartsburg figured that with the play likely pinned in their end for the entire penalty, Bourdon would be less likely to meander in the US zone and get caught out of position.

 

[Finkle is Einhorn]

I'm not annoyed, and I've got no axe to grind. Is it conceivable that I simply don't think Bourdon has played well?

He's made poor decisions with the puck on a regular basis, and he doesn't know when to pinch, which have resulted in glorious scoring opportunities for the opposition which could have been easily avoided with a smidgen of hockey sense.

As to why Bourdon was out there during the 4 on 3, I don't know. Maybe Hartsburg figured that with the play likely pinned in their end for the entire penalty, Bourdon would be less likely to meander in the US zone and get caught out of position.

Or, and this just might be a possibility, he trusted him? You don't take chances with defensive liabilities.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Or, and this just might be a possibility, he trusted him? You don't take chances with defensive liabilities.

It is also possible to disagree with a member of Hockey Canada and not be wrong.

From what I saw this tournament, I wouldn't have put Bourdon out there in a critical situation. Thankfully, he didn't go on one of his ill-advised rushes and cost the team. Maybe the gravity of the situation refined his focus.

 

[jaydub*]

I agree. Just by looking at the stats.

Yah, damn numbers don't tell you about heart and moxie!!

Seriously though, it doesn't seem like they have been that good, or else more of the canadian posters would be obsessing over them.

 

[Finkle is Einhorn]

It is also possible to disagree with a member of Hockey Canada and not be wrong.

From what I saw this tournament, I wouldn't have put Bourdon out there in a critical situation. Thankfully, he didn't go on one of his ill-advised rushes and cost the team. Maybe the gravity of the situation refined his focus.

It's certainly possible. But I find that a good rule of thumb when deciding between the opinion of a professional hockey coach and a guy on a messageboard is to give the benefit of the doubt to the pro.

 

[Westcoasthabsfan]

How can a Canada forward (and no D or G) end up on a AST, when the only thing Team Canada as a whole did very well is avoiding goals?!??

But they are playing for the GOLD medal though.....obviously they have done enough scoring...Toews, Russell and Price will be the three selections from Canada on the All Star Team

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It's certainly possible. But I find that a good rule of thumb when deciding between the opinion of a professional hockey coach and a guy on a messageboard is to give the benefit of the doubt to the pro.

If you're so easily swayed, there's not much point in coming onto a message board, now is there?

I suppose Gretzky was right sending all those yobbos to win us gold at the Olympics last year. Silly me, doubting authority like that.

 

[wildone26*]

I agree about the skaters. Not sure about the goalie.

Why is that? What has Price done to not be the obvious choice for all star goalie of the tournament? The fact Varlamov is still being considered at all as the tournaments all star or top goaltender by as many of you as he is is pretty much a joke.

 

[Finkle is Einhorn]

If you're so easily swayed, there's not much point in coming onto a message board, now is there?

I suppose Gretzky was right sending all those yobbos to win us gold at the Olympics last year. Silly me, doubting authority like that.

I'm not easily swayed. I just happen to think you're wrong. However, I don't think Bourdon should be named to the all star team. Whoa, I guess I just formed my own opinion there.

 

[Russian_fanatic]

Bourdon is getting so underrated it's not even funny. Not sure why everyone hates him, but he has been Team Canada's best defenseman, along with Kris Russell. Bourdon has been used in every single situation this year, and has been trusted to be on the ice in pressure situations.

 

[Slick Nick]

Y'all have Toews on your list, but if he hadn't scored 3 for 3 in SO vs the US, or even if he had scored all 3 - 4 including the penalty shot - but Canada had lost, no one would have him on this list... simply because an offensive player tied for 16th in the tournament should not be on that list.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I just wish Makarov had someone less of a pylon than Vasyunov on his line, so a multitude of chances wouldn't go down the drain. While Anisimov has been infinitely better than his Yaroslavl teammate, he is no sugar cookie in terms of converting chances himself.

Wow holy over reacting, Vasyunov looked pretty good in the Sweden game, he tries to do a little too much by himself but that whole line was doing well the whole game. Plus they aren't getting the best amount of icetime.

 

[Panopticon]

Out of the Finns, I don't think Lehtonen should be on the AST. He's skilled for sure, but he's selfish and his point stats are padded with underserved points (one Lindgren goal was credited to Lehtonen and at least one Laakso assist was credited to him also).

If anyone deserves it out of the Finns it's Osala. He's been amazing, but perhaps there are still at least 3 better forwards in the tournament.

Lindgren, maybe, but he's been inconsistent and nowhere to be found in the important games.

Laakso has been great, but the same thing I said about Osala goes for him as well. There has been at least 2 better d-men in this tournament (to me, Russell and E. Johnson).

I'm not that impressed with the "shut-down duo" in the few games I saw them in (the first US-Can and Can-Ger). I just couldn't see it. They (Parent mostly) even had trouble in the Germany game at times and in the US-Can they (Staal mostly) were really disappointing...

 

[Phenomenon]

If anyone deserves it out of the Finns it's Osala. He's been amazing, but perhaps there are still at least 3 better forwards in the tournament.

Without seeing any other than Finland's games I am really surprised, if there are three forwards that have played better than Osala. Lehtonen and Lindgren played a great tournament also, but Osala was the one who had the power and will to make important goals. The best PF performance in those games I've seen.

BTW I wonder why Lindgren did not got assist for the Osala's 3-3-goal in the USA game, because he was the one that stole the puck from the US dman behind the goal. Lehtonen only picked up the loose puck and passed it to Osala. Not that it would change anything, but he'd be the scoring leader of the tournament so far ("real" points 2+7=9).

 

[orcatown]

Funny but I think Parent has been more effective than Staal. He plays a smoother game and seems to cover and move the puck better on the bigger ice surface. Staal seems better suited to the smaller NA rinks. Like how Staal competes and believe he will be a horse in the NHL. However, his lack of agility and quickness shows up a bit when he has a larger area to cover. Also Parent seems more effective in moving puck out of the defensive zone.

Disagree with the comments about undiscipled play by Bourdon. If anything he has errored on the side of making sure he stays back on defense. Is playing the passive style required by the coaches. In some cases I think he backs in too far. Also at certain points he has looked bad because he is required to take the pass away around the net and let Price take the shooter. At times it looks like he is not being aggressive enough around his own net as result. But Euros love to make the extra pass so this seems a good strategy.

Do not see Russell on the All-Star team. If Canada gets defensman on the team believe it will be one of the big four that carry most of the defensive load.

 

[Panopticon]

BTW I wonder why Lindgren did not got assist for the Osala's 3-3-goal in the USA game, because he was the one that stole the puck from the US dman behind the goal. Lehtonen only picked up the loose puck and passed it to Osala. Not that it would change anything, but he'd be the scoring leader of the tournament so far ("real" points 2+7=9).

Laakso is also missing two assists (both second assists, though, so nothing major). The one in the US game that was credited to Lehtonen and also one in either the Czech or Switzerland game where Laakso kept the puck in the zone, passed it to Lehtonen who left it for Osala and Osala scored. I don't remember if that assist was credited for someone else of if there was only one assist on that goal since I don't remember which goal it was.

I imagine this goes for other players on other teams as well, so I'm not complaining. Anyone important (meaning scouts etc.) look beyond the stats anyway. Of course it would be nice to have a Finn as a top scorer or a top scoring defenseman...

Funny but I think Parent has been more effective than Staal. He plays a smoother game and seems to cover and move the puck better on the bigger ice surface. Staal seems better suited to the smaller NA rinks. Like how Staal competes and believe he will be a horse in the NHL. However, his lack of agility and quickness shows up a bit when he has a larger area to cover. Also Parent seems more effective in moving puck out of the defensive zone.

I agree.

 

[Westguy13]

Cherepanov-Toews-Kane
E. Johnson-Parent
Price

 

[Slitty]

Wow holy over reacting, Vasyunov looked pretty good in the Sweden game, he tries to do a little too much by himself but that whole line was doing well the whole game. Plus they aren't getting the best amount of icetime.

The semifinal was his best game, and even then he made me shake my head at some of his decisions. He is one of the few Russian forwards consistantly unable to beat a defender one-on-one at this level, yet that doesn't prevent him from trying more than some of those who can and losing the puck in the process. You must agree that its frustrating to see a player repeatedly skate in a straight line towards the net on an offensive rush with little thought of passing, and then not even attempt a move once he reaches a defender. Unlike Anisimov and Makarov, he is unable to maintain puck possession in the offensive zone and has a harder time cycling the puck along the boards. Moreover, he is substantially weaker defensively, and consequently doesn't kill penalties like Makarov and Anisimov. On the whole he has been largely invisible and a detriment when he does become visible.

 

[helicecopter]

Makarov has made a much larger contribution defensively and is one of Russia's main penalty killers. He has also been far more dangerous offensively; displaying more speed..

My agreement stops here.

..puck poise, and skill than Cherepanov.

Unfortunately, aside from the complete game in the semifinals, i had to rely on highlights as for Russian games..
Makarov is indeed a very pleasant surprise for me, however for how i know Cherepanov i've have an hard time believing he is excedeed by Igor in puck poise.

I just wish Makarov had someone less of a pylon than Vasyunov on his line, so a multitude of chances wouldn't go down the drain.

C'mon, Vasyunov is not a pylon and can score at the junior level at least. Maybe he sucked in the games i only watched through highlights but he didn't in the semifinal (the goal was a very nice shot btw, even if Gistedt was too deep in his net; but most other young European goalkeeper would have done the same and allowed that goal) and anyway i don't think he fits your description here.

Unlike Anisimov and Makarov, he is unable to maintain puck possession in the offensive zone

Disagree.

and has a harder time cycling the puck along the boards. Moreover, he is substantially weaker defensively, and consequently doesn't kill penalties like Makarov and Anisimov.

The fact he is not as good as those other two defensively doesn't mean he doesn't defend at all though.. considering his 'history', in the semifinal his play in his defensive zone looked fair enough to me, actually i was even positively surprised (that's related with expectations of course )

 

[Zim]

My agreement stops here.

Unfortunately, aside from the complete game in the semifinals, i had to rely on highlights as for Russian games..
Makarov is indeed a very pleasant surprise for me, however for how i know Cherepanov i've have an hard time believing he is excedeed by Igor in puck poise.

C'mon, Vasyunov is not a pylon and can score at the junior level at least. Maybe he sucked in the games i only watched through highlights but he didn't in the semifinal (the goal was a very nice shot btw, even if Gistedt was too deep in his net; but most other young European goalkeeper would have done the same and allowed that goal) and anyway i don't think he fits your description here.

Disagree.

The fact he is not as good as those other two defensively doesn't mean he doesn't defend at all though.. considering his 'history', in the semifinal his play in his defensive zone looked fair enough to me, actually i was even positively surprised (that's related with expectations of course )

I'm confused how you make all these points just by looking at highlights?